[Path-Shaper]

Liosan, on 17 December 2011 - 01:22 AM, said:

ok, if we go to night or i somehow manage not to get lynched, double check with me on a last kill. currently my person of choice is

remove previous kill list


kill d'riss

That's not a good sign. He has to go after D'riss, not GL or Fener for a lynch. I doubt he would target someone for a nk that he wanted to get lynched.

[Path-Shaper]

 Sir Thursday, on 17 December 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

*sigh*

Really shouldn't have stuck my neck out with all that "Vote Night" stuff, should I? It really didn't synergise well with how I was trying to get the idea of a killer pair into people's heads.

I felt like I could have played that game a lot better. I basically spent most of it dithering instead of being decisive and aggressive and making cases. I was starting to get somewhere in Day 2, but then GH went and ruined it by poking my case full of holes . After that I didn't have the time to make the cases. Kind of why I was hoping to make it to the weekend when I could draw some pretty diagrams and make some connections and generally act persuasively. My plan was going to be to accuse Liosan of symping D'riss to get D'riss lynched for the win. And it probably would have worked too if I could have survived until tomorrow.

Ah well, let's see if GH can pull it out.

ST

Awesome first time symping job! It's always hard when the person you're symping has a boner for getting you killed. I thought you did well. You and Venge both really did well, with a few things not as good. Same with GH, actually. He's had a good game besides getting his symp lynched.

[Path-Shaper]

Galayn Lord, on 17 December 2011 - 01:24 AM, said:

Okay. So neither of us can get lynched in the next game day. We're lucky that neither of us got NK'd. And I'm kinda glad the Kara was the one who got NK'd because I thought he could be scum. We just have to get it right!

Probably safe to assume that we're dealing with a single killer, else it would be game over, right?

[Khellendros]

Galayn and Fener won't even need to reveal if GH/Liosan goes with the idea of trying to get one of them two lynched. This is all but a town victory unless something really stoopid happens.

Unlucky ST, you played well - but man did your scum buddy want to kill you bad One thing I would say is that it was apparent from early on that GH/Liosan had decided to target you, which means you maybe should have done a bit more to convince them that you needed to live - although I have no idea how you would actually go about doing that

[Karatallid]

 Sir Thursday, on 17 December 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

*sigh*

Really shouldn't have stuck my neck out with all that "Vote Night" stuff, should I? It really didn't synergise well with how I was trying to get the idea of a killer pair into people's heads.

I felt like I could have played that game a lot better. I basically spent most of it dithering instead of being decisive and aggressive and making cases. I was starting to get somewhere in Day 2, but then GH went and ruined it by poking my case full of holes . After that I didn't have the time to make the cases. Kind of why I was hoping to make it to the weekend when I could draw some pretty diagrams and make some connections and generally act persuasively. My plan was going to be to accuse Liosan of symping D'riss to get D'riss lynched for the win. And it probably would have worked too if I could have survived until tomorrow.

Ah well, let's see if GH can pull it out.

ST

I don't understand why no one else picked up on the fact that it looked like Liosan was giving you orders to try a night vote. Seemed totally obvious to me. If it hadn't happened on the day that I am home instead of at work then I would have been able to pound that more and finish the game. Anyone who votes for night in a m/p game should be lynched regardless of reasons. I started to look at why you would be voting for night and that conversation with Liosan light up. I would expect a symp to vote night before his master. But only if the master suggested it. I should have explained that on the thread. I thought that it was obvious.

I love to RP and wasn't going to stop until the end of day one fuck everyone else. But I also wasn't going to let it go past day one like I have done in past games. There wasn't enough players for that.

This game should be all but over. Good game guys.

[Karatallid]

 Tapper, on 15 December 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

 H.D., on 15 December 2011 - 10:44 PM, said:

They fail to realized that people like me run around anonymous all the time and I view the thread a lot.

It's not breaking the rules, it's just not necessarily right and easily slipped because of that.

Same here, I'm anon most of the time nowadays.

Same here.

[Path-Shaper]

Any thoughts on man of the match? It's hard for me to pick one, really.

Taking everything into consideration, I might say the lovers.. because they've been laying low and keeping alive until endgame. Now they're a powerhouse group. Let's see if they make the right lynch, though..

Edit: Oh, and Venge, I don't think Liosan had any idea that Eloth was his symp.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 17 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

[Sir Thursday]

 Path-Shaper, on 17 December 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

Any thoughts on man of the match? It's hard for me to pick one, really.

Taking everything into consideration, I might say the lovers.. because they've been laying low and keeping alive until endgame. Now they're a powerhouse group. Let's see if they make the right lynch, though..

Edit: Oh, and Venge, I don't think Liosan had any idea that Eloth was his symp.

Yeah, it might have looked like that, but that wasn't actually what was going on - Lio doesn't know I was his symp, and I wasn't really paying any attention to what he was saying at that point .

I was really surprised that people found voting for night so controversial, actually. I've always taken it as gospel that with 4 players town should always vote night to get it down to three in an M&P game, and the extension of that to 6 players left with 2 killers seems equivalent to me. It's different in games with lots of roles, where there might be roles left around and consequently allowing the killer to have another kill is more risky. But in M&P, that reduction of choices is REALLY useful to a innocent player looking for a killer.

In the situation with 4 players left, allowing the killer to remove one provides you with a ton of useful information. By that stage everyone will have a decent idea of the stance of the other players. The Killer will absolutely not risk removing a player that will leave him outnumbered 2-to-1 by people who are suspicious of him. There's a touch of WIFOM involved in any logic you base on that, but frankly with the stakes the way they are you can assume that 90% of the time the killer will act that way. In addition, instead of having to pick one out of three players you as the killer, you have to pick one from two. So much easier to make that decision.

Of course, all this is moot if you don't trust your fellow innos to play intelligently. That's when the fear of the reduced margin for error comes in, the fear that your remaining teammate will make the wrong decision. But if you assume competence, then I think you're much more likely to come to the right conclusion in a 3 player shootout than a 4 player shootout.

There's a debate about whether this scales up to 6 players with 2 scum. I think it definitely does if you've got a killer-symp combo - the possibility of the game being reduced to 5 players 1 scum is a huge plus for town, along with the increased probability of making the right decision should that not come to pass. And once again, if you assume your teammates are capable of coming to a rational decision, then I don't think the thinner margin for error is all that important. Especially since if you tell people not to vote until everyone is sure, it doesn't really make any difference.

ST

[Vengeance]

 Sir Thursday, on 17 December 2011 - 08:26 PM, said:

Of course, all this is moot if you don't trust your fellow innos to play intelligently. That's when the fear of the reduced margin for error comes in, the fear that your remaining teammate will make the wrong decision. But if you assume competence, then I think you're much more likely to come to the right conclusion in a 3 player shootout than a 4 player shootout.

There's a debate about whether this scales up to 6 players with 2 scum. I think it definitely does if you've got a killer-symp combo - the possibility of the game being reduced to 5 players 1 scum is a huge plus for town, along with the increased probability of making the right decision should that not come to pass. And once again, if you assume your teammates are capable of coming to a rational decision, then I don't think the thinner margin for error is all that important. Especially since if you tell people not to vote until everyone is sure, it doesn't really make any difference.

ST

After all of the game that we have played I always assume that none of the other players left at the end are competent and most definitely not rational and are purely there based on luck. Except for scum.

I understand what your saying but to me it is always more dangerous to take the game down to a point were all scum has to do is talk one person into joining there side to win. That means that the remaining town members have to be on top of their game and watching every single move that everyone makes. Going to night in a M/P game always benefits scum. The town doesn't get any information off of the lynch and scum has a chance to remove a thorn in their side.

[Vengeance]

 Shinrei, on 14 December 2011 - 04:17 AM, said:

I wonder if that silly RPing by Karat was Vengy trying to keep from being alted early. He would probably have been the last player on the list of 10 who I would have suspected as being Karat.


ETA: The other thing I forgot to mention was how I promised to be back on with 10 minutes to go. Well, I was there with about 6 minutes but the hammer had already fallen. Another reason that chain reeked.

You forget that I love to RP and being from Oregon (home of hippies) while working on the floor I have the perspective to RP really really well. I was very disappointed that no one else wanted to do it.

[Vengeance]

I miss the days when we would spend the entire first day RPing and spamming the shit out of the thread to then speed lynch and start to really playing on day 2.... We need a RPing game. Like that one that dibs ran where every day you had to RP a different character that you got by choosing dice the night before.

[Path-Shaper]

I would have RPed with you, if it's any consolation.

[Shadow]

This is the first time since I died I have had internet access, so i'm here i'm around and i've been dying to see the spoilers I'll log in as me first

[Tattersail_]

There were two reasons I played the way I played. The first is because I had to die by Wednesday and the second is because I wanted the thread to be open, talkative so that scum couldn't hide. I was way off on my accusations but without the information from all the lynches and voting I was accusing people blindly. Two games in a row I have drawn the NK and played completely different each time.

Reading through the spoilers was fun, now i'm going to read through the game and see what I missed.


Before I do, Lio/GH and Eloth/ST in my opinion played outstanding. Venge played amazingly as well.
Much Kudos!!

[Tattersail_]

If Lio can convince people to lynch D'riss then he could win. It's been a very good game this one, lots of cases and lots of posts. Pulling my hair out reading through again.

Apologies to KL for name calling her alt, i've always had a thing for that alt

Well done to them for being around until the end.
Much apologies to D'riss/HiddenOne and my desire to lynch him

As I said I played the way I played for a reason.



It could go either way looking at it.

[Tattersail_]

Quote

It is day 4

36 hours left in the day.

4 players still alive: D'riss, Fener, Galayn Lord, Liosan

3 votes to lynch
2 votes to go to night.


Players not voting: D'riss, Fener, Galayn Lord, Liosan

A good way (although it may be risky) to find who is scum out of Lio and D'riss would be for one of the lovers to vote for night.

[Path-Shaper]

Hmm. So he votes night, Liosan jumps on it, gets a kill, comes down to 3 tomorrow, Liosan thinking he has a symp still alive.. they know who the killer is, they vote him out. Holy shit, genius.

And if he doesn;t bite, the lover won't get lynched because it;s impossible at this point.. that's fantastic.

[Path-Shaper]

New strategy for town: Act as scummy as possible, and the people who genuinely seem helpful are obviously the actual scum,

jussayin.

[The Dude]

With the way Lio is spamming the thread it should be a hint that something is off. Also, the way he was so cavilier with his vote on D-day should also be a little clue. Will be interesting to see how the lovers play this.


In regards to voting night, I think if you have actual info to go on and feel you have a good read on the game, then it isn't wise. But if town is totally lost and basically struggling to find awell reasoned lynch target, then the vote to night with 4 or 6 left is a good idea. (definately not in this case though when you have 2 lovers around.)

[Path-Shaper]

^

He sent me this after he went to town on the thread.

Liosan, on 19 December 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

well, i hope i haven't buried myself. i just can't take this thread silence. at least with discussion i have a chance to gauge where players are moving with their thoughts and can "steer" them in more appropriate directions. nothing else i can do if the day just runs to the last few hours and then everyone suddenly just votes (like they have been all game long ).

and frankly, i'm bored. as i said, hate talking to myself...