[QuickTidal]

MuttonChops, on 16 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Finished The Great Hunt yesterday and then took a quick detour through the land of non-fiction with The Last Lecture, the wife had been on me to read it and it was quite moving. Now with that finished I'm moving on with my first reading of the Wheel of Time series with The Dragon Reborn. I am enjoying it so far but I have heard that it loses quality in the mid books.

The one you are reading and the one that follows it (THE FIRES OF HEAVEN) are great (some of the best RJ ever did), the 5th and 6th books are just okay (the 6th, however, contains a really epic battle!), but that's when things really slow down, and don't improve until Sanderson took over with THE GATHERING STORM. Books 8, 9, 10, and even some of 11, not a lot really happens and characters get really annoying...but not to worry, if you can slog through those, the series gets exponentially better once Sanderson took the reigns. If you at all get annoyed by the mid books you can totally skip book 10 (CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT) without missing much of a beat and ask one of us who has read it to tell you the ONE thing that happens in that book that is worthwhile, then you can move onto KNIFE Of DREAMS which has bad bits too, but things started to happen again at least.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 16 December 2011 - 03:28 PM

[End of Disc One]

Honestly Wheel of Time 4-6 is the highlight of the series. Book 5, The Fires of Heaven, is my personal favorite. 7-11 is the low point.

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 16 December 2011 - 05:03 PM

[ansible]

QuickTidal, on 16 December 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

MuttonChops, on 16 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Finished The Great Hunt yesterday and then took a quick detour through the land of non-fiction with The Last Lecture, the wife had been on me to read it and it was quite moving. Now with that finished I'm moving on with my first reading of the Wheel of Time series with The Dragon Reborn. I am enjoying it so far but I have heard that it loses quality in the mid books.

The one you are reading and the one that follows it (THE FIRES OF HEAVEN) are great (some of the best RJ ever did), the 5th and 6th books are just okay (the 6th, however, contains a really epic battle!), but that's when things really slow down, and don't improve until Sanderson took over with THE GATHERING STORM. Books 8, 9, 10, and even some of 11, not a lot really happens and characters get really annoying...but not to worry, if you can slog through those, the series gets exponentially better once Sanderson took the reigns. If you at all get annoyed by the mid books you can totally skip book 10 (CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT) without missing much of a beat and ask one of us who has read it to tell you the ONE thing that happens in that book that is worthwhile, then you can move onto KNIFE Of DREAMS which has bad bits too, but things started to happen again at least.

Just a note, The Shadow Risiing (book 4) follows TDR, and then The Fires of Heaven (book 5) follows TSR.

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 16 December 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

Honestly Wheel of Time 4-6 is the highlight of the series. Book 5, The Fires of Heaven, is my personal favorite. 7-11 is the low point.

^^This, me too.

[QuickTidal]

ansible, on 16 December 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 December 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

MuttonChops, on 16 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Finished The Great Hunt yesterday and then took a quick detour through the land of non-fiction with The Last Lecture, the wife had been on me to read it and it was quite moving. Now with that finished I'm moving on with my first reading of the Wheel of Time series with The Dragon Reborn. I am enjoying it so far but I have heard that it loses quality in the mid books.

The one you are reading and the one that follows it (THE FIRES OF HEAVEN) are great (some of the best RJ ever did), the 5th and 6th books are just okay (the 6th, however, contains a really epic battle!), but that's when things really slow down, and don't improve until Sanderson took over with THE GATHERING STORM. Books 8, 9, 10, and even some of 11, not a lot really happens and characters get really annoying...but not to worry, if you can slog through those, the series gets exponentially better once Sanderson took the reigns. If you at all get annoyed by the mid books you can totally skip book 10 (CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT) without missing much of a beat and ask one of us who has read it to tell you the ONE thing that happens in that book that is worthwhile, then you can move onto KNIFE Of DREAMS which has bad bits too, but things started to happen again at least.

Just a note, The Shadow Risiing (book 4) follows TDR, and then The Fires of Heaven (book 5) follows TSR.

Ah right. Sorry, Thanks for the correction.

[Captain Beardface]

QuickTidal, on 16 December 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

ansible, on 16 December 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 December 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

MuttonChops, on 16 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Finished The Great Hunt yesterday and then took a quick detour through the land of non-fiction with The Last Lecture, the wife had been on me to read it and it was quite moving. Now with that finished I'm moving on with my first reading of the Wheel of Time series with The Dragon Reborn. I am enjoying it so far but I have heard that it loses quality in the mid books.

The one you are reading and the one that follows it (THE FIRES OF HEAVEN) are great (some of the best RJ ever did), the 5th and 6th books are just okay (the 6th, however, contains a really epic battle!), but that's when things really slow down, and don't improve until Sanderson took over with THE GATHERING STORM. Books 8, 9, 10, and even some of 11, not a lot really happens and characters get really annoying...but not to worry, if you can slog through those, the series gets exponentially better once Sanderson took the reigns. If you at all get annoyed by the mid books you can totally skip book 10 (CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT) without missing much of a beat and ask one of us who has read it to tell you the ONE thing that happens in that book that is worthwhile, then you can move onto KNIFE Of DREAMS which has bad bits too, but things started to happen again at least.

Just a note, The Shadow Risiing (book 4) follows TDR, and then The Fires of Heaven (book 5) follows TSR.

Ah right. Sorry, Thanks for the correction.

That pretty much falls in line with what I've heard and read here on the forums previously. I'm hoping that with my reading speed and working on my Master's will make it such that I can read the thing straight through to the end, which will hopefully alleviate the dullness of the lesser quality books. I got sucked into this by a friend at work badgering me about not reading WoT when I've read so much other fantasy and the fact that the 1st book was only $2.99 on my nook and had a different cover. I've slogged my way through some crap books before so I have hope that I can make it through.

[JLV]

They're really not crap books, though.

Even the slower, not-particularly-good-plot-wise books are much better than a lot of other fantasy.

[Tattersail_]

JLV, on 20 December 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

They're really not crap books, though.

Even the slower, not-particularly-good-plot-wise books are much better than a lot of other fantasy.

I agree with you, I enjoyed all the books but some were better than others. It is definately worth it just to read TGS and ToM though as these are just amazing. The first six and the last 3 are awesome. (The last one isn't out yet but I still think it will be).

[QuickTidal]

Tattersail, on 20 December 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

JLV, on 20 December 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

They're really not crap books, though.

Even the slower, not-particularly-good-plot-wise books are much better than a lot of other fantasy.

I agree with you, I enjoyed all the books but some were better than others. It is definately worth it just to read TGS and ToM though as these are just amazing. The first six and the last 3 are awesome. (The last one isn't out yet but I still think it will be).

Indeed. I just think that the pace slows way down and things don't happen much in the lesser volumes, they are still decent enough parts of the story (and not crap, perse), you just expect more to happen in 800-900 page books is all. They are well padded.

[Tattersail_]

You could argue they need to be, the world is so big and the spread so far apart that you need so many words to create the feel of doom, the darkness gathering in Rand, the intergration of all the races of people, what's happening in different parts of the world, what sort of things are happening with the bad guys. I guess you may like it to be a bit more fast paced, same with other people but for me I wouldn't have continued if it didn't peak my interest and keep it there. I liked reading about Tuon for example. I mention three book series Malazan, WoT and Harry Potter as my all time favourites. (Although Dresden is rapidly climbing up the list). Personal taste though. Malazan is my number one.

[Abyss]

(MODGOD aside to note If this goes on much longer i'll shift the posts to a new thread in the RJ/BS subforum.)

Arguably, WoT books 7-10 could be cut down to one awesome book with no negative impact.

It's not that each entire book is crap, rather it's that there is SO MUCH filler and none-movement in between each moment of awesome. Sure, stuff and even important stuff happens in each book, but in most it was 600ish pages of braid pulling, skirt smoothing, Aes Sedai plotting, pointless political maneuvering, Forsaken standing in corners chuckling evilly and Rand or Perrin angsting about whatever while Matt complains about not getting laid women, then FINALLY something awesome happens in the last 25 pages or so, which tends to really bring home the point that the reader just waded through 600 pages of braid pulling etc just for that one glorious moment where Nyneave stops whining, smacks Rand upside the head then yanks out her own braid and uses it to duel six Shadowfriend blademasters into minced meat which she then bakes into a pie and express posts to the Shadow with a postcard that reads 'You're next'.


- Abyss, may have fudged detail or two there.

[Use Of Weapons]

I do feel that in WoT, the sense of acheivement when a plot thread is resolved is commensurate with the time invested in that plot in the books. For some of the threads, a lot of fantasy authors would have given us neat resolutions within the same book, or at least in the book after the situation was set up. One of the pleasures of WoT, for me, is the drawn-out nature of some of the plot situations, that made them feel much more real than many 'just-so' resolutions. In additions, the sheer weight of words that lead up those character moments make them amazingly cathartic when they do happen. My favourite example, and there are many, is

Spoiler

Egwene's hatred and fear of a'dam, set up in TGH and only resolved in ToM. Second favourite is Nynaeve's block, set up in TEotW and resolved in CoS

[QuickTidal]

UseOfWeapons, on 20 December 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

I do feel that in WoT, the sense of acheivement when a plot thread is resolved is commensurate with the time invested in that plot in the books. For some of the threads, a lot of fantasy authors would have given us neat resolutions within the same book, or at least in the book after the situation was set up. One of the pleasures of WoT, for me, is the drawn-out nature of some of the plot situations, that made them feel much more real than many 'just-so' resolutions. In additions, the sheer weight of words that lead up those character moments make them amazingly cathartic when they do happen. My favourite example, and there are many, is

Spoiler

Egwene's hatred and fear of a'dam, set up in TGH and only resolved in ToM. Second favourite is Nynaeve's block, set up in TEotW and resolved in CoS

Spoiler

Seconding Nynaeve's block. That was easily one of my fave moments in the whole series and it really does work so well because of the amount of time invested.

[Abyss]

Nyneave's Moments of Awesome were generally among the shining good bits in the 7-10 stretch.

[McLovin]

The first five get progressively better. I think #4 is my favorite, because it gives you the full backstory of what really happened in AoL. But in those books you had a sense things were going somewhere.

#6 is your first clue the wheels are starting to spin, but you get Dumai's Wells at the end which is Asha'manfucknuts awesome. Plus you are introduced to the True Power and Shaidar Haran. So I gave RJ a mulligan on that one.

Then...it falls off the cliff of crap.

I haven't read anything past Winter's Heart (or maybe the next one, I can't remember, after #7 it all runs together), but when A Memory of Light comes out, I will go to the bookstore, read the last few chapters, put it back on the shelf, and content myself with knowing the end of WoT.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

JLV, on 20 December 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

They're really not crap books, though.

Even the slower, not-particularly-good-plot-wise books are much better than a lot of other fantasy.

I kinda stopped reading once I got to a post I wanted to reply to, so sorry if I cover something that someone's just said.

It's my opinion that you're more likely to not enjoy certain books in the series if you've had to wait for them. I'm not going to justify that if quotes and references and shit, but I've read a lot of people's opinions over time and it seems to be a fair enough assertion to make.

The first one I had to wait for was...KOD...maybe, so I was able to read all of the 'rubbish' books consecutively and without pause. While I do agree that they are most definitely slower and more tedious in places (AHEM, PERRIN) than the rest, I loved them just as much and found that other parts of them made up for those shitier (as in 'shitey', not 'shitter', or i'd have spelt it properly) bits for the books to be equally as interesting as the rest of the series.

[QuickTidal]

McLovin, on 20 December 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

The first five get progressively better. I think #4 is my favorite, because it gives you the full backstory of what really happened in AoL. But in those books you had a sense things were going somewhere.

#6 is your first clue the wheels are starting to spin, but you get Dumai's Wells at the end which is Asha'manfucknuts awesome. Plus you are introduced to the True Power and Shaidar Haran. So I gave RJ a mulligan on that one.

Then...it falls off the cliff of crap.

I haven't read anything past Winter's Heart (or maybe the next one, I can't remember, after #7 it all runs together), but when A Memory of Light comes out, I will go to the bookstore, read the last few chapters, put it back on the shelf, and content myself with knowing the end of WoT.

You are missing out on THE GATHERING STORM (my second fave in the entire series) and TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT as Sanderson brought back the awesome to the series!

[McLovin]

Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast, on 21 December 2011 - 12:06 AM, said:

It's my opinion that you're more likely to not enjoy certain books in the series if you've had to wait for them.

My experience is that the wait can be forgiven if the quality is there. See Dragons, A Dance with.

I have had to wait for every WoT book since the first. The waiting only heightened my enjoyment of books 2-6. And actually, the waits were never unreasonably long even after RJ's health declined. So waiting is not the issue here, at least not for me. It's the fact that the plot fell into suspended animation while Faile and Perrin chased each other (was there ever a more appropriately named character than FAILe?) and various groups of females had repressed-lesbo spanking sessions.

[QuickTidal]

McLovin, on 21 December 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast, on 21 December 2011 - 12:06 AM, said:

It's my opinion that you're more likely to not enjoy certain books in the series if you've had to wait for them.

My experience is that the wait can be forgiven if the quality is there. [i]See[/i] Dragons, A Dance with.

The last 300 pages yes...but the first 900 were as bloated and padded as anything in mid-WOT.

[McLovin]

QuickTidal, on 21 December 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

The last 300 pages yes...but the first 900 were as bloated and padded as anything in mid-WOT.

Touche, especially as related to Dany's plotline, but at least GRRM can (so far) write characters that don't make you want to claw your eyes out of sheer boredom and annoyance.