Tayschrenn
#21
Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:42 PM
I hadn't considered him replacing D'rek but that makes a lot more sense since he went to consult with her... and wasn't Tay part of her cult?
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
#22
Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:29 PM
I believe he was a demi-drek at one point like Banaschar is. All we know for sure about that is Tay and Banaschar are the only priests of hers she didn't kill, or so they make it seem.
#23
Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:02 AM
Varan, on 29 January 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:
...So at the end tay replaces k'rul?...
Interesting theory and his appearance in Kruppe's dream certainly supports it.
I had gone with full blown ascension but not actuallly replacing anyone. And as far as we know, he doesn't have any worshippers
so actual godhood seems unlikey.
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#24
Posted 12 February 2012 - 01:11 PM
the again as far as we know K'rul doesn't have any worshippers and this could be key to the replacement that is taking place
#25
Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:16 PM
Well, he's got Kiska... heheh
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
#26
Posted 16 February 2012 - 04:09 AM
If Tayschrenn (hey the T'renn name just clicked...) has replaced K'rul to some degree could this be related to Icarium's new warrens? New warrens, new creator, new...warren landlord
#27
Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:30 AM
I just finished the book 10 minutes ago and came on here to find out what everyone thought about the last scene. As I read it it seemed like Tayschrenn entered the tomb in Krul's temple/bar in order to somehow take over K'rul's role as maker of paths. No one had been strong enough to take on this role and Tayschrenn wasn't 100% confident that he would succeed when he left Kiska. The fact that he then meets up with Kruppe in the exact same manner that we saw K'rul do throughout GOTM and the dialogue between them just screems K'rul. I would be fairly confident that this is what happened and would be surprised if it was anything else. The T'renn name is interesting (obviously short form of Tayscrenn) and I wonder if the other apostrophed names of the other gods relate to a previous name before they ascended? Also wasn't the ' meant in the T'lan name to describe the Tlan after the vow. Just as the ' in the gods' names signify after ascension? Just some random thoughts.
Overall, best ICE book yet. I like ICE books for a much faster paced read as Erikson would have added another 200-400 pages to tell that same story. And overall, Erikson's method would have been more complete and more developed but the high-paced almost easy read flow of ICE's style is a good break from the high-concentration required reads like TTH!! Which I just reread before reading OST.
Overall, best ICE book yet. I like ICE books for a much faster paced read as Erikson would have added another 200-400 pages to tell that same story. And overall, Erikson's method would have been more complete and more developed but the high-paced almost easy read flow of ICE's style is a good break from the high-concentration required reads like TTH!! Which I just reread before reading OST.
This post has been edited by arbitrage: 17 February 2012 - 11:34 AM
#28
Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:15 PM
I think in the end, the comments between him and Kruppe about where the "other" is and T's response that he is still with him and he has centuries of learning to go make me think K'rul replacement. I just wouldn't think he would need centuries of learning from this "other' if it was D'rek, as he should be pretty learnbed in that area already.
#29
Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:37 PM
K'rul's aspects, what we know of them, were a function of their times.... we're not exactly clear on what his original 'bloody' EG aspect was, then he became the shaper of poaths, and when we see him in GotM and MoI and later he seems to be working with dreams, altho his Keruli avatar had a completely different focus.
I can't see Tays/T'renn having any logical link to any of those.
He was a High Mage of Aral Gamelon, and was rescuing demons from the Vitr, and of course he has Tellan and Thyr and likely elements of Mokra and Meanas that go with it, but exactly how any of that goes to his new role i'm stumped. having walked through the door, he may become something entirely new.
I can't see Tays/T'renn having any logical link to any of those.
He was a High Mage of Aral Gamelon, and was rescuing demons from the Vitr, and of course he has Tellan and Thyr and likely elements of Mokra and Meanas that go with it, but exactly how any of that goes to his new role i'm stumped. having walked through the door, he may become something entirely new.
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#30
Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:39 PM
Could he become the new guardian of KT/KL? No?
Ok then carry on with your business
Ok then carry on with your business
#31
Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:28 PM
As much as it doesn't seem to fit, it also does.
He ascends through events that must have happened in that tomb under K'Rul's temple, so that right there implies a connection to him. Plus the convo between Kruppe and T'renn has some implying comments with the "other" , T's new name, the fact that he is in Kruppe's dream at all, etc.
I mean there are really only three options as far as we know right now:
Replace K'Rul
Replace D'rek
New place in the pantheon and T'renn is just an ascended Tayschrenn with no connection to an exisitng god.
K'rul replacement is still my bet.
He ascends through events that must have happened in that tomb under K'Rul's temple, so that right there implies a connection to him. Plus the convo between Kruppe and T'renn has some implying comments with the "other" , T's new name, the fact that he is in Kruppe's dream at all, etc.
I mean there are really only three options as far as we know right now:
Replace K'Rul
Replace D'rek
New place in the pantheon and T'renn is just an ascended Tayschrenn with no connection to an exisitng god.
K'rul replacement is still my bet.
#32
Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:56 AM
I dont think hes replacing Drek. Ive just finished this section on a reread. It seems that Tay believes he has been manipulated into this decision by many gods, including Drek, and that no one else can do it because theyre committed elsewhere i.e. Kolanse. Tay then goes on to say that Krul may fail as he is wounded and this can not be allowed. So it seems its linked to Krul as its also under his belfry. We also see him acting when the integrity of the warrens is ruptured in ROCTG. Tay is well known for waiting out political crises but was forced to act by Yath when he created the Whorl. So Tay has a vested interest in maintaining the balance.
I actually think he will be serving Krul rather than replacing him. Serving might be the wrong word but atleast helping him heal. When Tay jumps of the cliff to talk to Drek and Kiska meets that old woman who suggests that serving is what everyone has forgotten I initially thought she was talking about Kiska's serving Tay. In ROTCG Kiska makes a point that shes serves Tay because of a higher purpose whereas the Claw serve only themselves, hence her leaving the Claw. However on a reread I think this woman is Krul, as when Tay gets back he claims Kiska must have dreamed the old woman but tells Kiska to tell him what the old woman said.
I dunno it just sort of fits that he would be serving Krul from now on, taking on a role as a guardian of the warrens. Either that or I still quite like him as the long term guardian of KT/KL as the QOD had a hand in it.
I actually think he will be serving Krul rather than replacing him. Serving might be the wrong word but atleast helping him heal. When Tay jumps of the cliff to talk to Drek and Kiska meets that old woman who suggests that serving is what everyone has forgotten I initially thought she was talking about Kiska's serving Tay. In ROTCG Kiska makes a point that shes serves Tay because of a higher purpose whereas the Claw serve only themselves, hence her leaving the Claw. However on a reread I think this woman is Krul, as when Tay gets back he claims Kiska must have dreamed the old woman but tells Kiska to tell him what the old woman said.
I dunno it just sort of fits that he would be serving Krul from now on, taking on a role as a guardian of the warrens. Either that or I still quite like him as the long term guardian of KT/KL as the QOD had a hand in it.
#33
Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:36 PM
If he was gonna replace D'rek, I figure it probably would have happened when he was talking with D'rek at the Holy of Holies.
'All Eres were bonecasters, Trull Sengar. For they were the first to carry the spark of awareness, the first so gifted by the spirits.'
#34
Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:25 PM
public/style_images/malazan/snapback.pngMidnight, on 18 February 2012 - 05:16 PM, on the K'rul thread said:
"It definitely seems feasible that gods (particularly elder gods) can change their forms and genders. The only thing that I find jarring is that ICE seems to give the idea that K'rul is a woman special weight. I don't have the book with me but when Spindle asks if K'rul is male doesn't someone (Fisher?) state categorically that he's a woman? It almost sounds like K'rul 'prime" gender so to speak is female and he/she has just been masquerading as a man.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just confusing as there doesn't seem to be much reason for it...though perhaps that's still to come..."
I think these two conversations need to be linked. Midnight has something about ICE wanting us to focus on K'rul's ability to appear as a woman. This helps us to solve the riddle of Tayschrenn.
Ta da!
"It definitely seems feasible that gods (particularly elder gods) can change their forms and genders. The only thing that I find jarring is that ICE seems to give the idea that K'rul is a woman special weight. I don't have the book with me but when Spindle asks if K'rul is male doesn't someone (Fisher?) state categorically that he's a woman? It almost sounds like K'rul 'prime" gender so to speak is female and he/she has just been masquerading as a man.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing it's just confusing as there doesn't seem to be much reason for it...though perhaps that's still to come..."
tiam, on 20 February 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:
I dont think hes replacing Drek. Ive just finished this section on a reread. It seems that Tay believes he has been manipulated into this decision by many gods, including Drek, and that no one else can do it because theyre committed elsewhere i.e. Kolanse. Tay then goes on to say that Krul may fail as he is wounded and this can not be allowed. So it seems its linked to Krul as its also under his belfry. We also see him acting when the integrity of the warrens is ruptured in ROCTG. Tay is well known for waiting out political crises but was forced to act by Yath when he created the Whorl. So Tay has a vested interest in maintaining the balance.
I actually think he will be serving Krul rather than replacing him. Serving might be the wrong word but atleast helping him heal. When Tay jumps of the cliff to talk to Drek and Kiska meets that old woman who suggests that serving is what everyone has forgotten I initially thought she was talking about Kiska's serving Tay. In ROTCG Kiska makes a point that shes serves Tay because of a higher purpose whereas the Claw serve only themselves, hence her leaving the Claw. However on a reread I think this woman is Krul, as when Tay gets back he claims Kiska must have dreamed the old woman but tells Kiska to tell him what the old woman said.
I dunno it just sort of fits that he would be serving Krul from now on, taking on a role as a guardian of the warrens. Either that or I still quite like him as the long term guardian of KT/KL as the QOD had a hand in it.
I actually think he will be serving Krul rather than replacing him. Serving might be the wrong word but atleast helping him heal. When Tay jumps of the cliff to talk to Drek and Kiska meets that old woman who suggests that serving is what everyone has forgotten I initially thought she was talking about Kiska's serving Tay. In ROTCG Kiska makes a point that shes serves Tay because of a higher purpose whereas the Claw serve only themselves, hence her leaving the Claw. However on a reread I think this woman is Krul, as when Tay gets back he claims Kiska must have dreamed the old woman but tells Kiska to tell him what the old woman said.
I dunno it just sort of fits that he would be serving Krul from now on, taking on a role as a guardian of the warrens. Either that or I still quite like him as the long term guardian of KT/KL as the QOD had a hand in it.
I think these two conversations need to be linked. Midnight has something about ICE wanting us to focus on K'rul's ability to appear as a woman. This helps us to solve the riddle of Tayschrenn.
Ta da!
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
#35
Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:30 AM
Hmm well I'm not sure I entirely see the connection but I suppose it maybe lends credence to the idea that Tayschrenn isn't replacing K'rul in his entirety, just an aspect of him...maybe K'rul (the female aspect) is getting a new male aspect (Tayschrenn) and discarding the one we've seen in Erikson's books..
#36
Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:56 AM
Midnight, on 23 February 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:
Hmm well I'm not sure I entirely see the connection but I suppose it maybe lends credence to the idea that Tayschrenn isn't replacing K'rul in his entirety, just an aspect of him...maybe K'rul (the female aspect) is getting a new male aspect (Tayschrenn) and discarding the one we've seen in Erikson's books..
I think we see here the reason why ICE did the gender switch on K'rul and then wanted to push the issue. We were meant to see K'rul as the one giving Kiska the message about serving.
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
#37
Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:26 AM
Well, in MoI it is K'Rul's POV used in the confrontation of the the 3 EG's with Kallor, and in that K'Rul is most definitely a 'He'.
"The harder the world, the fiercer the honour" - Dancer
#38
Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:24 AM
It's debates like these that make me wonder how much SE uses the forum for ideas, maybe we're just writing the story for him!
I'm going to be reading these books for the rest of my life trying to catch every little secret and plot detail...and i'm ok with that :D
#39
Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:35 AM
The Pack, on 24 February 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:
It's debates like these that make me wonder how much SE uses the forum for ideas, maybe we're just writing the story for him!
If ICE reads these forums he might have his Assail/Jacuruku have all the Stormrider, Tyrant, other vague plotlines tie together.
I cant wait for the Tyrants on Assail to lament about their second cousin who went to Genabackis on vacation but liked it so much that he stayed there. Said Tyrants will then ride around on their mounts, made of waves, and order their aquatic butlers to do their bidding and further lament about how that aquatic destruction company he hired hasnt turned up after leaving for that job near Korel...
#40
Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:07 PM
yes, everything we have read about K'rul up until this book plainly shows him as Male, beginning with the part Paran is talking about, both Draconus and Sister Chill refer to him as brother or so forth. He is definitely make in all of Kruppe's dreams, his avatar is male, everything we have read about the warrens refers to His lifeblood.
I'm still thrown as to why ICE would make him female in this book, the more I think about it the less sense it makes. The closest thing to a reasonable idea is Midnight's post but even then......I don't know, he will always be Male when I think of him.
I'm still thrown as to why ICE would make him female in this book, the more I think about it the less sense it makes. The closest thing to a reasonable idea is Midnight's post but even then......I don't know, he will always be Male when I think of him.