[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5, 29 hours and 49 minutes left in the day.

9 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Omtose, Spite, Tennes,

5 votes to lynch

1 vote Tennes: Emurlahn
1 vote Meanas: Anomandaris

Players not voting: Atrahal, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Omtose, Spite, Tennes

[Tennes]

Yip....when mockra never came back to do his suspect list it was fairly obvious that he didnt want to give anything more away.

I would bet that we most likely find a symp in the group of people who where trying to second guess whether we should believe Ehmurs reveal or not.

[Tennes]

I like Anomanders break down..


but i think we can go one step further than just lynch trains.
Gonna do a little re-read.

[Anomandaris]

Tiamatha, on 29 November 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't think it will swing in Thyrllan's direction, i'm around and will switch if necessary, I guess in light of Tennes' case I have to vote for Kessobahn although Thyrllan was a distinct possibility.

Vote Kessobahn

Sort of looks better for tennes in that if he was killer this looked like a symp clue and tiam was killed that night so less likely tennes is the killer.

Mockra, on 29 November 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 29 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

I was gonna be all like "I'm here, need hammer plox?" but we're training the guy I joke-voted like a year ago... cool

Also in this post Thyr tries pretty hard to disassociate himself from the Kesso train.

I'm disappointed we haven't heard from Meanas or Omtose at all; only 1 post by day 2 does not look good.

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 30 November 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 04:46 AM, said:

Uh, yeah, that's all I've got atm...

I'm willing to give Meanas another day to get his act together before we low-post lynch him though, it's only early day 2 after all! Maybe he got mauled by a bobcat tanuki on his way to mafia yesterday!

Fixed.

Out of curiosity, what's the modkill timer? It's been at least 36 hours since we've seen him. Maybe if we say his name he'll magically appear?

....Meanas?

Mockra seemed intent on getting meanas modkilled. not something i would expect scum to do to their partner.

remove vote

Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

Omtose, I see what you're saying about Galain possibly justifying Ruse's posting looking suspicious. Hmmm. We have lots to go on here - possibly too much.

- HP pushing a link between Galain and Atrahal.

- Lots of questions over Thyrllan, some of them linked to his first post, others linked to how the voting swung away from him to Kessobahn.

- Some suspicions over Tennes for being...what? Helpful? It's kind of hard to point out exactly what here, but more than one person has stated a suspicion now.

- Lynch voting examination has turned out the name Ruse most often, now been connected to Galain by Omtose.

- I have a boner for Anomandaris, but no one else has commented.

I think Thyrllan is the one we're likely to get most people to agree on. At the moment, there is no real stand out case.

No mention of mockra, gamelon or spite. ended up night killed.

think we can rule out tennes and meanas after looking at the nks and the behaviour of mockra in regards to a meanas modkill.

[Anomandaris]

Tennes, on 06 December 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

I like Anomanders break down..


but i think we can go one step further than just lynch trains.
Gonna do a little re-read.

one step ahead of ya!

[Anomandaris]

Revised list

Meanas - mockra followed meanas onto the day 2 and 3 train. didnt vote mockra yesterday. fairly coasting player. ** mockra tried to get meanas modkilled (could have checked with shin before hand that it wasnt going to happen, but that would be some seriously good distancing at an early point in the game)
Omtose - Yesterday was his first train (PI in my book) ** was on ruse train with mockra though had carried that vote over from day 2. voted early on the mockra train. (still not as hgih on my suspicions)
Spite - Didnt like the whole remove then finally hammer tactic, was very absent last week (would be a fairly cheap scum tactic)
Tennes - wanted to hear from mockra which is fairly common inno move to gain info. voted for him. no previous vote connection. Big symp like clue from tiam who ended up dead same day and came back inno quoted above (PI)
Atrahal - some vote collaboration, lots of suspicion on my part. no obvious connections on thread with mockra though havent got whole way through.
Gamelon - One vote collaboration, no vote yesterday, odd comments at cf.

vote atrahal

he is next on my list of suspects so laying down my vote.

[Tennes]

These two quotes from meanas makes me tend to agree with your evaluation of him Ano....

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

It is Day 2, 3 hours and 1 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

5 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Ruse, Tennes,

Yeah, I'm a big fan of momentum. Mockra and Gamelon turbo vote Thyr when Ruse starts to build heat. Eenteresting.

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

I'm totally down with a Mockra lynch. That was some really dodgy stuff yesterday after Ruse was getting all kinds of heat.

That said, I'm voting for Ruse right now because that's who was saved by the misdirection.

Vote Ruse

not something i would think a killer partner would be saying that early in the game...drawing attention to his partner would be pointless.

[Tennes]

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 06:09 AM, said:

Is it me or are there a bunch of long quote blocks with no commentary after them on this page? It's such a tease.

Hood, on 30 November 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

as you can see there was a almost a hour between there cases more then enough time for them to conlude and then mess up as to why the would go after the same person well that would have to be a mess up wouldn't it no right minded scum would both go after the same target unless they messed up
tennes the fact that people thought that I was kesso's symp speaks not to my symp hood but to their own lack of ability
mockra the only reason that scum would make the same case on a person is that they messed up it has happened before there for it is possible.
galain what else could you possibly say that you were in fact scum and that atrahal was your partner and that you had thought that you were suppose to make the case while atrahal thought that he was suppose to make the case you two still look scummy and much to chummy for my tastes
still getting caught up

I don't see how that lines up with your original story on this whole thing:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

Emphasis mine. So you're saying that from this first post you actually meant that they were two killers who got confused about who was supposed to make the case on Kesso? I guess you could interpret it that way but it reads to me like you suggested they were coordinating their attacks on purpose, not by mistake. And yeah, that is a ridiculous position because scum would probably not do that, but it just sounds to me like you made a shitty case and are trying to salvage it by changing the angle.

I'm looking hard, but I can't see the devastating contradiction that you can here, Mockra. Can you enlighten me? What I see is HP first saying that he feels that when two people make cases on the same person in quick succession, they're colluding off-thread and agreed to both attack that person....and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP.

So where's the horrible contradiction? Both posts say that Atrahal and Galain agreed to attack Kessobahn - the later post just says they made a mistake in both attacking, with cases, at nearabouts the same time, when they should have come at Kesso from different angles. Have I missed something, because at the moment it seems to me that you're working quite hard to make something out of not much?

I think Tennes covered this but I found it hard to read his posting style. Basically, the original argument HP made was that the cases being posted so close together was indication of collusion off-thread - that is, direct agreement between Atrahal and Galain to team up and make cases on Kesso. This is supported primarily by how close together the cases were in time. Later, when someone brings up the fact that scum probably aren't so dumb that they'd make cases on the same person an hour apart, HP changes his story to say that Atrahal and Galain are suspicious because they must have agreed off thread but then messed up the execution on thread, and only one person should have posted the case.

I find this contradictory because HP is going about making his case in reverse order. A good case is based on connections that lead to a conclusion that implicates a player or players. HP has started with his conclusion of the guilty players and when one connection doesn't seem strong enough to support his conclusions, he makes up a different and opposite connection to support it instead. This is bogus because he's pushing his case pretty hard and ignoring almost everything else, but he had to change his story in order to keep the case potentially valid. For those reasons he's on my list and the way he's making his case is totally forced instead of natural.

Also, I just noticed something you said - "and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP". I wonder if we're misunderstanding each other a bit? I'm saying that HP's case is that Atrahal and Galain actually DID NOT mean to post those cases - they only meant to have one person do it but they each thought it was themselves instead of the other person. That's what HP has said. It sounds to me like your interpretation of "mistake" is that they made the cases like they agreed to off-thread, but that plan turned out to be a mistake because it was too obvious.

Here is mockra trying to rubbish (yes i know i was too) a case on Atrahal and Galain.
As far as i am concerned the case was bollox.
But if Galain or Atrahal are both inno....why would Mockra bother defending a case on either of them?

i think atrahal is a decent bet, followed closely by Gamelon.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5, 28 hours and 39 minutes left in the day.

9 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Omtose, Spite, Tennes,

5 votes to lynch

1 vote Tennes: Emurlahn
1 vote Atrahal: Anomandaris

Players not voting: Atrahal, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Omtose, Spite, Tennes

[Tennes]

Spite, on 28 November 2011 - 07:36 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 28 November 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

Spite, on 28 November 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 28 November 2011 - 07:20 PM, said:

The triple voting makes me laugh. A certain mafia player has been lynched the past 2 games for double voting on day 1. He claims he is trying to break the habit of town lynching people for shitty signaling cases, as they're never true.

Aaaaand the reaction I was looking for. (Mockra)

What about Mockra's reaction did you like?

Also, Kesso should be joining us soon, it appears. NEKKID

Mockra was all accusing me of acting all symp like for my triple vote when we've had two straight games where someone double votes someone and they end up getting lynched for signaling. I wanted him to know that you are allowed to have a little bit of fun while weeding out the scum.

early day one stuff....dont see them doing this as a killer pair.

moving spite off of the top of the list.

[Tennes]

Omtose, on 01 December 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

It is Day 2, A lynch has occurred.


8 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse, Thyrllan, Emurlahn.
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Galain, Osseric, Atrahal

Players not voting: Anomandaris, Hood's Path, Tennes,

This is where the trains swung from 4 for Ruse, 3 for Thyr...to 5 For Thyr 4 for Ruse.

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

It is Day 2, 3 hours and 1 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

5 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Ruse, Tennes,

Yeah, I'm a big fan of momentum. Mockra and Gamelon turbo vote Thyr when Ruse starts to build heat. Eenteresting.

If Ruse is scum, we can really look at Gamelon and Mockra for scum. If Ruse is inno, I'd bet it's more likely that game and Mockra are inno because why would scum go on the train that had less people? Who knows..but it's just a guideline and can help us down the road. I think we get the most info from a Ruse train.

I am also suspicious of the Late Atrahal vote on Ruse. If Ruse comes back inno.. I think Atrahal is a good place to look.

omtose has absolutely zero interaction with Mockra up till this point....doesnt mention him once.
And here he is putting forward a situation that makes mockra inno if ruse CF's inno...interesting.

At first i found the lack of interaction interesting...but this is icing.

[Tennes]

another interesting omtose/mockra post.

Omtose, on 01 December 2011 - 06:20 PM, said:

Well, based on the fact that there was so much resistance to the Ruse lynch, and that the case from yesterday still stands:

vote Ruse

Interesting points on Mockra, but I think we can more effectively gain connections from a Ruse lynch rather than using a Mockra lynch to determine Ruse's allegience. (Really that only works if Mockra comes back as scum)

Meanas brings up a good point about Gamelon and Mockra coming on and taking a Ruse lynch out of the picture. A Ruse CF should tell us a lot.

[Tennes]

another thing to note is omtose doesnt mention mockra again untill after the reveal by ehmur and after that its fair play for killer partner to throw his revealed partner as quickly as possible to the wolves for distancing.

[Tennes]

So.

for me its either Atrahal, omtose, gamelon and then only spite/meanas.





edit - forgot to add meanas

This post has been edited by Tennes: 06 December 2011 - 10:20 AM

[Anomandaris]

Tennes, on 06 December 2011 - 10:07 AM, said:

Omtose, on 01 December 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

It is Day 2, A lynch has occurred.


8 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse, Thyrllan, Emurlahn.
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Galain, Osseric, Atrahal

Players not voting: Anomandaris, Hood's Path, Tennes,

This is where the trains swung from 4 for Ruse, 3 for Thyr...to 5 For Thyr 4 for Ruse.

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

It is Day 2, 3 hours and 1 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

5 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Ruse, Tennes,

Yeah, I'm a big fan of momentum. Mockra and Gamelon turbo vote Thyr when Ruse starts to build heat. Eenteresting.

If Ruse is scum, we can really look at Gamelon and Mockra for scum. If Ruse is inno, I'd bet it's more likely that game and Mockra are inno because why would scum go on the train that had less people? Who knows..but it's just a guideline and can help us down the road. I think we get the most info from a Ruse train.

I am also suspicious of the Late Atrahal vote on Ruse. If Ruse comes back inno.. I think Atrahal is a good place to look.

omtose has absolutely zero interaction with Mockra up till this point....doesnt mention him once.
And here he is putting forward a situation that makes mockra inno if ruse CF's inno...interesting.

At first i found the lack of interaction interesting...but this is icing.

thats a good catch actually, and given that he points toward atrahal at the end, a lynch of either gives info on the other. I reckon its between atrahal, gamelon and omtose. Will see what emur comes back on with and if anyone else has any ideas.

[Anomandaris]

DOUBLE POST - removed

This post has been edited by Anomandaris: 06 December 2011 - 10:37 AM

[Atrahal]

Well then, seems like a lot has been worked out in my absence. First of all, I am tired of being called scummy with no clarification. I seem to recall a case done by Galain yesterday that was met with....well nothing. No one except Emur commented and frankly I thought that town finally recognized one of its own.

Fast forward to after the finder reveal and precision strike on scum yesterday. All of the sudden, I am scummy once again, but this time with a whole lot less substance to the arguments. I mean how am I to argue against "I made this argument at this time and then this person argued the same thing right after me." Must be scum ... despite the second person coming up inno after being offed last night.

And then we have Tennes, magically townie by some stretch of the imagination. I don't remember Emur clearing him, but Anom thinks he is clear, so it must be so. Most of what Tennes has done during the game is attack HP's day one case. Now, if I recall correctly, Mockra also spent a fair amount of time picking at HP early on as well. Moreover, other than the occasional book comment here and there, most of Tennes posts are fluff, such as that whole codeine adventure a couple days back.

Now if I recall correctly, several people were spouting that today was D-day or very close. We nailed Hojo, but as you say PS didn't confirm a win for us quite yet (not surprising, but work with me for a sec). So we have potentially 3 scum among the 9 remaining town. Three town are confirmed: HP, Emur, and Anom. If we get the wrong person today, and scum NKs town (which is a safe bet considering there are now bona-fide townie grade targets), we are down to 3 vs 4, which is very bad for us.

So, let's try not to speed lynch today hmmmm. I am glad we just cut to the chase and cut out Mockra, but I want to hear from the rest of the unconfirmed people today (e.g. Omtose, Meanas, Spite, and Gamelon) and then really want to hear from HP, since he is the last of our trusted trio.

[Anomandaris]

if you have a better suspect list go ahead. Emurlahn clearly doesnt trust tennes, hence the vote. i only discount him for today because of the quote above from tiamatha agreeing with him on thread that if he was a killer would have made him think tiam was a possible symp especially given that it was day 1. I am simply looking at who remains and trying to find the most suspicious from the evidence i have. Theres only a single vote on anyone so there is no attempt at speed lynching either. Instead of complaining about people voting for you why not give us who you think is the most suspicious rather than relying on simply asking other people to speak and acting like thats enough of a tactic to survive.

Neither I nor hp are confirmed town, we definitely arent scum but theres no reason for anyone to simply believe everything we say as both of us should be treated as possibly symps at the very least. There is plenty of evidence though and scope to go after the likely scum left in the game and if you see a flaw in my logic point it out and give the reasons. I havent made it through the whole thread yet to see what other connections there are to mockra so i might have missed something.

[Emurlahn]

Tennes, on 06 December 2011 - 09:41 AM, said:

These two quotes from meanas makes me tend to agree with your evaluation of him Ano....

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

It is Day 2, 3 hours and 1 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

5 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Ruse, Tennes,

Yeah, I'm a big fan of momentum. Mockra and Gamelon turbo vote Thyr when Ruse starts to build heat. Eenteresting.

Meanas, on 01 December 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

I'm totally down with a Mockra lynch. That was some really dodgy stuff yesterday after Ruse was getting all kinds of heat.

That said, I'm voting for Ruse right now because that's who was saved by the misdirection.

Vote Ruse

not something i would think a killer partner would be saying that early in the game...drawing attention to his partner would be pointless.

Your last quote there actually makes me want to vote Meanas more. My Mockra case was NOT good. This looks more like a killer distancing himself from his partner but not actually leveling any serious accusations. Hasn't Meanas been pretty middle of the road so far?

[Emurlahn]

Atrahal, on 06 December 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well then, seems like a lot has been worked out in my absence. First of all, I am tired of being called scummy with no clarification. I seem to recall a case done by Galain yesterday that was met with....well nothing. No one except Emur commented and frankly I thought that town finally recognized one of its own.

Fast forward to after the finder reveal and precision strike on scum yesterday. All of the sudden, I am scummy once again, but this time with a whole lot less substance to the arguments. I mean how am I to argue against "I made this argument at this time and then this person argued the same thing right after me." Must be scum ... despite the second person coming up inno after being offed last night.

And then we have Tennes, magically townie by some stretch of the imagination. I don't remember Emur clearing him, but Anom thinks he is clear, so it must be so. Most of what Tennes has done during the game is attack HP's day one case. Now, if I recall correctly, Mockra also spent a fair amount of time picking at HP early on as well. Moreover, other than the occasional book comment here and there, most of Tennes posts are fluff, such as that whole codeine adventure a couple days back.

Now if I recall correctly, several people were spouting that today was D-day or very close. We nailed Hojo, but as you say PS didn't confirm a win for us quite yet (not surprising, but work with me for a sec). So we have potentially 3 scum among the 9 remaining town. Three town are confirmed: HP, Emur, and Anom. If we get the wrong person today, and scum NKs town (which is a safe bet considering there are now bona-fide townie grade targets), we are down to 3 vs 4, which is very bad for us.

So, let's try not to speed lynch today hmmmm. I am glad we just cut to the chase and cut out Mockra, but I want to hear from the rest of the unconfirmed people today (e.g. Omtose, Meanas, Spite, and Gamelon) and then really want to hear from HP, since he is the last of our trusted trio.

Galain's case didn't make you seem more than a bit scummy, which everyone seems at this point.

On my instincts: I want Tennes gone.
On my reading: I want Gamelon gone.

Also, think of it this way. Tomorrow, assuming our healer keeps doing his job, we will know that 4 out of 7 are not killers, so we would have a much smaller pool to pick from.