[amphibian]

EmperorMagus, on 02 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 30 June 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Neat article from a historical plantation tour guide: http://www.vox.com/2...at-a-plantation

AMA by this guy on Reddit.

The tour guide is a woman. Very observant and very, very, very patient.

I'd have flipped my noodle eleventy billion times in the situations she described. Probably fought someone.

[Nicodimas]

Tell me more about Jim Webb..

Good/Bad. Reading more on him now-->

[Nicodimas]

I liked this interview..old..but this is the part that seems important:
http://www.jameswebb...with-james-webb

Quote

No democracy can survive without two things, and we are in danger on both counts. One is a strong public education system, so that no matter where you start, you believe you have the opportunity to make something big of yourself. Second, you cannot have a true democracy if, in times of crisis, only some people are at risk. Every different part of the country, culturally, must be at risk if the nation is at risk.

edit add-->
http://www.nationalj...rouble-20150213

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 02 July 2015 - 07:48 PM

[amphibian]

Nicodimas, on 02 July 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Tell me more about Jim Webb..

Good/Bad. Reading more on him now-->

What you want to look at is his voting record in the US Senate and any bills he may have sponsored. That matters much more than speeches here and there that don't lay out platforms or future goals.

https://www.govtrack...jim_webb/412249

Most of his voting record suggests a very solid, little to the left progressive.

Jeet Heer has a better overview of Webb on his Twitter account (TL;DR - Really impressive person, kinda dismissive of politics itself and already running a bad campaign): https://twitter.com/...713320834338816

This post has been edited by amphibian: 02 July 2015 - 09:04 PM

[Vengeance]

Obdigore, on 02 July 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

So you are trying the US politics thread to a poorly written book about spouse abuse?

I mean that seems a little odd for me.

Try 'A choice between a used douche and a turd sandwich'.

Yeah I didn't like that.

[Terez]

amphibian, on 02 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 02 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 30 June 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Neat article from a historical plantation tour guide: http://www.vox.com/2...at-a-plantation

AMA by this guy on Reddit.

The tour guide is a woman. Very observant and very, very, very patient.

I'd have flipped my noodle eleventy billion times in the situations she described. Probably fought someone.

You should stay away from the flag debates on Southern social media then. I saw an article recently about a study showing that rebel flag supporters are less likely to know basic facts about the Civil War. The study itself was disappointing though. I'd like to see a more detailed study, with better questions. They asked three, one of which asked the participant to identify Sherman by photo. Another was to name as many battles as they could.

[Nicodimas]

Terez, on 04 July 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

amphibian, on 02 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 02 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 30 June 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Neat article from a historical plantation tour guide: http://www.vox.com/2...at-a-plantation

AMA by this guy on Reddit.

The tour guide is a woman. Very observant and very, very, very patient.

I'd have flipped my noodle eleventy billion times in the situations she described. Probably fought someone.

You should stay away from the flag debates on Southern social media then. I saw an article recently about a study showing that rebel flag supporters are less likely to know basic facts about the Civil War. The study itself was disappointing though. I'd like to see a more detailed study, with better questions. They asked three, one of which asked the participant to identify Sherman by photo. Another was to name as many battles as they could.

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south. They should have talked more about it as it never should have come to violence. Could have just let the south go you know?

[Morgoth]

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Terez, on 04 July 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

amphibian, on 02 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 02 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 30 June 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Neat article from a historical plantation tour guide: http://www.vox.com/2...at-a-plantation

AMA by this guy on Reddit.

The tour guide is a woman. Very observant and very, very, very patient.

I'd have flipped my noodle eleventy billion times in the situations she described. Probably fought someone.

You should stay away from the flag debates on Southern social media then. I saw an article recently about a study showing that rebel flag supporters are less likely to know basic facts about the Civil War. The study itself was disappointing though. I'd like to see a more detailed study, with better questions. They asked three, one of which asked the participant to identify Sherman by photo. Another was to name as many battles as they could.

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south. They should have talked more about it as it never should have come to violence. Could have just let the south go you know?

Let them continue treating an entire minority group as property. Sounds like the best plan indeed.

Also, you know that the Confederacy started the war, yes?

[Gorefest]

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south.

Come again?

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 06 July 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south.

Come again?

That last part sounds like a Sheffielder's dream.

[Terez]

Gorefest, on 06 July 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south.

Come again?

Case in point.

This is a common talking point among flag supporters. From what I know of Fort Sumter, it is somewhat debatable even though the secessionists definitely fired the first shots. But I have yet to see anyone actually make the argument. People just repeat what gets handed down to them.

These same people say the flag is about heritage, not hate, but their parents and grandparents left the Democratic Party because of civil rights legislation. Somewhere in the following generations, there is a genuine disconnect. Some people like me grow up and learn the true history of the flag and then wonder why our parents and grandparents never told us the truth.

I have known more racist white people in Mississippi than otherwise. There are plenty of people who are willing to say the n word in the company of whites only who would never display the rebel flag because they know what it means. But they still defend it on social media, and say it's about heritage rather than hate.

[LinearPhilosopher]

[Terez]

BalrogLord, on 06 July 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

1) It is the only commonly recognized flag of the Confederacy, so the distinction is a rather pedantic one, and 2) No one on this thread actually referred to it as "the Confederate flag" so I'm not sure why you posted this here.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Terez, on 06 July 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

BalrogLord, on 06 July 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

1) It is the only commonly recognized flag of the Confederacy, so the distinction is a rather pedantic one, and 2) No one on this thread actually referred to it as "the Confederate flag" so I'm not sure why you posted this here.

it felt relevant. As a curiosity satisfying tangent.

[Morgoth]

Posting youtube videos, and without adding further commentary, in the DB. We have fallen far.

[D'rek]

Morgoth, on 06 July 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Posting youtube videos, and without adding further commentary, in the DB. We have fallen far.

In the DB or out, either way we've been seeing it more and more. Too bad I'm always in the mobile skin or I'd neg-rep it more often to discourage it.

[Terez]

I would have been more annoyed if I hadn't already seen the video. My annoyance was reserved for the non sequitur.

Morgoth, on 06 July 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with the southern flag, people just be crazy. Remember the North Invaded the south. They should have talked more about it as it never should have come to violence. Could have just let the south go you know?

Let them continue treating an entire minority group as property. Sounds like the best plan indeed.

It was slightly more nuanced than that. In other words, this counterargument could be worded better. Slavery still existed in some of the Union states when the war began. The South fought the war to keep slavery. The North fought the war to keep the Southern states in the Union. Slavery was then like any progressive political issue; it had conservatives (keep it) and liberals (change it) in the North and in the South (and the South had far fewer liberals than the North had conservatives). It was that way when the Union was founded, actually; the Enlightenment inspired all sorts of debates about slavery and naturally there were many European countries who depended less on slavery and abolished it before we did. The US was getting there, finally, when the South seceded because they could see abolition coming at the federal level at some uncertain point in the future. But the North saw the war in terms of unity. Only the South saw it in terms of slavery (thinking it necessary to their own freedom).

I have at least 6 Confederate veterans in my ancestry (among my maternal great-grandparents' grandparents). My maternal-maternal great-grandmother was an officer in the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC) and she paid my dues to the Children of the Confederacy (CofC) until I came of age. I got a scholarship to college from the UDC when I first attended in 1996. I was raised with all the Southern myths about the war...but there is some truth in the lore. It doesn't amount to what the Confederate nostalgists tend to claim, but it does give those of us Southerners who broke away from that mold an interesting perspective on the history. People in the North don't pay nearly as much attention to the Civil War as the Confederate nostalgists.

[Nicodimas]

I was trying to find it, but didn't the North try to vote in the 1830's to invade the south? That pushed the south off the edge. I always thought?

Good read:
http://www.san.beck....lnCivilWar.html

anyhow moving along..

[Nicodimas]

I am posting this on a purely academic point, cause History is really interesting in the way in enfolds and trying to visualize you are there..type of point.

Obviously we all know how it went down overall with succession ruled illegal after the war.

[amphibian]

Nicodimas, on 06 July 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

I was trying to find it, but didn't the North try to vote in the 1830's to invade the south? That pushed the south off the edge. I always thought?

Good read:
http://www.san.beck....lnCivilWar.html

anyhow moving along..

That's... not a good read.

Also, what you are thinking of regarding the 1830s vote is the Nullification Crisis in which South Carolina tried to resist imposing federal tariffs within the state. SC went as far as getting ready to use militia force and President Jackson threatened to use the US/federal military to stomp that out. The end result was something along the lines of SC imposing reduced tariffs and no actual military force being authorized by Congress or used by President Jackson.

The reasons why SC objected to the tariff almost all revolve around the tariffs making the slavery business model more expensive by going along with the Brits not buying cotton as much and prioritizing the well-being of Northern machine-made goods over Southern slave-produced goods.

So it's not as simple as "the North tried to big-boy the South over taxes". Slavery was a central focus of massive and vicious debate for decades before the Civil War kicked off.