[Thyrllan]

damn :couch:, I meant

[Galain]

Gamelon, on 30 November 2011 - 10:11 PM, said:

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 30 November 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

@Galain.

The two and fro-ing thing is weird. How often do you read that?

They both misspelled 'to' as well, which is why it initially caught my eye .


I notice that Anomandaris has had no interaction with Ruse apart from this...could imagine a symp avoiding contact apart from where necessary. But then again, that could well be confirmation bias talking.




@Thyrllan: I'll go and have a look at Tennes. Must admit that he hasn't really crossed my radar as of yet.

You've either pulled a nice catch out of your butt, or grabbed a straw

Do you really think if Ruse was taking you for a symp they would point out that you helped them look bad?

Well it was kind of jokey from Ruse, but I take your point.

[Rashan]

Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

at the same time, Rashan is a big up-and-comer on my scumdar. I wouldn't say he's likely to be the Hojo chieftain, but he's been vigorous enough pushing cases in a single-mindedness that doesn't match up with his getting as much content about other cases in as he can. What I mean is that he looks like he's talking about everything equally as a good little townie should, but at the same time he only really puts any push towards one particular case at a time because he wants to keep the real focus there.

In two days of game time, I pushed one case (on you) and that was based on my own theory. On day 1, if anything, I wasn't around much and had Spite buzzing around my head like the most annoying fly ever.
On day 2, I did point out my issues with a lot of cases on day 2, but that I suddenly could be that active has more to do with my work schedule than with anything else, and with little to bring up myself until I re-examined the lynch train and saw how close Atrahal and Galain were to you in choice of subject (caused by your off-hand and rather ruthless comment that we were apparently voting the guy you were voting for from the start (based on a joke vote) and how that was a good thing). I even dismissed that initially as just a thought and didn't put names in it until Galain prompted me.

Also, after bringing my vote out, I have certainly not canvassed for others to put a vote on you.
So why you construct it this way, I really don't know - are we even reading the same thread? But hey, prove me wrong - quote me, in sequence, how I actively push that one case? How many people make more than 1 case a day? Very few, I tell you.

[Galain]

Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 09:29 PM, said:

Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

Having said that, just so people know where my current suspicions lie:

Vote Anomandaris

Next best choice for me is Ruse, then Mockra and Thyrllan.

I've taken a look at your Anomandaris case, Osseric. I'm not quite sure I see your point though. The post you quoted feels like it does contain a valid reason to me. One thing that does feel weird about Ano is that he makes no effort to generate any in the time he was here for. He does a little speculation about scum blocs, but doesn't give any indication as to who he thinks is vote-worthy.

I'm a little miffed at Ruse, who took my call for more content and gave...absolutely nothing. Rereading what I said in my summary, I might have been giving them too much leeway because of their lowposter status. I can kind of see Omtose's point that of the set of votes, Ruse's is the most suspicious.

that's an amusing xpost edit: wait no its not I dont get it I think I thought osseric was Ano. I am not the sense


As for whom do I suspect? Well I already said my bit about Tennes. Re-read his posts, and there's not much to say about him. His larger posts he really rambles about finding HP to be so awful but never goes so far as to say anyone might be scum or, heaven forbid, vote for someone who doesn't have a 5-person train already.

I'm going to drop my Tennes vote now, might as well get the options out there on the board.

vote Tennes

at the same time, Rashan is a big up-and-comer on my scumdar. I wouldn't say he's likely to be the Hojo chieftain, but he's been vigorous enough pushing cases in a single-mindedness that doesn't match up with his getting as much content about other cases in as he can. What I mean is that he looks like he's talking about everything equally as a good little townie should, but at the same time he only really puts any push towards one particular case at a time because he wants to keep the real focus there.

Went and had a look at Tennes. I don't really see it myself...only black mark against him is his overfocus on HP. But I can't see an angle that makes that a good thing for scum to be focussing on. He's not trying to form a counter train on HP or he'd have dropped a vote. His flow of consciousness stuff is really annoying to read though.

[Galain]

I'm going to be AFK for a while, but I'll come back to vote before I go to bed, I promise.

[Galain]

Actually, you know what?

Vote Ruse

I still don't fully believe my own case, but then I'm not convinced by what's against Thyrllan either. Meh...should have tried harder to find something, I guess. The train analysis pointing to Ruse is probably the strongest piece of evidence out there, so I'll go with it.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 4 hours and 22 minutes are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

3 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan
1 vote Anomandaris: Osseric
3 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Mockra, Ruse, Tennes,

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 30 November 2011 - 11:02 PM

[Emurlahn]

I'm pretty okay with either a Thyr or Ruse lynch.

There are a few players that have vanished.. it's very interesting.

I'll be around to hammer, I always like to give people time.

[Omtose]

I am here off and on. Work is kicking my ass. I can just see me getting shit tomorrow if Ruse comes up inno. oh well. I am not soldon Thyr, and I don't have time today to dig any deeper. I *should* be around lynch time to switch if needed... but I can't make promises.

[Gamelon]

Omtose, on 30 November 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

Hello- I am here and all caught up. Right now I agree with Osseric ( maybe Galain?) I think we should be looking at people on the end of the Kesso train. Meaning Ruse and Anno. They both came on and gave reasonable justification for their votes, but someone...can't remember who, came on and actually defended Ruse's vote. That struck me as odd. I'll try to go back and find it. So for now

remove vote

vote ruse.

i'll be here off and on all day, but i am at work and don't have uch time to post. I *should* be around for lynch time

Did you ever find this quote? Aside from the signalling case by Galain, I'm not sure what we're looking for here

[Emurlahn]

^ This

Omtose, on 30 November 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

It was Galain

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 12:16 AM, said:

Ruse has two posts of note, and when taken together they present a picture of the sort of low poster I don't mind seeing - has some opinions, and is willing to elucidate a little on why they hold them.

Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, well there seems to be a fair bit going on here. Much too-ing and fro-ing to be found. At least the avatars are less confusing!

There seems to be a lot of anxiety about low posting because of the last game. I'm not really sure if Day 1 is really a good indicator of how the rest will go. But putting pressure on low posters early is probably the only way to avoid any repeats, so as such, I'm all for it.

In spite of Spite's trigger happiness (hehe), I reckon they're inno, seems a bit OTT for scum.

I don't get Thyr's weird statement. At first I thought I'd missed the explanation for it, but reading back Thyr's just sort of ignoring it. Although I'm not completely convinced it's really a good reason for a lynch. But pehaps it's too much to hope that someone would get 'syllables' and 'characters' confused as well as not be able to count particularly well.

Kesso, that's probably just first day voting for you. And also conviniently the only other train that's building up aside from your own. Which I'm going to have to go and take another look at, I think, because I don't really get it.

So, as such I'm on the fence for the next couple of hours, hopefully there will be a bit more posting closer to the end of day.

Also, teletubbies? Really? Glad Tiam took one for the team there...

Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hmm, looking at things I'm going to

Vote Kessobahn

HP's case does look odd, and if he was symping Thyr that's a strange way to go about doing it.
In any case, we need a lynch.

That said, I'd still like to hear from Thyr.

By itself I thought the vote looked a bit odd...it was as if it came out of the blue, if you'll pardon the pun . However, in conjunction with the first post I think it looks a little better. There's evidence of an evolving thought process here. I've never quite been sure about where I stand about players who change their mind. On the one hand, it feels like they are being honest. On the other hand, I know when I've been scum in the past I've had a tendency to "let myself be convinced" about something. :shrug: In this case it feels sincere to me...but then I might be a little biased since Ruse was agreeing with me .

There's enough here that it feels like Ruse is actually playing, which is more than I can say for the previous two. I'll stick with my Meanas vote for the time being. Don't have time for any more right now. Might try and do a few more tomorrow if I can find the time.

Seems he is going out of his way to defend someone and explain someone's actions who was under very very little preassure.

EDIT: X-Post with Emur >.<

[Mockra]

Argh. Long day at work here. Glad to see discussion happening, though.

Ruse hasn't appeared since I said this last night -

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 07:48 AM, said:

Ruse, on 30 November 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

I'm all aloooooone. I think I have the worst timezone ever.

Ruse, instead of whining, maybe you should use your time to give your thoughts again? Except this time don't make a post right after saying, "Oops, got my facts wrong, guess that was all bullshit..." You're pretty much back where you were before Galain and whoever called you out, since you blatantly dismissed everything you said. So...try again?

I found his "Here's three or four sentences worth of thoughts - oh wait, it's all meaningless because I misread the thread" pretty weird, and since he didn't come back and even say anything, it's definitely suspicious. He's deliberately avoiding giving opinions on thread, and barely participating otherwise. The "to/fro" connection is interesting too.

Thyrllan has been my top suspect since the latter half of day 1, and I don't think that's changed. He's definitely participated a lot more since then but it bothers me that he won't come out and explain why he was being so evasive early on. It's just strange. Maybe that's unfair but my gut tells me something is up here.

Vote Thyrllan

I'm going to be gone for a bit but should be able to return before timeout, although maybe only for a short while, so I wanted to get my vote down just in case. The other players I suspect are Ruse, HP, and maybe Ano...I need to reread the case on Ano at some point, though.

[Mockra]

Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 06:09 AM, said:

Is it me or are there a bunch of long quote blocks with no commentary after them on this page? It's such a tease.

Hood, on 30 November 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

as you can see there was a almost a hour between there cases more then enough time for them to conlude and then mess up as to why the would go after the same person well that would have to be a mess up wouldn't it no right minded scum would both go after the same target unless they messed up
tennes the fact that people thought that I was kesso's symp speaks not to my symp hood but to their own lack of ability
mockra the only reason that scum would make the same case on a person is that they messed up it has happened before there for it is possible.
galain what else could you possibly say that you were in fact scum and that atrahal was your partner and that you had thought that you were suppose to make the case while atrahal thought that he was suppose to make the case you two still look scummy and much to chummy for my tastes
still getting caught up

I don't see how that lines up with your original story on this whole thing:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

Emphasis mine. So you're saying that from this first post you actually meant that they were two killers who got confused about who was supposed to make the case on Kesso? I guess you could interpret it that way but it reads to me like you suggested they were coordinating their attacks on purpose, not by mistake. And yeah, that is a ridiculous position because scum would probably not do that, but it just sounds to me like you made a shitty case and are trying to salvage it by changing the angle.

I'm looking hard, but I can't see the devastating contradiction that you can here, Mockra. Can you enlighten me? What I see is HP first saying that he feels that when two people make cases on the same person in quick succession, they're colluding off-thread and agreed to both attack that person....and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP.

So where's the horrible contradiction? Both posts say that Atrahal and Galain agreed to attack Kessobahn - the later post just says they made a mistake in both attacking, with cases, at nearabouts the same time, when they should have come at Kesso from different angles. Have I missed something, because at the moment it seems to me that you're working quite hard to make something out of not much?

I think Tennes covered this but I found it hard to read his posting style. Basically, the original argument HP made was that the cases being posted so close together was indication of collusion off-thread - that is, direct agreement between Atrahal and Galain to team up and make cases on Kesso. This is supported primarily by how close together the cases were in time. Later, when someone brings up the fact that scum probably aren't so dumb that they'd make cases on the same person an hour apart, HP changes his story to say that Atrahal and Galain are suspicious because they must have agreed off thread but then messed up the execution on thread, and only one person should have posted the case.

I find this contradictory because HP is going about making his case in reverse order. A good case is based on connections that lead to a conclusion that implicates a player or players. HP has started with his conclusion of the guilty players and when one connection doesn't seem strong enough to support his conclusions, he makes up a different and opposite connection to support it instead. This is bogus because he's pushing his case pretty hard and ignoring almost everything else, but he had to change his story in order to keep the case potentially valid. For those reasons he's on my list and the way he's making his case is totally forced instead of natural.

Also, I just noticed something you said - "and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP". I wonder if we're misunderstanding each other a bit? I'm saying that HP's case is that Atrahal and Galain actually DID NOT mean to post those cases - they only meant to have one person do it but they each thought it was themselves instead of the other person. That's what HP has said. It sounds to me like your interpretation of "mistake" is that they made the cases like they agreed to off-thread, but that plan turned out to be a mistake because it was too obvious.

[Gamelon]

So Omtose says he agrees w/ Galain about looking at the end of a train, then finds the defense of Ruse odd after saying it was reasonable? Am I missing something here?

[Spite]

Hey. I'm just letting you know that I'm going to be worthless for a few days. My schedule turned crazy earlier than expected. I've got some deadlines I have to meet so no mafia for me for a few days. If that means that I should be modkilled then so be it. I can put in the obligatory post to avoid the modkill timer but I won't be able to contribute quality wise until next week. I'll let the modgod deside but I put this out there for everyone else if they want to put in their two cents.

Sorry all around.

Spite

[Gamelon]

Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 30 November 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well galain did start the game with a joke vote and out of the timing (votes) and the two players he is possibly following onto the train it might go either way. thyr and atrahal together and starting a train doesnt seem very much like killer behaviour if they had off thread comms its a fairly risky tactic to take. To have galain as symp and following them onto the train just borders on ridiculious.

I would guess if galain is symp it would be to only one of those two. I would be it 60/40 to atrahal rather than thyr though at the moment though, not sure why. There just seems to be more cohesion between the way atrahal and galain are playing.

Surely if you see cohesion in two players' games you'd expect them to have off-thread comms, rather than being a killer/symp combo? Short of telepathy, you're not going to see a master and symp able to work in harmony this early in the game. In fact, I notice that Rashan has made a similar point in the next post.

atst, it's actually pretty unlikely this game has any true "symps". While most of us know nothing about the sengoku period, the characters are neverthless drawn from historical facts and figures, and it wouldn't do to have someone CF with their name and as town only for the wikipedia page about how they secretly were in league with the Hojo be posted. And given that this is the first game, I don't think Shin will be straying too far from actual history in setup, but rather expecting us to diverge from history only through our own actions.

This post caught my eye the first time around and on re-reading it, it makes me really take notice. Why would anybody want us to think that there were no symps? Based on wikis & history? No, we're always looking for them. I'll admit I haven't played as many games as most of you, but so far in my experience, where there are killers, there are symps. I feel this comment only serves scum team by trying to make us look for less enemies.

Thyr was ready to quit, when he got some encouragement from Osseric & Omtose (I think it was) then he pulled out a case that I couldn't buy. The Ruse thing is thought-provoking, but for now, I must:

Vote Thyrllan

[Osseric]

Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

Also, I just noticed something you said - "and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP". I wonder if we're misunderstanding each other a bit? I'm saying that HP's case is that Atrahal and Galain actually DID NOT mean to post those cases - they only meant to have one person do it but they each thought it was themselves instead of the other person. That's what HP has said. It sounds to me like your interpretation of "mistake" is that they made the cases like they agreed to off-thread, but that plan turned out to be a mistake because it was too obvious.

No, no misunderstanding, I realise what you meant, but I was providing an alternate interpretation of what HP could have meant. But what is slightly irritating that I'm here replying to your posts rather than HP himself - he should come on and tell us where he stands on this issue now.

Spite, on 30 November 2011 - 11:51 PM, said:

Hey. I'm just letting you know that I'm going to be worthless for a few days. My schedule turned crazy earlier than expected. I've got some deadlines I have to meet so no mafia for me for a few days. If that means that I should be modkilled then so be it. I can put in the obligatory post to avoid the modkill timer but I won't be able to contribute quality wise until next week. I'll let the modgod deside but I put this out there for everyone else if they want to put in their two cents.

Sorry all around.

Spite

It's not that I don't believe you - I do - but in a future game I'm very tempted to try and fake this excuse and see if I can get all the way to the end of the game having done nothing

[Osseric]

remove vote

Vote Ruse

The Anomandaris thing is going nowhere for now (which is fair enough, there is little evidence), so Ruse is the next most valid lynch target for me.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2, 3 hours and 1 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

5 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Ruse, Tennes,

[Ruse]

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Hmm, I'm usually a bit reluctant to post signalling cases, as usually they pan out to be, to make use of what seems to be becoming a common phrase, farts in the wind. But perhaps it has some relevance in the situation.

Here's Ruse's first post of substance:

Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, well there seems to be a fair bit going on here. Much too-ing and fro-ing to be found. At least the avatars are less confusing!

There seems to be a lot of anxiety about low posting because of the last game. I'm not really sure if Day 1 is really a good indicator of how the rest will go. But putting pressure on low posters early is probably the only way to avoid any repeats, so as such, I'm all for it.

In spite of Spite's trigger happiness (hehe), I reckon they're inno, seems a bit OTT for scum.

I don't get Thyr's weird statement. At first I thought I'd missed the explanation for it, but reading back Thyr's just sort of ignoring it. Although I'm not completely convinced it's really a good reason for a lynch. But pehaps it's too much to hope that someone would get 'syllables' and 'characters' confused as well as not be able to count particularly well.

Kesso, that's probably just first day voting for you. And also conviniently the only other train that's building up aside from your own. Which I'm going to have to go and take another look at, I think, because I don't really get it.

So, as such I'm on the fence for the next couple of hours, hopefully there will be a bit more posting closer to the end of day.

Also, teletubbies? Really? Glad Tiam took one for the team there...

I noticed this phrase here, which popped up a couple of posts later in a similar sort of post by Anomandaris:

Anomandaris, on 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

well a lo of two and fro on day 1. Interesting that people say i was interacting with galain and rashan when someone voted for me and another voted for them and I hadnt nor did post since. Early cases are always hard to fathom, and day 1 when people havent really started make that more so.

The triple vote was very strange, people seem to forget that no matter if you are town or scum you should always try at least to look inno. Strange voting behaviour never looks like an inno tactic.

3 vote Thyrllan: Emurlahn, Mockra, Kessobahn

3 votes Kesso: Thryllan, Atrahal, Galain

1 vote Atrahal: Hood's Path

This voting also looks highly suspect given that three people are voting for kesso and both mockra and kesso come on to vote thyrllan while hp comes on and builds against atrahal with a case built on more than one player voting for another player within a certain time frame. Though i dont find thyrllan or kesso especially suspicious by their content the division of votes at what is generally a turning point phase of the day makes me think there is something in this.

vote kessobahn

The atrahal and thyrllan votes feel more like a way to counteract this train than an actual case built upon suspicious activity.

Made me think perhaps Anomandaris was trying to let Ruse know that he was her symp. Later on I had a look over Ruse...it was perhaps slightly kinder than it should have been. Ruse comes back and says:

Ruse, on 30 November 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

Oh piss, didn't see your post on me, Galain.

Thanks dude, now I look like a low poster who's seen their name and come when called.
<.<

Now, what if Ruse thinks I'm her symp because of the way I was mildly positive about her contribution? In that light, this post reads like an admonishment for letting their master look bad.




It's kind of tenuous, and as I said I normally don't try to make these kinds of cases because I don't think they hold a lot of water, but I thought it was worth putting out there since these two are being discussed.

Or I was just slightly annoyed (with myself, admittedly) that I was posting right after someone decided to take a look at my posts, which just looks awkward.

As for the rest, I was going to say that phrases sometimes stick in people's head when they're reading, but then again the spelling thing is really odd. And I can't fathom why it would be done on purpose. It was way too early in the game for Anno to be bored enough to fake symping an inno, and there was enough other stuff going on with Kess and Thyr at the time.

I know I'm inno. I don't know if Thyr is. I was fairly convinced that Thyr was inno, but the thing about the game having no symps makes me a bit nervous. This game has pretty much revolved around possible symping so far, so it's strange that Thyr would come on and suggest that we don't have any given that we have 16 people playing a scum vs. town game


Vote Thyr