[Aptorian]

 Cause, on 12 January 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

I think its a sad indictment on the wierd divide in american politics of republican vs democrat that allowed him to be elected.

I don't think you're wrong but I think the driving force between his popularity and why the republican voters chose him over other candidates, is that he's a dark horse. It's the unconventional, crazy antics that made a lot of people vote for him because even though he's a nutball it's a welcome change from the cookie cutter political template, who wears a nice suit, has an American flag on his lapel and loves America and his 2.3 kids and is always lying through his teeth.

Think about his threats of taxing companies that open factories outside America. The lower/middle class will eat that shit up. Who cares if he's unbecoming of the oval office, he's doing things that the public like. Put a bit of spin on it and he looks like the American savior.

God, I'm going to love the next 4 years.

This post has been edited by Apt: 12 January 2017 - 11:17 AM

[Cause]

 Apt, on 12 January 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

 Cause, on 12 January 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

I think its a sad indictment on the wierd divide in american politics of republican vs democrat that allowed him to be elected.

I don't think you're wrong but I think the driving force between his popularity and why the republican voters chose him over other candidates, is that he's a dark horse. It's the unconventional, crazy antics that made a lot of people vote for him because even though he's a nutball it's a welcome change from the cookie cutter political template, who wears a nice suit, has an American flag on his lapel and loves America and his 2.3 kids and is always lying through his teeth.

Think about his threats of taxing companies that open factories outside America. The lower/middle class will eat that shit up. Who cares if he's unbecoming of the oval office, he's doing things that the public like. Put a bit of spin on it and he looks like the American savior.

God, I'm going to love the next 4 years.

That's it exactly though. He seems almost like an independent candidate who managed to co-opt the republican voter base. So much of the republican leadership seemed to hate him at one point and they really seemed opposed to him being their candidate but they seemed to feel they could not fight the voters (understandable). Still it seems to me on the outside that so many people vote republican because they see themselves as republican and that's what republicans do. I understand how the american democratic system has mathematically enforced a two party state but its scary to see the real world effects of this. Even in my own country I know of Hillary supporters who support her because and trump supporters who support him because. Because what? I have no idea and neither do they. Its remarkably us vs them.

[amphibian]

He's not going to tax companies that open up factories outside the US in any additional way though. Besides, most of the factory jobs are gone from the US. What's interesting is that the employment rate is very very low already. Most of the jobs are not good jobs, but how is he going to create much better jobs, switch everyone over, and keep the same or more people employed? That's one of the biggest magic acts in history.

There's only been one other time in US history where that happened - the New Deal Programs by FDR during the end of the Great Depression. Guess what? That required massive debt spending by the government (and resulted in massive infrastructure improvements as well), which Trump and the Republican Congress have promised not to do.

[worry]

This was tops.

[HoosierDaddy]

I got off work early and was watching this. It was emotional to say the least; had me teary.

However, my favorite story was Jill Biden hiding in an overhead compartment to scare staff. That's just fucking hilarious.

[Cause]

 death rattle, on 12 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

This was tops.

Interesting. I dont know Biden well enough to say if he deserves it one way or the other but it comes across to me as a little nepotistic. He has the authority to give the medal at his own discretion? And he gave it to a close friend and colleague. As I say I am not familiar with Bidens record but it places the medal in a strange light for me.

[worry]

Joe Biden has had an extraordinary career in public service, and has largely fought the good fight. He's not without blemish -- he's had several Old-White-Guy moments where he's put his foot in his mouth, and his treatment of Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas hearing is genuinely pretty damning (a lot of people haven't forgiven him for that, and I can't blame them) -- but within a history of generally solid policy positions he's also responsible for one of the most important pieces of legislation in American history: the Violence Against Women Act, which has a pretty simple direct title but extends into so many walks of life and has done untold good for so many.

[amphibian]

Biden is also one of the few politicians who never used his position to make money. I think he was still paying a mortgage on his not-opulent house when Obama picked him as VP.

He's made mistakes, but he and his family have been actual forces of good for the average person here. He tended to be more progressive than Obama the president and certainly more progressive than Bill Clinton, yet to the right of Bernie and the actual progressive wing.

[Terez]

I've not been paying attention to this thread since the election aftermath because it's fucking depressing, but I'm trying to do my civic duty now so I'm back.

Fuck.

[Nicodimas]

@ Terrz : I really think he's going to be a great president! He has the ability to single handily go after a whole set of different issues. I love the way he is dealing with all the bs that goes his way. I'm honestly hoping he just does a top/down budget analysis and really starts tearing through all the wasteful spending. I guess we will see...



Also did you guys see this light read. As sci-fi/ prepper fan it's cool to see them address this. Makes me sleep better at night knowing they are in fact thinking this way....sounds to be like we do have preppers in govt roles--> always be prepared.

https://www.whitehou...ategy_final.pdf

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 13 January 2017 - 03:58 PM

[Primateus]

 Nicodimas, on 13 January 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

@ Terrz : I really think he's going to be a great president! He has the ability to single handily go after a whole set of different issues. I love the way he is dealing with all the bs that goes his way. I'm honestly hoping he just does a top/down budget analysis and really starts tearing through all the wasteful spending. I guess we will see...

You're not worried about the quagmire of people he's putting on his cabinet? Some of whom literally scream "conflict of interest"

[Terez]

I mean, he's barreling us full force toward outright oligarchy. It's scary as fuck. Worse than I expected, and I did not expect good things.

[Tapper]

 amphibian, on 12 January 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

He's not going to tax companies that open up factories outside the US in any additional way though. Besides, most of the factory jobs are gone from the US. What's interesting is that the employment rate is very very low already. Most of the jobs are not good jobs, but how is he going to create much better jobs, switch everyone over, and keep the same or more people employed? That's one of the biggest magic acts in history.

There's only been one other time in US history where that happened - the New Deal Programs by FDR during the end of the Great Depression. Guess what? That required massive debt spending by the government (and resulted in massive infrastructure improvements as well), which Trump and the Republican Congress have promised not to do.

But one, by denying that unemployment is actually as low as it is and floating the figure of 40%, without ever doing anything at all about the economy, he can claim he 'solved' it and cite the correct percentage;
Two, Trump's talked about a significant infrastructure investment, wants to vastly increase military spending (while cutting costs on existing projects to seem 'smart' and a deal-maker), is talking about day care subsidies, and plans trickle down economics through tax cuts. All of those measures see more money pouring out and less coming in, with a debt increase. On top of that, Trump has been talking during the Republican primaries several times about defaulting, as if it was a simple strategic company bankruptcy.

[Aptorian]

 death rattle, on 12 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

This was tops.

I ended up watching the full thing. You can tell that there are many years of mutual respect, love and camaraderie there. Like Amphibian mentioned this smacked a bit of nepotism, but listening to those speeches and seeing the rooms reactions, you could tell that the administration at least felt Biden was worthy of the honor.

I may have shed a few manly tears during a couple times.

[Vengeance]

 Nicodimas, on 13 January 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Also did you guys see this light read. As sci-fi/ prepper fan it's cool to see them address this. Makes me sleep better at night knowing they are in fact thinking this way....sounds to be like we do have preppers in govt roles--> always be prepared.

https://www.whitehou...ategy_final.pdf

Yes we now have a president who along with a bunch of his advisors believe in consparicy theories that have less evidence (vaccinations cause autism) then the russian dosier on Trumps sexual/peeing habits. That does not make me sleep better at night.

[Nicodimas]

@ Terez

At the moment it seems he is doing his damnest to go against the deep state and remove Russia from the war-efforts they so want. We will see if he can go against the people behind the scenes. A branch of peace hopefully gets extended after the Obama/Bush the old guard deep state regime gets pushed aside...We will see he is just one man, but he is definitely playing chess and is not getting the credit that he is due on the stage he has been given.

I'm am pysched to see what positive changes he can inflict in this department. Hopefully the deep state doesn't win and he can empower a different part of old part of making America great again without the deep states Warhawks. However, I see the current stage very different lately.... Let's see if Trump can actually take on the neo-con deep state policy.

Tough call at the moment they are doing everything to subvert him. Russia is not the enemy. Iran is not the enemy. We need to take deep look at the neo-cons and oust them . Make the rest the world believe in America.

On the war on Trump.
https://theintercept...ic-is-deceived/

Let's see how it goes and if Trump can compete against them. Make America great again! He has not to just take them on, but also a unwinding economic policy too. I don't envy Trump he could be a great president, but if he caves............maybe the price of that much power is just falling in line. I don't know .. I'm choosing to believe for now.

@tapper: debt really doesn't matter anymore, we never left the depression. We have had multiple presidents double and triple the debt ( Reagan, Bush, Obama) . We have played the game for so long now.... As long as everyone believes in the fiction we will be fine. We are all in this together now. So in 8 years when Trump is done.... if it's 40 trillion it wouldn't surprise me...

In all honesty, everything will be just fine.

[Vengeance]

 Nicodimas, on 13 January 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

@ Terez

At the moment it seems he is doing his damnest to go against the deep state and remove Russia from the war-efforts they so want. We will see if he can go against the people behind the scenes. A branch of peace hopefully gets extended after the Obama/Bush the old guard deep state regime gets pushed aside...We will see he is just one man, but he is definitely playing chess and is not getting the credit that he is due on the stage he has been given.

I'm am pysched to see what positive changes he can inflict in this department. Hopefully the deep state doesn't win and he can empower a different part of old part of making America great again without the deep states Warhawks. However, I see the current stage very different lately.... Let's see if Trump can actually take on the neo-con deep state policy.

Tough call at the moment they are doing everything to subvert him. Russia is not the enemy. Iran is not the enemy. We need to take deep look at the neo-cons and oust them . Make the rest the world believe in America.

On the war on Trump.
https://theintercept...ic-is-deceived/

Let's see how it goes and if Trump can compete against them. Make America great again! He has not to just take them on, but also a unwinding economic policy too. I don't envy Trump he could be a great president, but if he caves............maybe the price of that much power is just falling in line. I don't know .. I'm choosing to believe for now.

@tapper: debt really doesn't matter anymore, we never left the depression. We have had multiple presidents double and triple the debt ( Reagan, Bush, Obama) . We have played the game for so long now.... As long as everyone believes in the fiction we will be fine. We are all in this together now. So in 8 years when Trump is done.... if it's 40 trillion it wouldn't surprise me...

In all honesty, everything will be just fine.

Yeah he is playing something all right. Roulette with civil rights, women and minority rights and you know ethics and conflicts of interest. Also there is that little thing called rule of law.

So if your fine with a corrupt country being ran by a billionaire class obligatory who basically will wage war on anyone and everyone who disagree's with them. Then welcome to Russia now and American if Trump gets reelected. Which I doubt will happen. I fully expect that the democrates will take back the senate in 2018 and a bunch of house seats then start impeachment preceedings against Trump. He will resign when faced with probable impeachment and Pence will finish out Trumps term and not be reelected. It will be Trumps in ability to seperate himself from his business deals and commercial empire that will do him in.

[Primateus]

 Nicodimas, on 13 January 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

@ Terez

At the moment it seems he is doing his damnest to go against the deep state and remove Russia from the war-efforts they so want. We will see if he can go against the people behind the scenes. A branch of peace hopefully gets extended after the Obama/Bush the old guard deep state regime gets pushed aside...We will see he is just one man, but he is definitely playing chess and is not getting the credit that he is due on the stage he has been given.

I'm am pysched to see what positive changes he can inflict in this department. Hopefully the deep state doesn't win and he can empower a different part of old part of making America great again without the deep states Warhawks. However, I see the current stage very different lately.... Let's see if Trump can actually take on the neo-con deep state policy.

Tough call at the moment they are doing everything to subvert him. Russia is not the enemy. Iran is not the enemy. We need to take deep look at the neo-cons and oust them . Make the rest the world believe in America.

On the war on Trump.
https://theintercept...ic-is-deceived/

Let's see how it goes and if Trump can compete against them. Make America great again! He has not to just take them on, but also a unwinding economic policy too. I don't envy Trump he could be a great president, but if he caves............maybe the price of that much power is just falling in line. I don't know .. I'm choosing to believe for now.

@tapper: debt really doesn't matter anymore, we never left the depression. We have had multiple presidents double and triple the debt ( Reagan, Bush, Obama) . We have played the game for so long now.... As long as everyone believes in the fiction we will be fine. We are all in this together now. So in 8 years when Trump is done.... if it's 40 trillion it wouldn't surprise me...

In all honesty, everything will be just fine.

(emphasis mine)

Where the heck are you getting that from? To pretty much the rest of the world it seems like he's stuffing cabinet positions with supporters instead of actually qualified people. I mean, have you really seen the dregs he's dragged out? Tillerson for secretary of state, the position best qualified to lift sanctions against Russia. What was it he did just mere months ago? Oh, right, he was CEO of Exxon Mobile, an oil company that stands to gain billions of dollars in profits from those sanctions being lifted. I'm sure that's just a coincidence. What about Pruitt for the EPA? A man nominated to run an organization that he has personally sued several times. A man who's not just a skeptic of climate change (which is not necessarily a bad thing) but outright denies its significance.
Steve Bannon? Rick Perry? His own friggin son in law as advisor? Oh sure, he's not going to take a salary, as if that makes it alright? What about General Flynn? A man so bat shit crazy he perpetuated the outright lie that HRC was running a fucking child prostitution ring right out of DC.

You can't seriously believe this is okay?

[worry]

I just don't understand this faith in Trump as a political "chess player". Trump didn't just suddenly arise as a dark horse for the 2016 election. He's been a public figure for 30 years, and a laughing stock for nearly all of them. He's been the poster boy for mindless greed and unearned silver spoon ego as long as I can remember. You'd have to literally wipe your memory of the last three decades of sickening, inherited-wealth-caricature moronitude he's displayed to even start pretending he's suited to any aspect of this job. And as others have said, his ineptitude and -- to be frank -- naked corruption have already shown he has no interest in fighting the good fight on any front.

To translate to paranoia-speak, if he's your chosen warrior against the deep state, you haven't just already lost, you've accelerated doomsday by decades.

[Silencer]

 death rattle, on 13 January 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

I just don't understand this faith in Trump as a political "chess player". Trump didn't just suddenly arise as a dark horse for the 2016 election. He's been a public figure for 30 years, and a laughing stock for nearly all of them. He's been the poster boy for mindless greed and unearned silver spoon ego as long as I can remember. You'd have to literally wipe your memory of the last three decades of sickening, inherited-wealth-caricature moronitude he's displayed to even start pretending he's suited to any aspect of this job. And as others have said, his ineptitude and -- to be frank -- naked corruption have already shown he has no interest in fighting the good fight on any front.

To translate to paranoia-speak, if he's your chosen warrior against the deep state, you haven't just already lost, you've accelerated doomsday by decades.

... Which is what Nico really wants, thus why he's so happy and supportive of Trump?