[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 03 March 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

Trump asked the fed to cut rates and they just did. The fed though should be independent. There is no reason to necessarily believe they have in to pressure but I wonder if it nevertheless continues to send the wrong message. Trump will do anything to keep the stock market from crashing in his watch.

AG Barr said something similar although in his case there is every reason to doubt. However it's hard to claim I was gonna do it anyway, when the pressure is so clearly evident.

For Trump it's about temporarily boosting the stock market to get himself reelected. But it seems like a good move in context: the coronavirus is disrupting supply chains (particularly those relying on human labor in close quarters) and will probably harm businesses that rely on people congregating (move theaters, amusement parks, retail stores). The negative effects can be mitigated by shifting supply chains and distribution methods: automation instead of human factory labor, virtual rather than in-person entertainment, delivery rather than eating in restaurants. These shifts require expenditure (as will waiting out the worst part of the current outbreak), and low interest rates could help with that.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 March 2020 - 07:48 PM

[Terez]

[Morgoth]

You do realise that Sanders would be on the right of the political spectrum in most European countries, right BK?

[Terez]

If Bernie Sanders actually lived in one of those European countries, he would be far left. I'm not saying, if he was born in some alternate timeline and grew up in Europe. Like, if he moved there 10 or so years ago before he started running for president, within a year he would be on your far left. That's just how Bernie is. Everyone knows it. He exists in the US so he does his best to fit in.

[Tiste Simeon]

Morgoth, on 04 March 2020 - 08:47 AM, said:

You do realise that Sanders would be on the right of the political spectrum in most European countries, right BK?

I think bk is too far gone down the Fox delusion pit

[Morgoth]

Terez, on 04 March 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:

If Bernie Sanders actually lived in one of those European countries, he would be far left. I'm not saying, if he was born in some alternate timeline and grew up in Europe. Like, if he moved there 10 or so years ago before he started running for president, within a year he would be on your far left. That's just how Bernie is. Everyone knows it. He exists in the US so he does his best to fit in.

I don't personally know Bernie Sanders, so I chose to base my impression of his political position on his political statements and his campaign website.

[Terez]

I wasn't trying to criticize you. Just making an observation about Bernie.

[Malankazooie]

Where does your state rank? These are some of the best and worst states to live in: Analysis

Best States to Live in

[Obdigore]

Terez, on 04 March 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:

If Bernie Sanders actually lived in one of those European countries, he would be far left. I'm not saying, if he was born in some alternate timeline and grew up in Europe. Like, if he moved there 10 or so years ago before he started running for president, within a year he would be on your far left. That's just how Bernie is. Everyone knows it. He exists in the US so he does his best to fit in.

That's a really weird statement. Why do you think that?

[Morgoth]

Terez, on 04 March 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

I wasn't trying to criticize you. Just making an observation about Bernie.

I didn't take it as criticism. I found it to be a puzzling statement, and a sort of analysis I've never heard before, so I question the idea that everyone knows this to be true. Are you saying that Bernie Sanders is predispositioned to left wing radicalism, so that no matter the society he grew up in, he'd be on the far left of the local political spectrum? Or are you saying that he's much more left wing than he presents himself, and is merely hiding his true beliefs? Your statement makes it seem like you believe that he picks radical ideas for the sake of radicalism, rather than any deeper thought as to their efficacy. I find either hard to believe. Sander's seems, to me at least, to be a man whom has shaped his beliefs through the experiences of a long political life, and is willing to stand by those beliefs despite him becoming unpopular and controversial as a result. I struggle to see dishonesty in his political positions.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 04 March 2020 - 01:42 PM

[QuickTidal]

I think I understand now why so many Bernie voters sat out 2016 after he didn't get the nom. I get it now. I didn't then. Because when the establishment refuses to accommodate the one guy who might be able to make things better for everyone, in favour of the centrist Hillary...how do you NOT get apathetic about politics and govt? I'm not saying if I was American I would have done that...but I 100% get why some people did it now.

And Elizabeth Warren can get fucked. Claims to stand for progressives, but when push came to shove she stayed in with no path to siphon votes off Bernie. This is just spite now. She's lost all credibility I'd given her in the past.

I hope Biden is not your Dem nominee...but it's looking like he might very well be and I can't imagine voting for that old windbag.

[Aptorian]

Of the political positions I've heard of, I'd definitely put Sanders in the far left category in Denmark.

[Khellendros]

It's when I wake up and see results like these that I think, 'why even bother voting?' It seems clear to me that pressure was put on Buttigieg and Klobuchar to drop out and endorse Biden, and probably promising them something in return. If the DNC has already picked their candidate, then stop with the hypocrisy of going through this pointless long-ass selection process and just announce you're going to have Biden be your candidate.

The extent to which Warren and her ideas have been ignored is also a scandal, in my opinion. But one that's not surprising.

[Slow Ben]

QuickTidal, on 04 March 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I think I understand now why so many Bernie voters sat out 2016 after he didn't get the nom. I get it now. I didn't then. Because when the establishment refuses to accommodate the one guy who might be able to make things better for everyone, in favour of the centrist Hillary...how do you NOT get apathetic about politics and govt? I'm not saying if I was American I would have done that...but I 100% get why some people did it now.

And Elizabeth Warren can get fucked. Claims to stand for progressives, but when push came to shove she stayed in with no path to siphon votes off Bernie. This is just spite now. She's lost all credibility I'd given her in the past.

I hope Biden is not your Dem nominee...but it's looking like he might very well be and I can't imagine voting for that old windbag.

I think you all might be missing something here. A LOT of people only have one criteria for who they will vote for this year. Who has the best chance to beat Trump. That's it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Bernie, but the only thing i care about in 2020 is getting rid of Donald Trump.


And just because they're not as loud on the social media, the 35+ age group votes also. And they love Joe Biden.







And a side note, don't lay all the blame at the DNC for Bernie. The man had strong opening primaries, and then immediately starting attacking everyone. Trying to get the democratic nomination, while attacking democrats, is not a great fucking strategy. Especially when you have to have the moderate vote to win.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 04 March 2020 - 02:30 PM

[Vengeance]

QuickTidal, on 04 March 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I think I understand now why so many Bernie voters sat out 2016 after he didn't get the nom. I get it now. I didn't then. Because when the establishment refuses to accommodate the one guy who might be able to make things better for everyone, in favour of the centrist Hillary...how do you NOT get apathetic about politics and govt? I'm not saying if I was American I would have done that...but I 100% get why some people did it now.

And Elizabeth Warren can get fucked. Claims to stand for progressives, but when push came to shove she stayed in with no path to siphon votes off Bernie. This is just spite now. She's lost all credibility I'd given her in the past.

I hope Biden is not your Dem nominee...but it's looking like he might very well be and I can't imagine voting for that old windbag.

Here is the thing. I would rather have an old windbag then the Nazi that we currently have in office. Also Elizabeth should stay in as long as she wants. Bernie wants her voters then he should fucking earn them. This is the Primary not the General. This is when people have an opportunity to vote for who they want before they are forced into voting for an old windbag. By the way how is Boris working out for you.

[Tiste Simeon]

QT is Canadian so Boris isn't doing anything for him

I would like to see Bernie get it but I think Boden has a chance to beat Trump. That's the key.

[King Lear]

Vengeance, on 04 March 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 04 March 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

I think I understand now why so many Bernie voters sat out 2016 after he didn't get the nom. I get it now. I didn't then. Because when the establishment refuses to accommodate the one guy who might be able to make things better for everyone, in favour of the centrist Hillary...how do you NOT get apathetic about politics and govt? I'm not saying if I was American I would have done that...but I 100% get why some people did it now.

And Elizabeth Warren can get fucked. Claims to stand for progressives, but when push came to shove she stayed in with no path to siphon votes off Bernie. This is just spite now. She's lost all credibility I'd given her in the past.

I hope Biden is not your Dem nominee...but it's looking like he might very well be and I can't imagine voting for that old windbag.

Here is the thing. I would rather have an old windbag then the Nazi that we currently have in office. Also Elizabeth should stay in as long as she wants. Bernie wants her voters then he should fucking earn them. This is the Primary not the General. This is when people have an opportunity to vote for who they want before they are forced into voting for an old windbag. By the way how is Boris working out for you.

It's such an absurd stance to take and I've been seeing it in the most unexpected places. Why would people assume that if Warren is gone those votes would automatically go to Bernie? I saw a thing (can't find it again grr) that said that 40% of people in one area said they decided on the day who they were going to vote for, this isn't something you can plan. The whole 4D chess maneuvering bullshit is exactly what leaves people feeling their vote is meaningless, and makes it less likely that they will vote, especially when you have to block a day off work to stand in a line for 7 hours.

Besides, all this Bernie shoulda Warren shoulda is meaningless if the DNC has already picked their candidate. And I'm not convinced Biden or Bloomberg would be that much better than Trump. They're skating in on a 'return to normality' hope, when normality is what got Trump in the first place. You're just being set up for future Trumps, and you lose any momentum being contributed by the return to normality folks because as far as they're concerned their Brand of Choice is in charge and anything they do is therefore the right thing to do (so good luck finding those thousands of disappeared kids).

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

... we don't even see Sanders as that radical...up here in Canada, he would be a centrist/moderate, not even really a progressive leftist.

A significant chunk of his 'followers' are sliding all the way to radical. Canada context think Green Party feels with NDP proximity circa Jack Layton having an actual shot at PM. I spent some time reading their reactions to the Biden super tuesday victory and the level of rejection towards 'vote blue no matter who' is startling. I'm not surprised to see people spouting 'fuck the Dems if they steal the nom from Bernie i won't vote, let Trump win'.... that voice has always been out there. But the frequency and 'likes' suggests it's effectively a third voice that's 'democratic party' simply out of a lack of third option.

Biden cannot appeal to that voice. I'm not even sure Warren could (Bloomberg could if he were willing to offer then a million dollars each... what? he can afford it...).

[Cause]

So do we expect Bloomberg to put his money where his mouth is? Is he gonna spend another few hundred million dollars in adds for Biden?

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 04 March 2020 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think you all might be missing something here. A LOT of people only have one criteria for who they will vote for this year. Who has the best chance to beat Trump. That's it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Bernie, but the only thing i care about in 2020 is getting rid of Donald Trump.

I don't think that's Biden to be honest. Shrug.

Slow Ben, on 04 March 2020 - 02:28 PM, said:

And a side note, don't lay all the blame at the DNC for Bernie. The man had strong opening primaries, and then immediately starting attacking everyone.

They attacked him en masse when they realized he had momentum. Becuase they LIKE the establishment where it is. They like corporate shenanigans, and the status quo.

Slow Ben, on 04 March 2020 - 02:28 PM, said:

Trying to get the democratic nomination, while attacking democrats, is not a great fucking strategy. Especially when you have to have the moderate vote to win.

I feel you, but change isn't going to happen with Biden. You kind of have to be like Bernie and blow the doors down.

Vengeance, on 04 March 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

Here is the thing. I would rather have an old windbag then the Nazi that we currently have in office. Also Elizabeth should stay in as long as she wants. Bernie wants her voters then he should fucking earn them. This is the Primary not the General. This is when people have an opportunity to vote for who they want before they are forced into voting for an old windbag. By the way how is Boris working out for you.

I'm Canadian. And I didn't say I would do this...I said that I UNDERSTAND why those people sat out 2016. I simply get the disenfranchisement now (I didn't understand it in 2016). I have voted in every single election in my country and province, even when the options given me were not the ones I'd like.

Is Biden socially better than Trump? Sure. But if you think Trump is the main problem in your country, then I dunno...it seems like he'd be nothing without a compromised Republican Party.

Tiste Simeon, on 04 March 2020 - 02:43 PM, said:

QT is Canadian so Boris isn't doing anything for him

I would like to see Bernie get it but I think Boden has a chance to beat Trump. That's the key.

Personally, and again as an outsider, I think they both have a chance to beat Trump...but I feel like Bernie is better for the USA in the long run since he wants to make things better in various quarters. I think Biden is more status quo, just from the Democratic angle rather than the Republican one. I don't think the US will get M4A under Biden, or any of the other things they should have. I think it just won't be a corrupt nazi administration anymore. The Senate is still widely R, and can just block stuff unless that swings D too...