[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 11 March 2025 - 03:48 PM, said:

Quote

The United States buys more steel from Canada than from any other country, and those imports will become much more expensive under tariffs President Trump intends to impose this week.

That's good news to Stephen Capone, president of Capone Iron Corporation of Rowley, Mass., which makes steel stairs, handrails, gratings and other products and has around 100 employees. For too long, he said, Canadian competitors have been flooding the New England market with cheap steel products, preventing his and other local companies from winning business.

"No matter how low we bid, they can underbid us on any job," Mr. Capone said. "They're decimating our market."

https://www.nytimes....supporters.html

What's brutal about this is that if they had been competitive, this would not be a problem and the people in the States would have bought from them....that they are outbid every time just shows their margins are too tight and moreso because Canada has much more steel to buy.

Do they think that just because steel gets tariffed that somehow the production of it will triple in the states? They can't just magically make factories appear to do it...that would take years and even if they did eventually appear, those factories would shut the minute a democratic president was back in power and got rid of the tariffs....it's fucking nonsense all the way down, and idiotic Americans are slurping it up. This guy will only make more money until a sensible administration removes the tariffs and then he's back to where he is now.


Someone needs to explain to these people "If The US companies could buy from US manufacturers with regards to resources and it made monetary sense THEY FUCKING WOULD...".....forcing them to buy from US manufacturers with higher costs is braindead stupid and sooner or later those massive industries are going to come knocking at Congresses door (and lets face facts Congress coult stop this madness ANYTIME they like) to make it stop...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 11 March 2025 - 04:10 PM, said:

Do they think that just because steel gets tariffed that somehow the production of it will triple in the states? They can't just magically make factories appear to do it...that would take years and even if they did eventually appear, those factories would shut the minute a democratic president was back in power and got rid of the tariffs....it's fucking nonsense all the way down, and idiotic Americans are slurping it up. This guy will only make more money until a sensible administration removes the tariffs and then he's back to where he is now.

From the New York Times (one month ago):

Quote

U.S. companies import only about 26 percent of the steel they use, according to the International Trade Administration, and that number has been falling.

At the same time, end users seeking alternatives to foreign suppliers may have options. U.S. iron and steel producers are operating at only about 70 percent capacity. The first Trump administration aimed to get to 80 percent, and did so briefly. But underpriced Chinese exports have taken a toll on domestic producers in recent years, forcing older, less efficient mills to close and leaving others with fewer orders than they can handle.

[...] While much of the steel that auto manufacturers use is produced in the United States, those companies and their suppliers also depend on specialized alloys that are available only from overseas producers. Virtually all automakers would be affected, including Tesla, which in 2023 petitioned for an exemption to tariffs.

The company told officials it needed steel available only from abroad, reportedly for the Cybertruck, which has a stainless steel body.

Is It Made of Metal? It Could Get More Expensive Under Trump's Latest Tariffs. Duties of 25 percent on steel and aluminum will flow through to car buyers, beer drinkers, home builders, oil drillers and other users of metal goods.

Specifically, Tesla relies on specialty steel from a Finnish producer... but I'd bet on Trump granting Musk an exemption (at least eventually---so long as he stays sufficiently within the bounds of Trump's good graces).

So some quick math: US steel manufacturing currently operating at 70% capacity, about 10% of that is exported, and about 25% of steel used in the US is imported. So 90% of US steel production is used domestically, and it satisfies 75% of US steel usage. Let s represent US steel production capacity and q represent the amount of steel the US uses.

0.7*0.9*s = 0.75*q

s/q = 0.75/(0.7*0.9) ≈ 1.19

If that estimate of what % of operating capacity US steel manufacturers are at is too low, what % would it have to be for s/q to be less than 1? Another simple calculation:

1 > 0.75/(x*0.9)

x > 0.75/0.9 = 83.33...%

So if these figures are accurate and I haven't somehow made an error in the math, the US already has the capacity to produce 119% of its current steel usage, with the notable exception of specialty steel that apparently still has to be imported (IDK how quickly US manufacturers could replicate those specialty steels at scale). However, if steel starts being used at a higher rate---for our robot armies, for example---or if those specialty steels make up a large enough percentage, the math could change substantially. And IDK what % of that specialty steel that can't yet be produced domestically comes from Canada.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 05:15 PM

[QuickTidal]

I don't think any of that has to do with it though...American companies producing steel KNOWING they are the only game in town have zero reason to compete, and thus prices can be whatever they set them to be. Canada being in the ballgame means they have to try to complete and that keeps prices lower...letting American fend for itself on steel will mean higher prices once the market is cornered in your country.

[QuickTidal]

A French nuclear attack submarine has surfaced at Halifax, Nova Scotia, after Trump threatens to annex Canada.

Macron is subtle. Oh nothing to see here Donny, just the EU throwing up an early defence to Canadian waters/borders.

Love it.

I mean let's be real, I don't WANT a war with the USA, but I'm very happy to see our EU allies are telling Trump subtly "You will absolutely the fuck not"


I also expect the Aussies to be on our shores in a heartbeat if he ever tries even a small land grab.


HOW IS THIS THE TIMELINE? I never thought in a million years that the USA and Canada would be at odds like this. Goes to show you how far cult leader can push shit if he has no checks or balances on this power.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: Yesterday, 05:35 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 11 March 2025 - 05:25 PM, said:

I don't think any of that has to do with it though...American companies producing steel KNOWING they are the only game in town have zero reason to compete, and thus prices can be whatever they set them to be. Canada being in the ballgame means they have to try to complete and that keeps prices lower...letting American fend for itself on steel will mean higher prices once the market is cornered in your country.

Yep... Canadian steel w a nice hefty trumpy tariff, or US steel w a nice hefty WOOHOO PROFIT WHEEEE SCREW YOU CUSTOMERS!!!.
Have fun making all those cars you're not going to sell.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 11 March 2025 - 05:25 PM, said:

I don't think any of that has to do with it though...American companies producing steel KNOWING they are the only game in town have zero reason to compete, and thus prices can be whatever they set them to be. Canada being in the ballgame means they have to try to complete and that keeps prices lower...letting American fend for itself on steel will mean higher prices once the market is cornered in your country.

They almost certainly will, which is why I included not only the headline but the subhead for that article from last month---"Is It Made of Metal? It Could Get More Expensive Under Trump's Latest Tariffs. Duties of 25 percent on steel and aluminum will flow through to car buyers, beer drinkers, home builders, oil drillers and other users of metal goods."

I'm not keen on playing idiot tyrant's advocate, but one argument in favor of steel tariffs is that the Canadian government's steel subsidies are providing an unfair advantage---pretty much the same argument I gather the Canadian government is using for tariffs on Chinese steel in turn. Chinese and Canadian citizens were paying for US consumers to get cheaper stuff. But now US consumers are going to have to pay---if they consume. It's almost as regressive as a value-added tax.

In cases where production is virtuous---and steel and aluminum are probably two such cases---I think we'll agree (well, at least two of us, that is) that China is in the right, and the US and Canada are in the wrong: subsidies are preferable to tariffs and "free market" forces.

Given Carney's background, I expected him to be a hypocritical "free market" ideologue; but apparently not (from back in 2021):

Quote

In his new 608-page book, Carney laments the economic consensus that "value is subjective". This pillar of economics says that the value of goods, such as cars, are determined not by their gadgets or the labour producing them but by individuals' judgments of the car's importance in meeting our own needs. [...]

According to Carney, however, our "marketised society", governed by this principle, corrupts society's "values", because it blurs the distinction between market prices and "social value". Price is conflated with value, such that everything unpriced is seen as non-valuable.

We therefore need to move away from "unfettered capitalism", he says, to an economic model where, rather than pursuing our own subjective interests, society forges "consensus" on its objectives based on our "shared values". Markets can then be "marshalled to help discover and drive solutions in a form of mission-oriented capitalism". So we might call "sustainability" our value and make mitigating climate change an objective. Capitalism should be harnessed to deliver that goal.

https://www.cato.org...e-muddled-farce

Capitalism, or something more efficient....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 06:26 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 11 March 2025 - 06:24 PM, said:

I'm not keen on playing idiot tyrant's advocate,

Cool, then don't. Seriously, don't.

No one here needs you to thump your American chest about who's getting a worse deal.

[HoosierDaddy]

 QuickTidal, on 11 March 2025 - 06:45 PM, said:

 Azath Vitr (D, on 11 March 2025 - 06:24 PM, said:

I'm not keen on playing idiot tyrant's advocate,

Cool, then don't. Seriously, don't.

No one here needs you to thump your American chest about who's getting a worse deal.

That’s a little… restrictive? It is a discussion board. There are people who think whatever they are told and at least here the truth will out as opposed to the wider world where there lies drown everything.

[Macros]

Yeah, I find it hard to follow at times but do appreciate the devils advocate here