[Mason of Death]

Ok, so this is a question I've heard before, but didn't know the answer to, and I've never seen it answered elsewhere on this forum either. So here goes:

On page 391 (paperback) of HOC, Cotillion is talking to Lostara, who has just had a flashback to Quick Ben being involved in Kellanved's purge of the cult of Rashan. Cotillion then appears and says:

'Delat, who had a different name for the mission and was my partner's responsibility besides - Delat let Bidithal go. I suppose it seemed a ... a betrayal yes? It certainly did to my partner. Certainly to this day Shadowthrone - who was not Shadowthrone then, simply a particularly adept and ambitious practitioner of Rashan's sister warren, Meanas - to this day, I was saying, Shadowthrone strokes eternal fires of vengeance.'

Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. Don't know if anyone (or everyone) has figured it out already, but I haven't seen this answer yet, so when I saw it, I thought I'd post it. Cheers!

[Dolorous Menhir]

Good spot. Seems to be an attempt to work around the old conundrum - how did Quick Ben leave the priesthood of Shadowthrone before Kellanved's ascension?

[tiam]

Dolorous Menhir, on 15 November 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

Good spot. Seems to be an attempt to work around the old conundrum - how did Quick Ben leave the priesthood of Shadowthrone before Kellanved's ascension?

That quote is problematic. However he may have left the priesthood yet there could still be a link (as others in later books have). It possible he may have left the priesthood before Kellenved came to power. Yet when he returned he still felt a level of companionship/familiarity and let Bidathal go.

[Abyss]

There are also various cults of Shadow, not all of which worship Shadowthrone or acknowledge him as 'God of Shadow'.

[Ben Delat]

Where does it state Quick left the shadow cult before Kell ascended?

There is some time between when the event in the first post happened and when Quick has his first meeting with shadowthrone in GotM and we learn he was high up in the cult. I can't recall anywhere where it said he left before the emperor and dancer took over shadow. It is entirely possible Quick left sometime after Kell and Dancer dissapeared after their encounter with Surly but before everyone started to figure out who the new gods were.

[MillionSpots]

I was under the impression that QB served under Shadowthrone, based mainly on this quote from GotM:

Quote

Quick Ben met the Hound's red stare. 'Shadowthrone loves deals.'
The god sighed and sank back. 'Acolyte, indeed. Well, then, Wizard, speak on, while you can.'

QB wouldn't know that ST loved deals unless he knew ST's ways. At least that's how I see it. Or I could be mistaken. So I supposed QB left Shadow when ST had already ascended.

[Ben Delat]

^ that is the same impression I got going through the series. It seems there was a time period after their ascension when Quick was still in the cult. Since Quick seemed to know some of the intricacies of Shadowthrone the god only an acolyte would know. Plus Shadowthrone gets a bit pissed right after the part quoted above when quick pulls himself out fo shadow realm and Shadowthrone yells when he finally recognizes one of his old acolytes.

[Mason of Death]

As far as 'knowing Shadowthrone's intricacies' (which, by the way, sounds very, very wrong), like Stormy says at one point, 'Shadowthrone's just Ammanas, who's just Kellanved'. Let's not forget that these guys worked with Kellanved and Dancer for decades before they ascended. That said, Quick was obviously a part of the cult of Shadow, even a High Priest, at one point, but I think his letting Bidithal go (back when Kell and Dancer were still mortal) kind of soured his relationship with with the aforementioned mortal guys, leading to his hasty withdrawal from the cult of Shadow. Which, according to this theory, is why he wasn't able to pick Lostara up later, like he wanted to.

[Ben Delat]

but did they know at the time he had let Bidithal go? It didn't sound like it when I read the details when Cotillion was talking to Lostara.

Its open to conjecture in the end, after it all I don't think it is hate any more.

This post has been edited by Ben Delat: 17 November 2011 - 11:23 PM

[Vaddon Ra]

Mason of Death, on 15 November 2011 - 02:26 AM, said:

Ok, so this is a question I've heard before, but didn't know the answer to, and I've never seen it answered elsewhere on this forum either. So here goes:

On page 391 (paperback) of HOC, Cotillion is talking to Lostara, who has just had a flashback to Quick Ben being involved in Kellanved's purge of the cult of Rashan. Cotillion then appears and says:

'Delat, who had a different name for the mission and was my partner's responsibility besides - Delat let Bidithal go. I suppose it seemed a ... a betrayal yes? It certainly did to my partner. Certainly to this day Shadowthrone - who was not Shadowthrone then, simply a particularly adept and ambitious practitioner of Rashan's sister warren, Meanas - to this day, I was saying, Shadowthrone strokes eternal fires of vengeance.'

Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. Don't know if anyone (or everyone) has figured it out already, but I haven't seen this answer yet, so when I saw it, I thought I'd post it. Cheers!

Spoiler

Ah yeah! Good point...Kel is most certainly petty and insanely vengeful about any slight to himself...remember in SW when he's going on about someone stealing a fish from Shadow XD its ludicrous but I guess its his and he takes even the slightest personal slight to a ridiculous fury...oh and although Quick gets a lot of love...and I do enjoy him being in the books...I much prefer Kel and Tay as mages...especially Kel for his insanity. TBH 'Got you' part was tragic for Kalam...but awesome and sneaky and I love Kel for it Wants more of him...mayhaps in Karsa trilogy?

Watch the spoilers!~ Bubba

[worry]

Vaddon Ra you are the most spoiler posting dude on the board and you need to quit it.

[Lady Bliss]

I recently reread GoTM and had this thought... I can't remember the exact verbiage to quote, but ST said that Ben Delat could have risen high in his service, to which Quick thought or said that he HAD. I believe that Quick rose high working for Kellanved the Emperror, while he was a High Priest of Shadow, and it was the pre-ascended Kellanved that he betrayed. The fact that the emperor later became ST just confuses the sequence of events.

[Brujah]

Mason of Death, on 17 November 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

As far as 'knowing Shadowthrone's intricacies' (which, by the way, sounds very, very wrong), like Stormy says at one point, 'Shadowthrone's just Ammanas, who's just Kellanved'. Let's not forget that these guys worked with Kellanved and Dancer for decades before they ascended. That said, Quick was obviously a part of the cult of Shadow, even a High Priest, at one point, but I think his letting Bidithal go (back when Kell and Dancer were still mortal) kind of soured his relationship with with the aforementioned mortal guys, leading to his hasty withdrawal from the cult of Shadow. Which, according to this theory, is why he wasn't able to pick Lostara up later, like he wanted to.

Can someone explain further by what Mason meant by "he wasn't able to pick Lostara up later, like he wanted to."

Is he saying that QB wanted to "pick up" Lostara, and what for - what does that mean exactly?

I was always unclear as to the basic storyline to this event and players. And that was ok, because it seemed minor, and I never really went back to look, and sort of just forgot about it.

MODGOD EDIT - NO LATER BOOK DISCUSSION IN EARLIER BOOK FORUM.

So I was hoping to get some more info on this event/time/whatever.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 13 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

[Acorn]

To point out:

Lady Bliss, on 07 January 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

I recently reread GoTM and had this thought... I can't remember the exact verbiage to quote, but ST said that Ben Delat could have risen high in his service, to which Quick thought or said that he HAD. I believe that Quick rose high working for Kellanved the Emperror, while he was a High Priest of Shadow, and it was the pre-ascended Kellanved that he betrayed. The fact that the emperor later became ST just confuses the sequence of events.

The Cult of Shadow in question (Rashan) had no ruler, or if a ruler/god it was not ST, so the "purge" was a gambit by Kellanved to either make the Ascending easier (or even make it possible at all). Unless it was a simple question of warring factions of Shadow.

Therefor, one of a few things is true, by process of elimination.

1) Quick was a High Priest of Shadow, in service to ST, who asked him to go undercover to purge the Rashan cult, and he did.
or
2) Quick was a High Priest of Shadow, alongside Kellanved, and Kellanved sent him on this mission (either as Emperor, High Priest or both)

Either way he would have prior knowledge of how Kellanved/ST works..

Also of note:

It was not the only reason that ST is blood-boiling-mad at Quick. You have to also take into account that the "tricking" of ST was said (by Delat) to be the second time he'd tricked ST:
"
'Your answer, Lord, is in your very words.' Quick Bem raised his arms. 'I did indeed rise far, Shadowthrone, in service to you.'.... he heard Shadowthrone's scream of recognition.
'It is you! Delat! You shape-shifting bastard'
Quick Ben smiled. He'd done it. He was out of reach. He'd done it - again."

-GotM

Not sure of page/line/etc because I found this on my Kindle (search function ftw).

I would like to know what he meant by Shape-shifting... But I'll post that on GotM board!