[Maark Abbott]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 12 January 2026 - 09:19 PM, said:

And I don't buy "well all the 2A, don't-tread-on-me folks are either in ICE or pro-ICE" argument

I think the problem is that Occam's Razor applies here and essentially the simplest explanation is the correct one. 2A tend to be very right wing / Republican from all my interactions with Americans, and they are the sorts who are mostly cheering for what is going on.

Now I'm not going to say this applies for ALL of them but the prevailing attitude seems to be 'we hate tyranny unless that tyranny is against minority groups we dislike' and then here we are at the current juncture.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 13 January 2026 - 08:44 AM, said:

I think the problem is that Occam's Razor applies here and essentially the simplest explanation is the correct one. 2A tend to be very right wing / Republican from all my interactions with Americans, and they are the sorts who are mostly cheering for what is going on.

Now I'm not going to say this applies for ALL of them but the prevailing attitude seems to be 'we hate tyranny unless that tyranny is against minority groups we dislike' and then here we are at the current juncture.

The libertarian intellectuals writing for Reason seem to have been consistent in condemning Trump's immigration policies, ICE, and police abuses.

But libertarian intellectuals in general are a very tiny minority, and probably much less likely than most 2nd Amendment types to engage in violence, despite their intellectual convictions.

Plus I think they ultimately care more about ending what they see as the terrible tyranny of having to pay taxes or be subject to regulations of any kind (environmental or otherwise---especially when they think corporations could be making more money without them). And they like the feeling of power and false security that having guns gives them, so so long as they and their in-group have their guns and the administration promises to slash taxes and economically salient regulations (if they have to choose, I think they'll sacrifice free speech in exchange for the right to pollute---and maim and poison people "by accident" with impunity...)...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 13 January 2026 - 11:54 AM

[QuickTidal]

How many January 6ers, pardoned or otherwise, are currently ICE...I bet the overlap is almost complete.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Azath Vitr (D, on 13 January 2026 - 11:36 AM, said:

(if they have to choose, I think they'll sacrifice free speech in exchange for the right to pollute---and maim and poison people "by accident" with impunity...)...

For example:

Quote

E.P.A. to Stop Considering Lives Saved When Setting Rules on Air Pollution

In a reversal, the agency plans to calculate only the cost to industry when setting pollution limits, and not the monetary value of saving human lives

E.P.A. to Stop Considering Lives Saved by Limiting Air Pollution - The New York Times

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 13 January 2026 - 02:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

QuickTidal, on 13 January 2026 - 12:20 PM, said:

How many January 6ers, pardoned or otherwise, are currently ICE...I bet the overlap is almost complete.

Huh, turns out House Dems had the same query as I did...

https://www.cbsnews....-6-rioters-ice/

[Tiste Simeon]

Scott Adams died. 20 years ago I would have been very upset, but now? He had a treatable version of it and instead chose to go for "treatments" in line with his MAGA idiocy (ivermectin for one) and it killed him. So I'm still sad because it's such a stupid waste of a life but his influence at least won't be used in that way anymore.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 13 January 2026 - 06:47 PM, said:

Scott Adams died. 20 years ago I would have been very upset, but now? He had a treatable version of it and instead chose to go for "treatments" in line with his MAGA idiocy (ivermectin for one) and it killed him. So I'm still sad because it's such a stupid waste of a life but his influence at least won't be used in that way anymore.

It's wild to me that someone would choose NOT to treat one of the worlds most treatable/slow moving cancers with one of the highest survival rates...with traditional methods proven to work (and it's not just Chemo or nothing, there are multiple options)...and instead chooses shit like horse dewormer instead...like I understand he had long ago fallen down the Trumper conspiracy rabbit hole....but jeezus was no one in his family trying to snap him out of it and get real treatment?

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 13 January 2026 - 07:00 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 13 January 2026 - 06:47 PM, said:

Scott Adams died. 20 years ago I would have been very upset, but now? He had a treatable version of it and instead chose to go for "treatments" in line with his MAGA idiocy (ivermectin for one) and it killed him. So I'm still sad because it's such a stupid waste of a life but his influence at least won't be used in that way anymore.

It's wild to me that someone would choose NOT to treat one of the worlds most treatable/slow moving cancers with one of the highest survival rates...with traditional methods proven to work (and it's not just Chemo or nothing, there are multiple options)...and instead chooses shit like horse dewormer instead...like I understand he had long ago fallen down the Trumper conspiracy rabbit hole....but jeezus was no one in his family trying to snap him out of it and get real treatment?

Adams seriously eroded over time. Whether it was mental health issues or not, he really really drank the bad koolade.

[Cause]

Azath Vitr (D, on 13 January 2026 - 02:08 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 13 January 2026 - 11:36 AM, said:

(if they have to choose, I think they'll sacrifice free speech in exchange for the right to pollute---and maim and poison people "by accident" with impunity...)...

For example:

Quote

E.P.A. to Stop Considering Lives Saved When Setting Rules on Air Pollution

In a reversal, the agency plans to calculate only the cost to industry when setting pollution limits, and not the monetary value of saving human lives

E.P.A. to Stop Considering Lives Saved by Limiting Air Pollution - The New York Times

I can’t read the article, what am I missing? If we are not considering the health effects of pollution what else is there to consider?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 13 January 2026 - 09:13 PM, said:

I can't read the article, what am I missing? If we are not considering the health effects of pollution what else is there to consider?

How much more money businesses could be making if regulations were repealed.

It should really be called the Anti-Environmental Protection Agency now.

From the article:

Quote

the Trump administration [...] said the E.P.A. [...] would estimate only the costs to businesses of complying with the rules.

Over the past four decades, different administrations have used different estimates of the monetary value of a human life in cost-benefit analyses. But until now, no administration has counted it as zero.

[...] "If you're only considering the costs to industry and you're ignoring the benefits, then you can't justify any regulations that protect public health, which is the very reason that E.P.A. was set up," [...]

The E.P.A.'s new approach is likely to draw legal challenges and could ultimately make rollbacks of pollution limits more vulnerable in court, legal experts said.

In May, the White House ordered agencies to stop considering the economic damage caused by climate change when crafting regulations, except in cases where it is "plainly required" by law. That directive effectively shelved a powerful tool, known as the "social cost of carbon," that the Biden administration had used to strengthen limits on carbon emissions from cars and power plants.

E.P.A. to Stop Considering Lives Saved by Limiting Air Pollution - The New York Times

Not clear whether not considering "health effects" extends to animals and plants that are regarded as having "economic value". I'd suppose that things like property damage or interfering with traffic might still count... or not.

One big question then is whether the Supreme Court will play along when presented with these new "cost-benefit" analyses.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 13 January 2026 - 10:01 PM

[Maark Abbott]

Videos I've seen today:

Gestapo kidnapping child off of the street, no parent or guardian present;

Gestapo dragging a disabled woman out of her car for having the temerity to have a doctors appointment

I don't know how America can come back from this.

[QuickTidal]

Democratic leadership has abandoned you. Like they should all be universally raising shit, being loud, and disruptive until something cracks....they are just like "Well our hands are tied, we aren't in power" as if they have NO avenues of rebuke...it's wild to me. You have a fascist regime, and the opposition is just sitting back and letting it happen.

If the Biden/Harris admin had done ANY of this, the Republicans would never shut up about it and would be in front of as many cameras on the daily as they could find.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 14 January 2026 - 02:30 PM, said:

Democratic leadership has abandoned you. ...

It's this that truly blows my mind. It as if like the Dems have thrown up their hands and given up and are just working at protecting their own individual butts and profits and couldn't care less about oh yeah right nevermind.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 14 January 2026 - 03:58 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 January 2026 - 02:30 PM, said:

Democratic leadership has abandoned you. ...

It's this that truly blows my mind. It as if like the Dems have thrown up their hands and given up and are just working at protecting their own individual butts and profits and couldn't care less about oh yeah right nevermind.

Boom. Answered our own question there didn't we?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

Trump threatened to impose martial law on Minnesota just hours after ICE agents shot a man during an enforcement operation.

"If the corrupt politicians of Minnesota don't obey the law and stop the professional agitators and insurrectionists from attacking the Patriots of I.C.E., who are only trying to do their job, I will institute the INSURRECTION ACT, which many Presidents have done before me, and quickly put an end to the travesty that is taking place in that once great State," [...]

[Governor Walz] urged citizens to record the "atrocities" committed by ICE agents, to bank evidence for future prosecution.

Trump Threatens Martial Law in Blue State in Wild Morning Rage Post

How many blue cities could the US military effectively control, if they act as though humanitarian concerns are not a concern?

As Trump wrote in a Truth Social post:

Quote

Because it's easier to rule over an empire of ashes

https://www.yahoo.co...-232052992.html

... of course that's what he's accusing the Democrats of wanting to do; but he tends to accuse his perceived enemies of doing what he intends to do.

[HoosierDaddy]

Every day I wake up and dread opening up the news to see what fresh fuckery has happened overnight. It's not great.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

HoosierDaddy, on 15 January 2026 - 05:11 PM, said:

Every day I wake up and dread opening up the news to see what fresh fuckery has happened overnight. It's not great.

Trump's now also done a Reuter's interview in which

Quote

He boasted that he had accomplished so much that "when you think of it, we shouldn't even have an election."

https://www.reuters....ump-2026-01-15/

Delusional Trump, 79, Gives Unhinged Reason[s] for Why Midterms Shouldn't Happen - The Daily Beast

Hmm, wanting to institute martial law and cancel the elections... gee, I wonder what he could possibly be planning...

[Lady Bliss]

HoosierDaddy, on 15 January 2026 - 05:11 PM, said:

Every day I wake up and dread opening up the news to see what fresh fuckery has happened overnight. It's not great.

You can’t hardly read the news anymore without paying for it. That can’t be good.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

Trump Orders Elite Military Units to Prepare For Potential Greenland Siege

Sources familiar with the discussions reveal that Trump instructed military planners to draw up plans to seize the Arctic island, though the joint chiefs of staff have reportedly resisted the proposal, arguing that such an operation would be illegal and would lack the necessary congressional support required to authorise military action. The tension between the commander-in-chief and America's highest-ranking military officers reflects a fundamental constitutional crisis waiting to happen.

[...] European officials have begun discussing a darker possibility. Some suspect that dismantling NATO may actually be the real objective of the hardline faction surrounding Trump.

Since Congress would not permit Trump to simply withdraw from NATO, the cable suggests, occupying Greenland could force European nations to abandon the alliance in response. 'If Trump wants to end NATO, this might be the most convenient way to do it,' the diplomatic analysis states with chilling clarity.

Donald Trump Orders Elite Military Units to Prepare For Potential Greenland Siege | IBTimes

... but it's reassuring that the joint chiefs of staff are resisting---it implies that Trump's purge of the military leadership has not been complete enough for them to be willing to do whatever he says.

Then again, perhaps that was another goal: to see who else he has to fire and replace with people loyal enough to help him stage an auto-coup... and control the aftermath.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

France, Germany, the U.K., Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands [...] started sending symbolic numbers of troops [to Greenland] or promised to do so in the following days.

European troops arrive in Greenland as Denmark talks with US | AP News

So... maybe they'll give war a chance after all? Or will they have their troops fight against the US invaders and let the United States slaughter these symbolic troops, like human sacrifices to amplify the international scope of the atrocity, but not do much of anything in terms of military retaliation? Or perhaps their troops are secretly being instructed to surrender when MAGA invades?

I find it hard to believe they'd really do much of anything beyond these "symbolic" gestures---except possibly trying to kick the US military off their European bases. (I'd assume the United States military probably could not---if they were willing to try to do it by force---hold them against the explicit commands of the host nations? At least it wouldn't be very practical?)

Forgot to mention that MAGA influencers have been publicly salivating over what Trump's government could do with all the plunder from his conquests. Fantasizing about ending the federal income tax.