[Tempest]

In Stoneweilder, the Queen of Dreams, along with all those other names, is described as raven-haired, and having travelled with Rake/Osserc, and in MOI Envy is described likewise. Since I hardly gather that Osserc and Rake were ones for getting loads of traveling buddies, would it be safe to assume that they are the same person? Or are we looking at different manifestations of a psyche (like Dassem and Dassembrae)?

[Abyss]

Pretty sure they are completely different people, but that's an interesting suggestion in terms of them being different aspects of the same.

Iirc, Envy was only affiliated with Rake, not Osserc or Brood. And i vaguely think it was Brood and Rake that the QoD travelled with, not Ossi.

[Tempest]

Yeah, I got ahead of myself. While I'm pretty positive (I can't actually remember which) TTH/MoI implied that Osserc, Rake, and Envy traveled together for a time, i don't have the books on hand to check just now. However, I do have Stoneweilder here and read that passage again, and it only indicated Rake, not Osserc, so yup sorry, definitely got ahead of myself on that one!

[tiam]

 Abyss, on 21 October 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

Pretty sure they are completely different people, but that's an interesting suggestion in terms of them being different aspects of the same.

Iirc, Envy was only affiliated with Rake, not Osserc or Brood. And i vaguely think it was Brood and Rake that the QoD travelled with, not Ossi.

Actually the QOD notes in HOC that she and Osserc were companions to Loric. Its the same time she claims they were 'too powerful' to be friends'. I think at one point it was Rake,Brood,QOD,Osserc possibly others. Its the section when Loric lists his father companions and dismisses asking them for help. He dismisses Rake though I cant remember why, then dismisses Brood claiming he 'carries his own burdens these days' in reference to the Hammer probably. He finally settles on Triss

Where Lady Envy fits into this is unknown though she may have travelled with them atleast for a time. Also Im fairly certain the QOD and Envy are seperate entities. We know Triss was a mortal sorceress that grew into a god whereas Envy was the daughter of Sheltatha Lore and Draconus so while a nice idea of them being aspects of one another I dont think its possible.

EDIT- I thought Envy was a companion for a time but couldnt remember. HOC MMPB p.583- Loric lists Ossercs companions

Rake- 'no. A companion but never a friend'
Lady Envy- 'gods no'- This suggests familiarity between the two
Brood- 'he carries his own burdens these days'

Leaving one Triss

Hope that helps

This post has been edited by tiam: 21 October 2011 - 04:47 PM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

 tiam, on 21 October 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 21 October 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

Pretty sure they are completely different people, but that's an interesting suggestion in terms of them being different aspects of the same.

Iirc, Envy was only affiliated with Rake, not Osserc or Brood. And i vaguely think it was Brood and Rake that the QoD travelled with, not Ossi.

Actually the QOD notes in HOC that she and Osserc were companions to Loric. Its the same time she claims they were 'too powerful' to be friends'. I think at one point it was Rake,Brood,QOD,Osserc possibly others. Its the section when Loric lists his father companions and dismisses asking them for help. He dismisses Rake though I cant remember why, then dismisses Brood claiming he 'carries his own burdens these days' in reference to the Hammer probably. He finally settles on Triss

Where Lady Envy fits into this is unknown though she may have travelled with them atleast for a time. Also Im fairly certain the QOD and Envy are seperate entities. We know Triss was a mortal sorceress that grew into a god whereas Envy was the daughter of Sheltatha Lore and Draconus so while a nice idea of them being aspects of one another I dont think its possible.

Actually Envy also features in L'oric's list of Osserc's companion and he dismisses her without a second thought. The reason for not seeking Rake was that he was "a companion but never a fried."

Of course this sort of contradicts what Tool says to Toc, that at first Rake travelled with Brood and T'riss and then when they had taken their ways he met with Envy and Osserc. But then, Tool could have simply been wrong.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 23 October 2011 - 02:13 PM

[tiam]

 Bauchelain the Evil, on 21 October 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

 tiam, on 21 October 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 21 October 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

Pretty sure they are completely different people, but that's an interesting suggestion in terms of them being different aspects of the same.

Iirc, Envy was only affiliated with Rake, not Osserc or Brood. And i vaguely think it was Brood and Rake that the QoD travelled with, not Ossi.

Actually the QOD notes in HOC that she and Osserc were companions to Loric. Its the same time she claims they were 'too powerful' to be friends'. I think at one point it was Rake,Brood,QOD,Osserc possibly others. Its the section when Loric lists his father companions and dismisses asking them for help. He dismisses Rake though I cant remember why, then dismisses Brood claiming he 'carries his own burdens these days' in reference to the Hammer probably. He finally settles on Triss

Where Lady Envy fits into this is unknown though she may have travelled with them atleast for a time. Also Im fairly certain the QOD and Envy are seperate entities. We know Triss was a mortal sorceress that grew into a god whereas Envy was the daughter of Sheltatha Lore and Draconus so while a nice idea of them being aspects of one another I dont think its possible.

Actually Envy also features in L'oric's list of Osserc's companion and he dismisses her without a second thought. The reason for not seekingRake was the he was "a companion but never a fried."

Of course this sort of contradicts what Tool says to Toc, that at first Rake travelled with Brood and T'riss and then when they had taken their ways he met with Envy and Osserc. But then, Tool could have simply been wrong.

Lol I thought Envy was mentioned so looked it up while you were posting. Ninja edit FTW

As for the Tool thing its possible that he wasnt wrong simply those groups werent always so distinct. Its plausible they met up and travelled for a time yet didnt come into contact with the Tlan Imass

[Tempest]

Ha, yeah, given so many thousands of years, I suppose in the end of the day anyone could've traveled with anyone, so it's not really worth reading too much into. Cheers!

[Kanese S's]

Wait... how did I miss the fact that Envy is part Edur?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

 Kanese S, on 08 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

Wait... how did I miss the fact that Envy is part Edur?

Well she's not Edur per se...she's the daughter of two Elder God's, one of which is revered by the Edur. There's definitely a connection there, but I guess you could say she's 1/4th edur at best.

[Kanese S's]

Sheltatha Lore is the daughter of Scabandari, is she not? And Scabandari was Edur (who is Sheltatha Lore's mother? Am I just forgetting or is that never mentioned?), as much as Silchas Ruin and Anomander Rake are Andii. That makes Sheltatha Lore at least 1/2 Edur, ascendant or not, depending on who her mother is (she could very well be full Edur, for all I know). That means that Lady Envy is 1/4 or 1/2 Edur, depending on who her maternal grandmother is. I just find that interesting.

[worry]

Sheltatha's mom is T'iam. You're right about Scabby as daddy though, and therefore the Edur lineage. So Envy and Spite are 1/4 Edur.

[Kanese S's]

Ahh, right. Still kinda interesting to me.