[QuickTidal]

Terez, on 16 January 2020 - 07:31 PM, said:

What's to disagree with? What's better about delaying after they have voted and the role of the House is formally finished?

I've already said there is no use getting into it with you. You have your feelings about it, and nothing I say is about to change that I expect. Shrug.

Abyss, on 16 January 2020 - 07:38 PM, said:

Still laughing at Trump Jr denying knowing Hyde after appearing in a photo op with the guy about a week ago.

As an offshoot of this, the best bit about Parnas is him stating that every time Trump (or someone around him) claims to not know him, he will post a different photo of them together. LMAO. Receipts.

This already happened after Kelly-Anne Skeletor tried to claim she didn't know Parnas on CNN hill she lamely tried to argue with Cuomo....and twitter was on the ball with a photo of the two of them together, faces touching.

This administration loves to use the "Never heard of them/I don't know them" defence, but apparently they've all forgotten that cameras exist.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 16 January 2020 - 07:51 PM, said:

Terez, on 16 January 2020 - 07:31 PM, said:

What's to disagree with? What's better about delaying after they have voted and the role of the House is formally finished?

I've already said there is no use getting into it with you. You have your feelings about it, and nothing I say is about to change that I expect. Shrug.

Abyss, on 16 January 2020 - 07:38 PM, said:

Still laughing at Trump Jr denying knowing Hyde after appearing in a photo op with the guy about a week ago.

As an offshoot of this, the best bit about Parnas is him stating that every time Trump (or someone around him) claims to not know him, he will post a different photo of them together. LMAO. Receipts.

This already happened after Kelly-Anne Skeletor tried to claim she didn't know Parnas on CNN hill she lamely tried to argue with Cuomo....and twitter was on the ball with a photo of the two of them together, faces touching.

This administration loves to use the "Never heard of them/I don't know them" defence, but apparently they've all forgotten that cameras exist.

Thankfully we haven't gotten too deep into the era of deepfakes yet (and Trump's people haven't afaik started trying to claim that everything negative for them is photoshopped and/or maintain that doctored images are legitimate... well, just verbal "images").

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 January 2020 - 07:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 16 January 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

Thankfully we haven't gotten too deep into the era of deepfakes yet (and Trump's people haven't afaik started trying to claim that everything negative for them is photoshopped and/or maintain that doctored images are legitimate... well, just verbal "images").

I will admit I've been afraid they would go there sooner rather than later.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 16 January 2020 - 08:17 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 16 January 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

Thankfully we haven't gotten too deep into the era of deepfakes yet (and Trump's people haven't afaik started trying to claim that everything negative for them is photoshopped and/or maintain that doctored images are legitimate... well, just verbal "images").

I will admit I've been afraid they would go there sooner rather than later.

I suspect the plethora of willing witnesses to the contrary prevents that. Call it a fake and when the guy who took the pic steps forward with two other people who were standing there, they look worse.

And why deny it when the masses will do it for them? ...you know the usual genii are posting
'how could he remember everyone he's met for ten seconds to take a selfie with?!'.

[Malankazooie]

Things gonna get spicy today. You guys firmly placed your hands on each cheek and holding on tight?

[Cause]

It’s actually just frustrating. No matter what they find it seems to prove what half is already know and get ignored by the half who can see no evil!

Trump could write a signed confession and it seems the senate would just say he is trolling.

I’m honestly perplexed why so many people love Trump and why so many republicans cling to him and his base.

The more I learn about America the more I realize that it’s politics are essentially frozen and it’s falling further and further behind in establishing some simple and desperately needed reforms like minimum leave for workers, maternity leave, some basic welfare social nets.

——————————

Am I crazy or is not time for some of the front runnering Democrats to join forces and guarantees the win. Maybe they are too far palpate but what about a Biden president and Bernie I president combo? Or more closely aligned Bernie and warrens. They differ only in agrees. Wouldn’t doing that join their support based and give them overwhelming support?

Is it pride that stops it (frankly this many candidates remains an error) or is there some strategic thinking behind this where the candidates are too far apart ideologically, or there would be backlash?

———————-/

Bernie sanders is Jewish right? I don’t say it ever mentioned either but can a Jew really get the presidency? How would the white power or the evangelical block take this? It seems as big an obstacle that a Jew should be president as that a black man or a woman should win. America takes its Christianity seriously!

This post has been edited by Cause: 21 January 2020 - 06:42 PM

[Obdigore]

Wow is that post a lot to unpack.

First of all, yes you are apparently crazy. Biden and Bernie would be in two very different parties in the rest of the Western World. There is no such thing as a 'president combo'. Bernie and Warren are actually both very far apart as well. Warren doesn't really care about LGBTQ rights or social safety nets, her big thing is breaking up the banks to try to make the full on capitalist economy 'better'.

The fact that you think they are actually very close shows you aren't quite as plugged in to this as you think you are.

Secondly, ignoring the racist underpinnings of your question - why do you think the white power evangelical (note: this is the same voter bloc, not two different ones) would ever vote for any one who they don't view as just like them (protip - that means white old men on top of white old men, but in a totally friendly and completely non gay way, because thats icky, apparently)? The entire point is that the 'third way' democrats don't have what it takes to beat a demagogue of ridiculous proportions, like trump. The third way democrats continue to prove their ideas fail, and that attempting to compromise with a group who can't compromise doesn't fucking work.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 21 January 2020 - 07:56 PM

[Malankazooie]

Caught a little bit of trial highlights during lunch break. Damn, it's weird to see Chief Justice John Roberts in this setting.

[Cause]

I was specifically asking about the racist or religious undertones about my question. I don’t understand what you mean by ignoring. I’m genuinely asking. What percentage of America would be comfortable voting for a Jewish president. Would the evangelical block lose their mind or would they be happy with a Jewish president?

I genuinely believe that a president couldn’t not be an open atheist and survive American politics. Even trump who I think doesn’t have a religious bone in his body tries to ape religious thoughts and feelings as required .

Also I know that Bernie and Biden are miles apart but politics is the art of compromise and America’s first past the post voting system has led to the mathematically inevitable conclusion of a two party state. You can’t get what you want so you have to vote for the least unappealing option. Either democrats or republicans. Maybe Biden with a sprinkling of Bernie in his ear is better than just a straight up Biden to many voters?

This post has been edited by Cause: 21 January 2020 - 10:48 PM

[Terez]

You're Jewish aren't you, Cause?

[amphibian]

The people who wouldn't vote for a Jewish person or a woman would almost certainly not vote for any of the Democrats. So it's more about whether Bernie or Warren can connect to people in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, and another toss up state. They will win California, NY, and so on by default. The Republican candidate will win their states by default too.

A ton of this is built by our shitty electoral system that does winner take all. If that wasn't a thing, it'd be massively more important to campaign everywhere.

[Cause]

Terez, on 22 January 2020 - 02:23 AM, said:

You're Jewish aren't you, Cause?

Yes I am.

[Terez]

That's what I thought. tbh, I think it's mostly a non-factor. There are definitely a lot of antisemites in the US, but for the most part, the Republican Party these days is very protective of Jews and Israel in particular. It's part of their party platform and they feel very strongly about it. The populist crossover that Bernie is reaching apparently does not have a problem with him being Jewish, in some cases perhaps because he is sort of an anti-Zionist Jew.

I don't know why anyone would think that Warren doesn't care about the safety net when her entire career has been dedicated to studying it and has written books about it. Just because she understands finance well enough to address the problems that cause people to need the safety net in the first place doesn't mean she doesn't care about the safety net. It just means she's better equipped to address the problem of financial insecurity overall.

I'm so tired of Bernie Bros. I feel like they all live in some kind of alternate reality echo chamber.

[amphibian]

Terez, on 22 January 2020 - 02:48 AM, said:

That's what I thought. tbh, I think it's mostly a non-factor. There are definitely a lot of antisemites in the US, but for the most part, the Republican Party these days is very protective of Jews and Israel in particular. It's part of their party platform and they feel very strongly about it. The populist crossover that Bernie is reaching apparently does not have a problem with him being Jewish, in some cases perhaps because he is sort of an anti-Zionist Jew.

I don't know why anyone would think that Warren doesn't care about the safety net when her entire career has been dedicated to studying it and has written books about it. Just because she understands finance well enough to address the problems that cause people to need the safety net in the first place doesn't mean she doesn't care about the safety net. It just means she's better equipped to address the problem of financial insecurity overall.

I'm so tired of Bernie Bros. I feel like they all live in some kind of alternate reality echo chamber.

The Evangelical wing of the Republican party is protective of Israel because they believe in a Christian future for that area. It's real wing nut stuff.

They likely still won't vote for a Jewish person though.

[Terez]

I think for most of them, that's not true. They voted for a Mormon, after all. But it doesn't really matter; Bernie is so far left that none of them would vote for him anyway. Most of them wouldn't vote for the more moderate Democratic candidates either. Bernie appeals to a lot of Trump voters, but that's the populist crossover I mentioned earlier. Many of those people are at least a little anti-semitic. I have a lot of Jewish folks on my politics list on Twitter (partly thanks to the lawtwitter pals I picked up during the Vic Mignogna lawsuit; the others are mostly journalists) and there have been a lot of complaints about anti-semitism from Bernie Bros. It's mostly anti-Zionism but for a lot of them that's a distinction without a difference. (I don't feel like I know enough about the Israel-Palestine conflict to have an opinion.)

[amphibian]

It's pretty easy to recognize that Israel has been pursuing a policy of apartheid for decades and that a two state solution needs to happen in addition to the removing of the ultra Orthodox settlers from Palestinian land.

[Vengeance]

amphibian, on 22 January 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

It's pretty easy to recognize that Israel has been pursuing a policy of apartheid for decades and that a two state solution needs to happen in addition to the removing of the ultra Orthodox settlers from Palestinian land.

I say leave the Orthodox settlers in the new Palestinian state and tell them that they need to deal with the legal government of Palestine.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 22 January 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

It's pretty easy to recognize that Israel has been pursuing a policy of apartheid for decades and that a two state solution needs to happen in addition to the removing of the ultra Orthodox settlers from Palestinian land.

Equally easy to recognize the primary reason for this is a series of Palestinian governments and power-structures run by terrorists who have zero desire or motive to promote anything but a state of war with Israel. ...because if you're going to cast the one stone, throw the other too. South Africa and Israel are not the same. Israel is far from blameless in the mess, but invoking South Africa by way of 'apartheid' is far from accurate.

The two-state solution is a very trite answer that assumes significant chunks of people on both sides can be told their feelings, histories, whatever, are irrelevant. And between the Orthodox settlers who are dead certain they are obeying glowing-God-in-the-sky's commands, and the Palestinians who demand the 'right of return' to a country they never had , want to guess which side will resume sending their kids to blow themselves up in bus stations?

[Garak]

My guess is both. Neither side will back down when push comes to shove and there's always some tosser willing to push.

[Cause]

Well that was worth a chuckle

So any good insights on impeachment? I believe that there is still a chance to call witnesses but given that they decided to vote against witnesses as part of the rules I don’t know why they would change their minds later. Thing is truly ridiculously.

No sign of some of the republicans breaking ranks as speculated.