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#501 User is offline   Zeto Demerzel 

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 03:45 AM

Just finished Warhawak (Siege of Terra 6) and thought it was spectacular. The sample size is limited but Chris Wraight is now up there with Abnett and ABD in my books.

A couple more books in the series, I think, and then I can move on to Gaunt's Ghosts without going on a guilt trip.
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#502 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 14 November 2021 - 06:54 PM

I don't think I'll return to Gaunts Ghosts, so I've started reading the Horus Heresy instead.

I'm halfway into the first book and it's honestly pretty boring. My main problem with The Gaunt books was that it all seemed a bit too grounded and not extreme enough. I picked up Horus Heresy expecting something more over the top given the subject but it's more of the same, leading me to conclude that the real problem isn't me, it's Dan Abnett.

Dan Abnett is a boring writer who spends too much time trying to write faux Space WW2 war stories instead of Rock Hard Science Fantasy Grim Dark Cartoonish Action Horror, which is the setting I built in my head after reading a hundred Wikipedia articles 15 years ago.

I want a book about Space Marines to be no more than a hundred pages of non stop scenery chewing pulpy cheese, where every paragraph is violence and every character exchange involves the words "For the Emperor!" and "Die, Heretic Scum!".
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#503 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 14 November 2021 - 07:08 PM

View PostAptorian, on 14 November 2021 - 06:54 PM, said:

, leading me to conclude that the real problem isn't me, it's Dan Abnett.


Nah, itís you.
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#504 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 14 November 2021 - 07:15 PM

Nuh uh.
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#505 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 01:08 AM

Calling Abnett boring means the issue is 100% with Aptorian.
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#506 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 06:09 PM

Back into the Heresy with Betrayer.
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#507 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 08:06 PM

View PostMacros, on 15 November 2021 - 06:09 PM, said:

Back into the Heresy with Betrayer.


... are you referring to Apt? :huh:
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#508 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 08:34 AM

Just finished the Unremembered Empire, by Abnett.

Curze is a piece of work!

Spoilers, generic to the heresy and 40k in general with a speculative question or two

Spoiler


Stepping out for a bit to read some other stuff, but I'm probably gonna get caught up on the heresy by this time next year
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#509 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 10:27 AM

I finished the first book in the Horus Heresy, Horus Rising. Making my way into book two: False Gods.

I did not like this first book much from a stand alone point of view or as an entry to a series. The structure is clunky and most things just sort of happen, with little over all build up. You could argue that this is because the book centers on the character of Logen, first, and the universe second. If I was a first time reader of Warhammer and didn't know anything about the universe I doubt I would read any more. But I guess the point is that most of the prospective readers will know of the tale of Horus and the Heresy and as such, it's table dressing and fan service for those who are already invested.

There's surprisingly little action in the book for a space marine book but I do enjoy seeing the space marines through the eyes of the supporting cast of historians and artists.

Also very curious how "innocent" they all seem. Mostly ignorant of chaos and magic or "The Warp" and "Warp entities" as they call them. I thought the birth of Slaanesh and the Eye of Terror happened before the Horus Heresy but there's not much chaos to be found anywhere. Or if there is, the Primarchs keep it secret even from their Astartes commanders. I think that might change in book 2 but we'll see. In general I'd thought there was plenty of chaos activity before the empire fell into darkness but now I assume it actually happens during the Heresy?

Love the beginning schism between religious fanatics and those solely driven by the logic of the emperors commandment. It all seems so inevitable. And now in book two it's revealed that:

Spoiler


Not sure about Horus. I love how "angelic" he seems most of the time, practically radiant, a power house of a super human but there's also a kind of innocent ignorance to his character that I don't like. I always feel like authors walk a fine line when they want to impress upon the reader how superhumanly capable and intelligent a character is, because when they then try to sell a storyline about them not seeing or understanding something that seems obvious from the readers perspective, it becomes frustrating, rather than thrilling.
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#510 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 02:04 PM

Regards the Slaanesh thing. That was the age of darkness or whatever humanity had spread across the universe then bam that happened and cut everyone off and tech crashed and records were simply not kept. Average joe doesn't know who or why is happened, it just is a thing, Imagine the fall of Rome, but you aren't why the empire crumbled hell you aren't even told Rome has fallen, order just crumbled and you're in the dark ages, in fact you were brought up in the dark ages so know no better. The Emperor certainly knows the score but its kept from pretty much everyone. An awful lot of the shit that goes wrong I lay squarely at the feet of the Emperor.
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#511 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:55 PM

The Emperor definitely kept things secret that might have helped others not stumble into some of the traps of Chaos. Then again, the Emperor also had blind spots regarding chaos and faith since He believed you could starve chaos out by denying them worship - it doesn't work that way sadly - and His hatred of religion is immense. Of course the point of the Heresy is that it's a tragedy so bad things will happen. Some characters, like Khor Phaeron and F****ING Erebus are rotten to begin with, others think they know better than the Emperor and screw things up and so on. Some of the Emperor's decisions also seem baffling but I think they need to be looked at from the perspective of someone who's been alive since the dawn of humanity more or less. When He fucks off to the Palace and leaves Horus in charge of the Crusade, or does the ban at Nikae, the event at Monarchia, using Angron and Curze despite their obvious issues, for Him these are all short term things. As far as He's concerned He stepped out for 5 minutes to tend to a thing while leaving a hole patched with duct tape and the next thing He knows, the house is flooded and there are flaming sharks in the water.

It's unclear to what extent He could predict the future. He might have known He didn't have a lot of time to accomplish His goals but not enough to realize that the temporary solutions to some problems would be the things that mean He doesn't have a lot of time.


Don't be fooled by Horus into thinking he's naïve. He's a sneaky one, using the Mournival to seem more reasonable (that scene when Loken attends his first meeting as a member) and he's got a big ego and fragile pride.

Chaos is a thing, the birth of Slaanesh killed the Eldar Empire and calmed the Warp storms that were keeping humanity scattered and isolated. As the series goes on, you'll see the corruption take hold. Corruption, degradation and insanity. The reasons for giving in varying from pride, to desire for power, to a genuine belief that only through the powers and worship of Chaos can humanity survive and thrive (these nuts are most deluded of them all).

@Macros Regarding the spoilers.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Garak: 25 November 2021 - 07:56 PM

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#512 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 08:01 PM

View PostAptorian, on 25 November 2021 - 10:27 AM, said:

There's surprisingly little action in the book for a space marine book but I do enjoy seeing the space marines through the eyes of the supporting cast of historians and artists.


This is inarguably my favourite facet of that first book.
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#513 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 09:32 PM

The books that positioned the warp and demon fighting as the primary goal of the emperor did a bit better with the story of why a super powerful being would just toss the other extremely bad shit aside to deal with the main thing.

I generally buy into that because it makes sense, especially when combined with Magnus, the repeated importance of psychic powers, and the scale of how bad the Horus Heresy was.
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#514 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 27 November 2021 - 01:13 PM

I accept it as part of the narrative and required to make the story happen (like Lasseen is a terrible empress, I will fight you if you disagree)
For such a superpower he sure does get easily manipulated, see Nikae for a prime example, I'd lay Magnus' tale at his feet too.

its not a thing in the grand scheme its part of the story, just the type of loose plot hole that every series this size will have, in fact almost NEEDS, to let the rest of the stories happen
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#515 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 27 November 2021 - 03:54 PM

Doesn't help that most of this was a short background page in the rulebook for a good while. And suddenly you have to make a short blurb about half the Legions going traitor into a full blown story. Some bits will be a bit shaky.
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#516 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 29 November 2021 - 08:41 AM

Did a light Google search, don't want spoilers.
So the Horus Heresy Series is finished at 54 books, and then we have the siege of Terra getting its own series with what..7? Books?

Think I'm about halfway through the Heresy
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#517 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 12:36 PM

Finished Vengeful Spirit.

Gaping plothole ho!

Spoiler

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#518 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 03:33 PM

Yeah I have no clue. They should have written that as impossible to close and needing guarding at all times and would have been better.
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#519 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 07:44 AM

Oh lawd! It's happening! Blessed be the Emperor!


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#520 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 12:56 PM

Is this a sequel to the Ultramarines movie with Terrence stamp? Cause it was fucking awful
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