[Macros]

As I said, you can't give facists an inch

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Rioters Hit Police Officers Over the Head With Lead Pipes During Capitol Chaos'

https://www.thedaily...-chaos?ref=home

'There were altercations—[rioters] shoved and hit police, their faces all sweaty rage—but most, it seemed, didn't want to be gassed again. As they fell back, people took parting shots: [...] "You just lost the only people in this country who stand behind you!" "You serve Satan!"

"This is not America," a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. She was crying, hysterical. "They're shooting at us. They're supposed to shoot BLM, but they're shooting the patriots."

A man[...] comforted her: "Don't worry, honey. We showed them today. We showed them what we're all about."'

https://www.thenatio...ion-explosions/

'A Facial Recognition Company Says That Viral Washington Times "Antifa" Story Is False

Matt Gaetz had cited the story in Congress as supposed evidence that antifa was involved in the Capitol assault.

[...] the Washington Times published a story that claimed XRVision "used its software to do facial recognition of protesters and matched two Philadelphia Antifa members to two men inside the Senate." [...] The story did not name the men or provide evidence that they were involved in antifa, a decentralized group of "anti-fascists" who go to protests around the US and whom the right often uses as a bogeyman.

[...] XRVision's software actually identified two members of neo-Nazi organizations and a QAnon supporter among the pro-Trump mob — not antifa members.

"Our attorney is in contact with the Washington Times and has instructed them to 'Cease and Desist' from any claims regarding sourcing of XRVision analytics, to retract the current claims, and publish an apology," the statement said.

[...] The Washington Times said it was provided a copy of the XRVision antifa photo match by a "retired military officer." But XRVision said it has no idea who that source might be and added that the alleged photo match is false.'
https://www.buzzfeed...ton-times-false

'Tim "Baked Alaska" Gionet, a neo-Nazi known for promoting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, posted video that showed Trump supporters in "Make America Great Again" and "God Bless Trump" hats milling around and taking selfies with officers who calmly asked them to leave the premises. The Trump supporters talked among themselves, laughed, and told the officers and each other: "This is only the beginning."

[...] The crowd of Trump supporters at the Capitol also included adherents of the "Groyper Army," a loose network of white supremacists that includes "America First" podcaster Nick Fuentes.

[...] Fuentes, who wants to push mainstream conservatism toward white nationalism, was banned from YouTube last year for hate speech.'

https://www.timesofi...med-us-capitol/

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 07 January 2021 - 06:42 PM

[Cyphon]

Ultimately it (punishing the fash and fans enablers and removing them from the levers of control) will come down to the political capital/cost to properly close it down and be punitive. Biden may decide its not worth it, especially with only a 2 year window before his control starts to slip when he loses the senate in the midterms. Also depends on what his reunification strategy is I guess.

Ultimately not sure it can be done without majority going after Fox et al in a way which isn't censorship.

Dont know how you fix this.

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 07 January 2021 - 06:48 PM

[Gorefest]

Just made the mistake of reading Tucker Carlson's opinion piece on the riot. I feel very nauseous now.

[Primateus]

Gorefest, on 07 January 2021 - 06:50 PM, said:

Just made the mistake of reading Tucker Carlson's opinion piece on the riot. I feel very nauseous now.

Does he project blame unto antifa and the democrats?

[Aptorian]

I bet it was that dastardly George Soros who was behind this!

[Primateus]

Aptorian, on 07 January 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

I bet it was that dastardly George Soros who was behind this!

He is definitely twirling his mustache right now, then, whilst laughing maniacally and villainously.

[Mentalist]

Macros, on 07 January 2021 - 06:22 PM, said:

As I said, you can't give facists an inch

My last thought going to bed last night was "This feels like America's Munich Beer Putsch". But that's the ultra-pessimist in me talking. Even if there's a lot of sympathizers to these people within the police (which I'm willing to believe), the US isn't a Weimar republic, and its military generally isn't stupid.

[Cause]

https://www.cnn.com/...rump/index.html

Cabinet members resigning would seem to suggest they not gonna 25th amendment trump out the door.

Also I love how suddenly and quickly the GOP has turned on trump. The writing was an the wall. The trend line was easy to extrapolate to what occurred. Now they are outraged and and hold him to blame?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 07 January 2021 - 07:42 PM, said:

https://www.cnn.com/...rump/index.html

Cabinet members resigning would seem to suggest they not gonna 25th amendment trump out the door.

Also I love how suddenly and quickly the GOP has turned on trump. The writing was an the wall. The trend line was easy to extrapolate to what occurred. Now they are outraged and and hold him to blame?

Or that they have enough of a majority to 25th amendment him without her. (If so, hopefully enough of that majority is being honest about it and won't be swayed....)

If they can only remove him for four days, and they have good reason to believe Trump would do something really terrible and violent (perhaps promising to pardon people for murders committed on federal property, or try to get some members of the military to stage an actual coup), as a last resort Pence could have him extra-legally executed and pardon the executioners. He could have Biden or Pelosi agree to pardon him beforehand, then pardon them for co-conspiring, then either resign for Pelosi to pardon him or wait for Biden. Might be better if Pelosi did it and then resigned as Speaker.

[Primateus]

Azath Vitr (D, on 07 January 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cause, on 07 January 2021 - 07:42 PM, said:

https://www.cnn.com/...rump/index.html

Cabinet members resigning would seem to suggest they not gonna 25th amendment trump out the door.

Also I love how suddenly and quickly the GOP has turned on trump. The writing was an the wall. The trend line was easy to extrapolate to what occurred. Now they are outraged and and hold him to blame?

Or that they have enough of a majority to 25th amendment him without her. (If so, hopefully enough of that majority is being honest about it and won't be swayed....)

If they can only remove him for four days, and they have good reason to believe Trump would do something really terrible and violent (perhaps promising to pardon people for murders committed on federal property, or try to get some members of the military to stage an actual coup), as a last resort Pence could have him extra-legally executed and pardon the executioners. He could have Biden or Pelosi agree to pardon him beforehand, then pardon them for co-conspiring, then either resign for Pelosi to pardon him or wait for Biden. Might be better if Pelosi did it and then resigned as Speaker.

Extra-legal executions? Jesus christ!

[QuickTidal]

The Articles of Impeachment have been drafted and released too, so that's another way out and assures that he can't run again. So I don't know which is smarter to go with, 25th or another impeachment and maybe the senate is on board to turf him out this time?

Dunno.

[HoosierDaddy]

Primateus, on 07 January 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 07 January 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cause, on 07 January 2021 - 07:42 PM, said:

https://www.cnn.com/...rump/index.html

Cabinet members resigning would seem to suggest they not gonna 25th amendment trump out the door.

Also I love how suddenly and quickly the GOP has turned on trump. The writing was an the wall. The trend line was easy to extrapolate to what occurred. Now they are outraged and and hold him to blame?

Or that they have enough of a majority to 25th amendment him without her. (If so, hopefully enough of that majority is being honest about it and won't be swayed....)

If they can only remove him for four days, and they have good reason to believe Trump would do something really terrible and violent (perhaps promising to pardon people for murders committed on federal property, or try to get some members of the military to stage an actual coup), as a last resort Pence could have him extra-legally executed and pardon the executioners. He could have Biden or Pelosi agree to pardon him beforehand, then pardon them for co-conspiring, then either resign for Pelosi to pardon him or wait for Biden. Might be better if Pelosi did it and then resigned as Speaker.

Extra-legal executions? Jesus christ!

The answer to authoritarian actions is not... that.

Censor and impeach. Try him for the crimes committed. Unlike Palpatine, Trump "is not the Senate" and is not the courts.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

HoosierDaddy, on 07 January 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Primateus, on 07 January 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 07 January 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cause, on 07 January 2021 - 07:42 PM, said:

https://www.cnn.com/...rump/index.html

Cabinet members resigning would seem to suggest they not gonna 25th amendment trump out the door.

Also I love how suddenly and quickly the GOP has turned on trump. The writing was an the wall. The trend line was easy to extrapolate to what occurred. Now they are outraged and and hold him to blame?

Or that they have enough of a majority to 25th amendment him without her. (If so, hopefully enough of that majority is being honest about it and won't be swayed....)

If they can only remove him for four days, and they have good reason to believe Trump would do something really terrible and violent (perhaps promising to pardon people for murders committed on federal property, or try to get some members of the military to stage an actual coup), as a last resort Pence could have him extra-legally executed and pardon the executioners. He could have Biden or Pelosi agree to pardon him beforehand, then pardon them for co-conspiring, then either resign for Pelosi to pardon him or wait for Biden. Might be better if Pelosi did it and then resigned as Speaker.

Extra-legal executions? Jesus christ!

The answer to authoritarian actions is not... that.

Censor and impeach. Try him for the crimes committed. Unlike Palpatine, Trump "is not the Senate" and is not the courts.

Then he returns to power in four days, has his enemies assassinated on federal property / blows up federal buildings they're in, pardons the perpetrators, and pardons himself. Replaces his Secretary of State with an extreme loyalist (Don Jr.?), murders Biden, Harris, Pelosi, and the president pro tempore of the Senate (currently Grassley)---with missiles if need be, I'm sure he can get ahold of some even without the support of most of the military---then on Biden's inauguration the Secretary of State becomes President, appoints Trump acting Secretary of State, and (before a new Speaker of the House or president pro tempore of the Senate can be chosen---or after the new ones are murdered too) resigns for Trump to become the President again.

Of course, I hope this is extremely unlikely. One of the worst case scenarios I can think of. But execution would be warranted.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 07 January 2021 - 08:17 PM

[HoosierDaddy]

I think you need to dial down the paranoia a little bit too, honestly, Azath.

That seems more than unlikely, but maybe I'm wrong. Don't think I am though. Think this is a small dose of some needed reality for a lot of Republicans/conservatives who have been hand-waving and nihilistically going along with stuff.

Edit: Yeah, if that stuff happened then he'd be up for a treason trial posthaste.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 07 January 2021 - 08:55 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

HoosierDaddy, on 07 January 2021 - 08:54 PM, said:

I think you need to dial down the paranoia a little bit too, honestly, Azath.

That seems more than unlikely, but maybe I'm wrong. Don't think I am though. Think this is a small dose of some needed reality for a lot of Republicans/conservatives who have been hand-waving and nihilistically going along with stuff.

Edit: Yeah, if that stuff happened then he'd be up for a treason trial posthaste.

'Republicans I spoke to on Wednesday echoed the view that Trump wants to blow things up on his way out the door. "He'll want to burn the whole thing down," a Republican strategist said. "Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself."'

https://www.vanityfa...35wfkoqG9szb4CU

I don't think Trump has any genuine moral compunctions about murder or mass murder. But his fear of physical danger will (hopefully) stop him. I'm almost certain he's considered it. The president can issue pardons for treason; if Don Jr. (or other extreme loyalist) goes from Acting Secretary of State to President he could pardon Trump, then resign so Trump can pardon him. And Congress can't impeach if [Edit: the number of votes required for the 2/3rds Senate majority cannot be reached because of murder or unlawful detainment (not sure if how quorum rules would work if enough non-loyalists were murdered to give Trump loyalists a majority---they probably wouldn't).] I doubt the rest of the world would dare any sort of direct military action to remove him, aside from assassination perhaps. The US military or intelligence/law enforcement agencies would have to actively intervene to stop him, instead of just passively refusing illegal orders.

But there's also the question of what to do if he doesn't seem poised for those extremes, but he does warrant invocation of the 25th amendment... and there aren't enough votes to permanently remove him. I think the knowledge that Pence and Pelosi could have him executed and render each other immune to prosecution with pardons would be enough to deter him.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 07 January 2021 - 09:30 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Another option would be for Pence to incapacitate Trump until Biden's inauguration, so that Trump can't officially object to the invocation of the 25th amendment, in which case they would not need a 2/3rds majority. For example, he could keep Trump heavily drugged. Or maybe just lock him away somewhere so he can't file an objection. Then do the 'mutual pardon agreement' trick with Pelosi. Trump could then be prosecuted for federal crimes after his presidency, assuming it were done before he preemptively pardoned himself.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 07 January 2021 - 09:54 PM

[Malankazooie]

Ohhhh whoa Snap! Merrick Garland will be AG under Biden. Better lawyer up Mitch. Garland seems truly principled though, so...

[Cause]

Azath Vitr (D, on 07 January 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 07 January 2021 - 08:54 PM, said:

I think you need to dial down the paranoia a little bit too, honestly, Azath.

That seems more than unlikely, but maybe I'm wrong. Don't think I am though. Think this is a small dose of some needed reality for a lot of Republicans/conservatives who have been hand-waving and nihilistically going along with stuff.

Edit: Yeah, if that stuff happened then he'd be up for a treason trial posthaste.

'Republicans I spoke to on Wednesday echoed the view that Trump wants to blow things up on his way out the door. "He'll want to burn the whole thing down," a Republican strategist said. "Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself."'

https://www.vanityfa...35wfkoqG9szb4CU

I don't think Trump has any genuine moral compunctions about murder or mass murder. But his fear of physical danger will (hopefully) stop him. I'm almost certain he's considered it. The president can issue pardons for treason; if Don Jr. (or other extreme loyalist) goes from Acting Secretary of State to President he could pardon Trump, then resign so Trump can pardon him. And Congress can't impeach if [Edit: the number of votes required for the 2/3rds Senate majority cannot be reached because of murder or unlawful detainment (not sure if how quorum rules would work if enough non-loyalists were murdered to give Trump loyalists a majority---they probably wouldn't).] I doubt the rest of the world would dare any sort of direct military action to remove him, aside from assassination perhaps. The US military or intelligence/law enforcement agencies would have to actively intervene to stop him, instead of just passively refusing illegal orders.

But there's also the question of what to do if he doesn't seem poised for those extremes, but he does warrant invocation of the 25th amendment... and there aren't enough votes to permanently remove him. I think the knowledge that Pence and Pelosi could have him executed and render each other immune to prosecution with pardons would be enough to deter him.

If the president through the constitution out the window so would the senate and the governors to stop him. If trump was illegally detaining senators to stop them from having a quorum they would no longer fight him with votes. Than when you start calling secretaries and generals on the phone. That’s when trump no longer needs to issue pardons because at jay point the constitution means nothing.

I think we are far away from that

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'A US Capitol Police officer has died from events stemming from Wednesday's riot at the Capitol'

https://www.cnn.com/...phrvHqBZ0TJL37o

No specific cause of death mentioned yet. Several officers were hospitalized.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 January 2021 - 12:34 AM