[Vengeance]

Tapper New thread...

[Terez]

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

worrywort, on 22 September 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

No, not this time, I don't think. She mentioned the blind trust only as part of a longer list of ways Romney typically subverts/exploits tax break opportunities at every chance...it's full of videos and citations, but it's all to bolster the thesis that Romney's 2011 tax returns are singularly atypical for him, and that's because he had to meet the 14% thing. I use commercials as book-reading opportunities.

Ok, so lets back this up a bit. Why is a person who made his money through entrepreneurship instead of being a career politician and stealing his money from the American people, getting so much flack from everyone for using loopholes those career politicians put in place to keep their own pocket-liners happy and continuing to line said pockets?

Romney did not make his money through entrepreneurship at all. He made it by stealing his money from the American people. He uses already-existing businesses as wealth-generators, and it makes little difference to him if the business buckles under the strain. It takes human capital to generate cash flows, and these deals are made with little concern for the health and welfare of the human capital, nor is it concerned with rewarding them for their hard work (something Romney himself has little experience with; I'd give him credit for his campaigns but they're so badly-run I don't think he deserves it). In an underemployment economy, there are always new cash-generating bodies to hire. An entrepreneur is someone who has a good idea and runs with it. Romney was never, ever one of those people.

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I think we should gut the system and start over on how it's all run but since we can't we're stuck with the lesser of two evils and in my honest opinion Romney is better for the US Economy as a whole than Obama ever could claim to be. People who say things like "voucher death board" or whatever don't really know what they're talking about when it comes to healthcare reform, competition is essential for any market to survive along with its consumers and the current system is so rife with corruption and crony-crap that moving in that direction can do nothing but help because Staying the Course does not work with any Social-Support system

Competition is good in some ways, not so much in others. But the truth is that fixed-amount vouchers will force seniors on Medicare to pay as much as $6000 or more a year more on medical care at the outset because the voucher wouldn't fully cover a private plan. If Medicare was anti-competitive, then we'd have a problem, but the truth is that no insurance company wants to cover old people. So I'd say that anyone who brings up competition as an argument for Medicare vouchers has no idea what they're talking about.

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I don't think anyone solely dependant on the Government's social welfare programs of any stripe should be allowed to vote on anything to influence those decisions...it's the same principle as allowing Congress to vote on their own pay increases. (Excluding seniors who have worked their entire lives)

1. Do you have any idea how many people are 'solely dependent' on welfare? In other words, they don't have a job, and the government takes care of them. Reagan's mythical Welfare Queen. Because I can assure you, the number is very small. This came up a lot in this week's 47% debates.

2. Many of the people who truly are solely dependent on the government are disabled veterans. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed to vote? You did say 'of any stripe'.

3. Congress can vote on its own pay increases, but if we had any means of holding our Congressmen accountable, it wouldn't really be a problem. Besides, few Congressmen depend on their salary these days, and that is by far the worst problem.

[Terez]

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Patriarchal societies both religious and secular were very prevelent throughout the world for many different reasons but one of the main reasons it has turned around in American society is because of the advances in medical science that allows child-bearing women to survive past their mid-life unlike back in the earlier stages of civilization. It allowed society to take a step back and realize that the over-protection and down right dominance of females was unnecessary and wrong and that is what led the Republicans to champion the early stages of women's rights. They had a small seperation because Republicans actually decided to focus on getting the rights for AfricanAmericans confirmed before women's suffrage but after that blew over the parties reunited and championed the movement once again.

I love it when GOP voters talk about Republican human rights positions from a century ago and pretend that they are relevant to the party of today. There have been several party systems in American politics, and polar shifts in platforms. The last polar shift happened with the Civil Rights revolution of the mid-20th century. The Deep South voted for FDR three times; now the Deep South thinks the New Deal was horribly socialist.

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

As with anything else though, extreme anything is not good and allowing the extreme left feminism to dominate politics makes it a slightly more touchy subject than it should be. All the outrage over whatever War on Women crap is now being spread is manufactured political garbage dictated by the extremes of both parties.

It's not manufactured political garbage in the sense that there isn't actually a War on Women. Yes, it's being dictated by the extremes of the GOP, but it's very real and has extended to some very stupid legislation.

[Terez]

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Politicians and the current standard for crony-capitalism = stealing from the American Taxpayer. When you have companies that waste Millions and give their CEOs huge bonuses for wasting that money, I don't see it any other way, the fact that the government doesn't have to operate for profit is the only reason it's still around. Politicians who enter public service and then suddenly are flush with cash? Thats not salary based my friend, no matter what they tell you.

I agree with everything here except the bolded bit, which is ridiculous.

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Operating in the private sector at that level for managing interests and such for your own people sometimes requires big decisions that have bad consequences for others, it's true. Companies are in this world to make profits, running one and continuing to do so means you will keep on making profits or else you get fired, that easy so harsh decisions on costs and such make the choices for you sometimes.

There's a lot of BS in that, mostly because corporate executives always protect their own paychecks when it's time to make 'harsh decisions', even if the financial difficulty behind the 'harsh decision' is a result of their own previous decisions. Corporate executives generally have little accountability when it comes to taking responsibility for their bad business decisions, as you noted above. It's not only government contractors.

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I mean, I want someone who knows what he's doing when it comes to financial issues when my economy is so messed up versus someone who comes from the entitlement grabbing side of the tracks. Contrary to the Presidents point of view, the country as a whole does not owe each person their living expenses, limited help and a push in the right direction for those in need I support. Generational Welfare I do NOT.

First up, generational welfare. There is a reason why it exists; it's called low social mobility. If you grow up poor, chances are you won't have a good education, you won't believe in your own ability to succeed, and your obstacles to success will be extreme.

Next up, Obama does not believe that we owe each person their living expenses. That's rightwing garbage talking points.

And finally, if you think Romney's business experience will somehow be helpful in the office of the president, I suggest you read this:

http://www.rollingst...apital-20120829

Romney's business model: rack up a bunch of debt, spend a bunch of money (in Bain's case, management fees and executive bonuses; in this case, tax cuts and unnecessary defense spending, etc.), and then jump ship and stick the business/taxpayer with the bill. Not far different from what W did.

[Terez]

Loving the comments on this Peggy Noonan article:

http://online.wsj.co...pinion_newsreel

Clear example of how so many voters want the media to tell them what they want to hear, and nothing else. They don't want the truth; they want the media to reinforce the fantasy world they live in.

For example:

Quote

Peggy your such a jerk. nice to know your support the current idiot in the white house with your dribble. Please retire..you not such a hot babe any longer.

That quote got 39 recommendations. The highest I've seen so far is 42, most along the same lines, saying WSJ needs to fire her, etc.

This post has been edited by Terez: 23 September 2012 - 06:32 AM

[amphibian]

Peggy Noonan was never a hot babe. Insta-disqualification.

[Terez]

He probably thinks Ann Coulter is the GOP's new hot babe.

[Terez]

Still reading those comments. Pretty scary stuff (and a good example of why the WSJ is barely above middling when it comes to the learning curve):

Quote

Will pray this Yom Kippur that Romney doesn't suffer too much humiliation as he dies a thousand political deaths

Quote

As a Jew, you ought to be ashamed to support a man who so openly works for Muslims and against Israel. If Israel is obliterated because Obama will do nothing, you will have the blood of a second holocaust on your hands. How can you be so blind as to not see the obvious about Obama and his radical views? Are you so brainwashed? German Jews lived in denial too, and we know what happened to them. They believed it couldn't be true so they walked peacefully into gas chambers believing they were showers. SAD!

Quote

I didn't vote for Romney in the Primaries for this reason. Weak campaigner. He is the Republican John Kerry. He thinks because he's Mitt Romney, he should be president by default. He's campaigning in CA (?) and ignoring Ohio, Florida, PA, etc. He has no clue as to what to do. Sorry Mitt, you blew it. Too late to change course now.

Quote

Your pessimism stinks to me.

Romney is going to win big. You watch.

Quote

I think you're right, Mike. For reasons that go beyond current polls and WSJ reader pessimism. This is not an ordinary election season. This one is different. There is something the polls are not capturing, a pent up disgust for this president that will come out of the woodwork on election day, en mass. You read their comments everywhere, you hear them on the street and in the various social gatherings. Romney will win. Simply, the American people have never re-elected a president who was so patently and obviously bad for the country.

Quote

Until we are able to undo the brainwashing in our schools that produce these knucklehead leftist media types, we are doomed. Good people have to get on school boards. And those who are Trustees of our colleges and universities need to demand that the schools stop the brainwashing. Begin to take over some of the hiring so that moderates and conservatives can be hired. Right now, it's a closed shop. Unless you're a liberal, educators can't find employment at the college level.

This has been occurring since the Sixties, and now we are faced with a socialist country that will go the way of Greece, or worse yet, Zimbabwe.

Quote

The media polls that underpin the notion that Romney is losing are lies. They are manufactured to discourage Republican voters and Peggy is a useful idiot, carrying water for the democrats.

Quote

The media is the crux of the problem. Romney is a good man, successful, honorable, patriotic and he has a proven record as a fixer of economic problems.

But the politically correct obsession in our country has caused this ridiculous view that you have to vote for a Black man to assuage your guilt and show that you are a fair-minded person. I can't imagine how we can rid ourselves of this idiotic view with the media shoving it down our throats not only politically but even with entertainment. It's always the minority, whether Black, Hispanic, or Muslim, who's the smartest guy in the room while whites are stupid. Just watch some of the shows and you'll see how this works subliminally.

If Obama were doing a good job, I would rejoice, but he isn't, and his color is irrelevant to me. I just wish those on the left could be objective but obviously they can't.

Quote

Peggy's columns are dull not for lack of complete concepts, but for lack of new or insightful concepts. She wrote very good stuff 10 or 12 years ago and her columns during the Gore-Bush vote count were excellent. Today she writes like she is trying to preserve a pay check at WSJ while her political beliefs move steadily to the left.

I found this one particularly amusing. How can people not realizing that the GOP is moving so far to the right that it's leaving people like Peggy Noonan behind?

Quote

Ms. Noonan, You are making yourself ever so more irrelevant. It appears that you are still on the Obama camp. You exhibit the same Obama arrogance. Please do yourself a favor and move out of NYC for the election. You are in a bubble that NYC ivory tower inhabitants can't see out of.

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"Bain Capital Acquires Romney Campaign, Replaces Candidate with Bangalore Call Center" - http://www.citizenschwartz.com/?p=134

CLICK IT

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If Ronald Regan were the candidate running today, he would be faring no better than Mitt Romney.....indeed he was not doing better in 1982 before the first debate.

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With all due respect, you could not be more mistaken. Mr. Reagan had, in addition to James Baker, an intuitive ability to connect with his audience, and if you can't discern the differences between he and Mr. Romney (a very good man and an infinitely preferable president in this race) then perhaps you haven't heard enough of Mr. Reagan. By the way, there were no debates in 1982 (no teleprompters either).

Quote

You're wrong, John. The real point is that Reagan would never be able to get nominated by today's extreme right-wing Rep Party.

Quote

Extreme right? I would suggest that it is the more extremist left wing media and democratic party. Their platform consists of partial birth abortion, ignoring the debt, huge cuts to our military, did I mention ignoring the debt, class warfare, ignoring religious freedom, and the list goes on! The issues in this election are far more left wing than they have ever been in my lifetime. BTW, the other issue is whether someone built their own business and/or life or if it's the government's role to do it. I think you trust MSNBC w/out thinking about what you are saying.

I didn't know partial birth abortion was an issue in this election?

Anyway, enough for now.

[Terez]

BEST POLITICAL AD EVER

[Vengeance]

Terez I feel stupider having read those comments.

[HoosierDaddy]

If I wanted to read that stuff, Terez, I'd read comments.

Vengeance awards you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[worry]

Partial birth abortion is ALWAYS an issue when a "family values" conservative is losing. If liberal = commie and commie = China, how far away can instituting the one child policy here be?

[Vengeance]

Fiddler-in-Black, on 22 September 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I mean, I want someone who knows what he's doing when it comes to financial issues when my economy is so messed up versus someone who comes from the entitlement grabbing side of the tracks.

So lets talk about the entitlement side of the tracks. I would like to draw your attention to exhibit a.

Tax payer subsidies

Exhibit b.

Welfare Recipient

Exhibit c.

Next Generation is the generation of Debt

Exhibit d.

States that are subsidized

Exhibit E.

Our Veterans


Now what do you think is entitlement?

[HoosierDaddy]

These are the people who think they are entitled to FOOD, Vengy. Pathetic peasants. They want food? Then let them eat cake!

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 24 September 2012 - 12:56 AM

[Terez]

Speaking of housewives...I find it amusing that being a stay-at-home mom is a respectable full-time job if you have money, but if you don't and god forbid, you get food stamps or some other kind of assistance, then you're a Welfare Queen. Nevermind that getting a job means paying hundreds for day care, often more than available jobs will earn.

[Illuyankas]

Food stamps: You buy from American stores, so that money goes straight back in.

Tax breaks: Can be spent on online purchases from abroad, sending it out of the US economy.

[Destiny]

So I found this video (I don't think anyone has mentioned it before), which seems to have been filmed during the '47%' fundraiser. I don't know why that video has reached national news and this one hasn't gotten any attention (afaik).






This guy is just ridiculous. Here he is just calmly talking about being in business with companies that employ young woman who work incredibly long hours for next to nothing, sleep in rooms with 12 people and share 1 bathroom with 120 people.

And he either truly believes that BS about those fences being there so others wouldn't break in to take their jobs, which means he is the most naive ignorant moron on the planet...
OR he knowingly and willingly did business with these kind of companies, which means he's just a greedy heartless bastard. And I honestly don't know which one is worse.

How on earth are people still considering voting for him?

Too bad he didn't mention the year in which he visited this factory.

[Vengeance]

Destiny, on 24 September 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

So I found this video (I don't think anyone has mentioned it before), which seems to have been filmed during the '47%' fundraiser. I don't know why that video has reached national news and this one hasn't gotten any attention (afaik).






This guy is just ridiculous. Here he is just calmly talking about being in business with companies that employ young woman who work incredibly long hours for next to nothing, sleep in rooms with 12 people and share 1 bathroom with 120 people.

And he either truly believes that BS about those fences being there so others wouldn't break in to take their jobs, which means he is the most naive ignorant moron on the planet...
OR he knowingly and willingly did business with these kind of companies, which means he's just a greedy heartless bastard. And I honestly don't know which one is worse.

How on earth are people still considering voting for him?

Too bad he didn't mention the year in which he visited this factory.

Yeah I saw that video. He employed Chinese slave labor. It is horrible and he thinks nothing was wrong with it because it was padding his bottom line. But hey its ok because he pays less taxes then everyone else.

[Vengeance]

Math still wonky


Honestly at this point I don't know why I am not surprised that the man thinks that the American people are the most stupid and gullible people on earth. A campaign who's only highlights are taking words out of context and out right lies.

[Tapper]

Vengeance, on 24 September 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Math still wonky


Honestly at this point I don't know why I am not surprised that the man thinks that the American people are the most stupid and gullible people on earth. A campaign who's only highlights are taking words out of context and out right lies.

Nah, he just creates a lower-rich class (+100k < 250k) that no-one has ever heard of which he will tax the hell out of, then misnamed it in an interview. Slip of the tongue (or, perhaps even better: spin to not confuse the masses).

Can happen if you're busy saving the economy by cutting taxes and closing loopholes.
It is just like the 47%: unfortunate phrasing.

But love the article, as well as the linkies it provides. Honestly, who in their right mind apart from 250k+ earners wants to vote Romney?