[Aptorian]

http://abcnews.go.co...l-died-15185456

Quote

North Korea: Kim Jong Il Dead, Son Is 'Successor'

By RAFAEL WOBER Associated Press
PYONGYANG, North Korea December 19, 2011 (AP)

North Korea announced the death of supreme leader Kim Jong Il and urged its people to rally behind his young son and heir-apparent Monday, while the world watched warily for signs of instability in a nation pursuing nuclear weapons.

South Korea, anxious about the untested, 20-something Kim Jong Un after his father's 17-year rule, put its military on high alert against the North's 1.2 million-strong armed forces. President Barack Obama agreed by phone with South Korean President Lee Myung-bak to closely monitor developments.

People on the streets of the North Korean capital, Pyongyang, wailed in grief, some kneeling on the ground or bowing repeatedly as they learned the news that their "dear general" had died of heart failure Saturday at age 69 while carrying out official duties on a train trip.

"How could the heavens be so cruel? Please come back, general. We cannot believe you're gone," Hong Son Ok shouted in an interview with North Korea's official television, her body shaking wildly.

"He passed away too suddenly to our profound regret," said a statement carried by the North's official Korean Central News Agency. "The heart of Kim Jong Il stopped beating, but his noble and august name and benevolent image will always be remembered by our army and people."

While there was no immediate statement on official succession, indications were clear that Kim Jong Un, the third son of Kim Jong Il, would be in charge.

The North said in a dispatch that the people and the military "have pledged to uphold the leadership of comrade Kim Jong Un" and called him a "great successor" of the country's revolutionary philosophy of juche, or self reliance.

The death could set back efforts by the United States and others to get Pyongyang to abandon its nuclear weapons ambitions, because the untested successor may seek to avoid any perceived weakness as he moves to consolidate control.

"The situation could become extremely volatile. What the North Korean military does in the next 24-48 hours will be decisive," said Bill Richardson, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who has made several high-profile visits to North Korea.

The death comes at a sensitive time for North Korea as it prepares for next year's 100th anniversary of the birth of founder Kim Il Sung — Kim Jong Il's father. The preparations include massive construction projects throughout the city as part of Kim Jong Il's unfulfilled promise to bring prosperity to his people.

Seoul and Washington will worry that Kim Jong Un "may feel it necessary in the future to precipitate a crisis to prove his mettle to other senior leaders," according to Bruce Klingner, an Asia analyst at The Heritage Foundation think tank in Washington.

North Korea conducted at least one short-range missile test Monday, a South Korean official said. But South Korea's military sees the firing as part of a scheduled routine drill, instead of a provocation, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of a policy that bans commenting on intelligence matters.

North Korea conducted two nuclear tests in 2006 and 2009 and is thought to have enough plutonium for at least a half-dozen weapons. But experts doubt that the North has mastered the miniaturization technology to mount a nuclear warhead on a missile.

In Seoul, parliamentary official Lee Kyu-yun said he was thinking of stocking up food in case of soaring military tensions.

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It's a hard thing to say that you're happy that another human being is dead but good riddance you fucking heartless monster.

Now excuse me as I do a little dance.

(and hope his successor doesn't plunge the peninsula into war)

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 19 December 2011 - 10:04 PM

[Tattersail_]

What do you think will happen? This has so me a tiny bit worried. They have one of the biggest armies in the world, they may have nuclear weapons. The thought of what could happen is a worrying one. Who knows what his son is like and what he may want?

[Gust Hubb]

Isn't there concern over a war of succession between the kids?

[Tapper]

As far as I know, the youngest one has been named successor after a year of grooming by Kim Jong-Il, and he has been named the new leader on the state tv already. I think it is in the interest of all who were part of Kim Jong-Il's circle of sycophants (mostly military and courtiers) to achieve a smooth take-over... a civil war would loosen their grasp over country and/or people and it seems fairly sure China would intervene, which would be the end of any regime. Basically, if they sit quiet and play all is well, China will leave them be.

As for a war between siblings: I'm pretty sure his two brothers will lead a life of splendor behind the scenes, it is not like governing that country is that much fun when you can skip the official outings and resort to leaning back with a drink and a pretty girl feeding you grapes.

[QuickTidal]

My hope is that this is one of those situations where the head being cut off the snake causes it to wither and die (meaning North Korea as a menacing nuclear power), and that it doesn't become a situation where a stronger head grows in place of the first to a greater tyranny.

At any rate, above all else, I'd love for the North Korean's to finally be able to look at a future that won't be under a powerful and insane dictator. I'd like to see the upper echelon of Jong-Il's people disbanded and the country to follow South Korean influences. The chances of that happening might be slim though.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 December 2011 - 02:34 PM

[Tapper]

QuickTidal, on 19 December 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

My hope is that this is one of those situations where the head being cut off the snake causes it to wither and die (meaning North Korea as a menacing nuclear power), and that it doesn't become a sitatuin where a stronger head grows in place of the first.

At any rate, above all else, I'd love for the North Korean's to finally be able to look at a future that won't be under a powerful and insane dictator. I'd like to see the upper echelon of Jong-Il's people disbanded and the country to follow South Korean influences. The chances of that happening might be slim though.

The facts:
The North Korean elite can only lose with any loosening of the regime.
Any loosening of the regime will lessen dependance on China.
Any significant loss of influence over the country deprives China of its only satellite.
Any change will bring chaos, and South Korea is then menaced or sucked into the conflict.
The US may want the North Korean leadership out, but considering the country is a nuclear power (or on the road to being a nuclear military power), the last thing they'll want is enriched uranium or nuclear bomb parts being sold to the highest bidder in a country in ruins.

Any change is going to be very, very gradual and my cynical mindset says it is much better for the stability in the region to let it all be the same - with the North Korean people as losers.

As for insane leaders... the father Kim Il-sung, was a fairly decent leader, apparently the North Korean people were better off economically than the southern equivalent up until the seventies (40 years ago, but hey ). It is Jong-Il (and perhaps also the end of the cold war) that brought the country to the ruin it is now. With that in mind, the son does not look much better.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 19 December 2011 - 02:40 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tapper, on 19 December 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 December 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

My hope is that this is one of those situations where the head being cut off the snake causes it to wither and die (meaning North Korea as a menacing nuclear power), and that it doesn't become a sitatuin where a stronger head grows in place of the first.

At any rate, above all else, I'd love for the North Korean's to finally be able to look at a future that won't be under a powerful and insane dictator. I'd like to see the upper echelon of Jong-Il's people disbanded and the country to follow South Korean influences. The chances of that happening might be slim though.

The facts:
The North Korean elite can only lose with any loosening of the regime.
Any loosening of the regime will lessen dependance on China.
Any significant loss of influence over the country deprives China of its only satellite.
Any change will bring chaos, and South Korea is then menaced or sucked into the conflict.
The US may want the North Korean leadership out, but considering the country is a nuclear power (or on the road to being a nuclear military power), the last thing they'll want is enriched uranium or nuclear bomb parts being sold to the highest bidder in a country in ruins.

Any change is going to be very, very gradual and my cynical mindset says it is much better for the stability in the region to let it all be the same - with the North Korean people as losers.

As for insane leaders... the father Kim Il-sung, was a fairly decent leader, apparently the North Korean people were better off economically than the southern equivalent up until the seventies (40 years ago, but hey ). It is Jong-Il (and perhaps also the end of the cold war) that brought the country to the ruin it is now. With that in mind, the son does not look much better.

Quite sad really.

[Tattersail_]

And if the son wants to go batshit crazy?

[alt146]

Well, this website won't be getting many more updates: http://kimjongillook...ngs.tumblr.com/

On a serious note, I doubt things will change much from the established status quo. As great as it would be to see a peaceful revolution of some kind, the chances of that happening are slim and there's a very real possibility that most of N Korea's (possibly nuclear) arsenal would disappear into the black market in the process.

[Tapper]

Tattersail, on 19 December 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

And if the son wants to go batshit crazy?

His generals will tell him to go and announce another public holiday where he can look at painstakingly trained choreographies.

I'm fairly convinced that the new guy is cushioned, pushed and prodded by his old man's advisors (the 21st century equivalent of the Grand Vizier/ Eunuch palace entourage) and can't display too much of a will of his own. He may want to manifest himself internationally and show he's no pushover but a real war is not the way to prove it. Expect a few fisher boats being sunk, perhaps a bit of harassing about where the NK waters start and the international waters end, maybe some rhetorics and parades (work great to soothe the army, too) and of course, trumpeting about your nuclear power and trying to use it as an extortionist bargaining chip like they did so many times before.
But nothing seriously bad.

[McLovin]

Well, shit, I guess Team America is going to have to go after Hugo Chavez now.

Looks like KJU will be the figurehead and some other guy (Thaek?) will be the real power. For a while, anyway.

Sounds like KJU is not too competent as a leader so wonder how this is all going to play out over the long term.

[worry]

The sexiest age for the sexiest despot.

[Abyss]

Yeah, they thought Palpatine was dead too...

[Anomander Rake]

There is unlikely to be any rivalry between the siblings, the oldest has said he has no interest in ruling, he was also caught taking his family on fake passports to Tokyo where he was caught and deported to China. He said he was going to Disneyland Tokyo (it caused quite a bit of embarrassment to the father). He is probably considered to be a reformer, therefore probably would have been a better option for the world.

According to a former Chef, he said the father said about the middle son, that he was like a girl. Therefore that just left the youngest son, who also looks the most like his granddad.

Though the youngest is said to have studied in Switzerland, therefore you would hope he may be more open minded (though we have been proved wrong this year e.g. Said Gadaffi etc).

As to the North being more developed than the South until about the 70's, the reason for this was while Japan was occupying Korea, they used the South mainly for Agriculture, and located most of the heavy industry in the North, therefore you could say the North had a head start. Though now, South Korea is miles ahead.

Gotta feel sorry for Korea, they were ruled by Japan for decades, then split between Russia and USA, (hence the division at 38th Parallel, was supposed to be temporary by both USA/Allies and Russia, but Russia refused to hold elections as was agreed beforehand) whom put regimes that would be favourable to them and ignored the fighters and exiles who had been fighting Japan for a long time. Interesting history.

As to what will happen next, well 2011 has been a hell of a year, with Dictators dying at the magic number of 69. Could there be some kind of revolution in North Korea? I personally can't see that happening, as its the most isolated country in the world, and information is tightly controlled. lol, he died like 2 days ago and we only found out today.

[Illuyankas]

Reposting here, after it was originally posted on October 21st. Spoooooooooooooky.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Honestly, North Korea may have amongst the largest standing manpower in militaries, but they're desperately short on force-multipliers like aircraft. Ever since about 1985 the DMZ has been more of a defensive line for the North than the South.

We could win a Korean War II in probably 2 years, assuming we don't do something stupid like accidentally invade China and get them in the war again.

Then there's the issue of their nuclear program. I'm honestly not convinced (and many people agree) that they've gotten a functional bomb. Not to mention they don't have the industrial or technical ability to enrich their own uranium. I mean, shit, it's taken Iran this long and they actually HAVE an economy and technical class.

I think we might want to stop treating NK like a spoiled child and start ban-hammering them.

[Tsundoku]

May the bastard rot in hell.

Anyone else noticed how Un resembles Il? Both look like spoiled, petulant, pudgy little brats. Dangerous spoiled, petulant, pudgy little brats admittedly.

[Anomander Rake]

Attacking North Korea won't be as easy as attacking Iraq, Libya etc. During the Korean Civil war, the USA/Allies had superior air power and used Napalm etc (though today's air force can be even more destructive than the past).

The USA/Allies actually were in striking distance of having complete control of Korea (if they had held the line when they had 90%, where it was easier to defend as Winston Churchil wanted MacArthur to do, things might have been different), but then China entered the war.

The other thing is, is that North Korea has a lot of long range missiles, and taking a gamble of that they don't really have any Nukes, well that would be an extremely big risk to take, when they have missiles that may be able to reach even US cities, not to mention cities like Seoul, Tokyo which massive population centres.

North Korea actually has a lot of Natural resources (including Uranium), and could become quite a rich country. Therefore any war with North Korea will likely mean China will get involved. I can't see China not getting involved, unless the North were to attack the South on a massive scale first.

We can only hope some reformers come along, and work towards doing what is best for their people.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Anomander Rake, on 21 December 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

The other thing is, is that North Korea has a lot of long range missiles, and taking a gamble of that they don't really have any Nukes, well that would be an extremely big risk to take, when they have missiles that may be able to reach even US cities, not to mention cities like Seoul, Tokyo which massive population centres.

North Korea actually has a lot of Natural resources (including Uranium), and could become quite a rich country. Therefore any war with North Korea will likely mean China will get involved. I can't see China not getting involved, unless the North were to attack the South on a massive scale first.

We can only hope some reformers come along, and work towards doing what is best for their people.

North Korea's had at least 2 'long range' missile tests, none of which made it more than a few miles into the Sea of Japan before either burning out or exploding. Might they have the capability to fire on Tokyo? Unlikely, but within the realm of possibility. To reach US cities? A laughable fantasy.

And while it's likely that China would get involved, they've been fairly frustrated with North Korea during the multi-lateral negotiations over nuclear weapons, etc. I don't think they'd stick their necks out THAT far unless we directly violated their rights / territory.

[Tapper]

Rumors of Kim Jong-Un being murdered while on a visit to Beijing are all over twitter. Which means it is probably not entirely true