[worry]

Anyone else starting to get the feeling this show isn't all it's cracked up to be?

[Serenity]

Oponn Relationship, on 05 April 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

Anyone else starting to get the feeling this show isn't all it's cracked up to be?

I've had that feeling since the farm in season 2 . . . and yet I still watch it. D'oh!

Spoiler

Really hope it's Glen - although I reckon the only reason they didn't show who it was is because they're re-negotiating contracts during the off-season and they're waiting to see who demands the most money

[Kruppe'sStainedClothing]

Kinda think they took one of the best moments in the show's history with an incredible introduction and intense moment, and then just butchered it just like the unseen victim

watching them try to justify it on talking dead was laughable

This post has been edited by Kruppe'sStainedClothing: 05 April 2016 - 07:25 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Overall I really liked the episode - we watched it without ad breaks which I think probably contributed to an "overly long" feeling - I really didn't feel that. Sure, the roadblock idea has some holes in it but I still enjoyed it and I liked the build up of tension it created. I really bought that "penned in" feeling. Jeffrey Dean Morgan is brilliant and the whole introduction worked like a charm for me.

The final twenty seconds spoiled an otherwise strong episode for me. Cheap and unnecessary.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 06 April 2016 - 07:58 AM

[worry]

Fear doesn't have its own thread, right? Anyway, solid ep, and show is still so much better than TWD.

[Nicodimas]

Oponn Relationship, on 11 April 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Fear doesn't have its own thread, right? Anyway, solid ep, and show is still so much better than TWD.

Still makes the same mistake as TWD...let's let character just talk to others and broadcast their position. I very certain someone can chime in better than than me on this tech, but wouldn't they be really easy to find that way?

http://www.boatingsf...is-on-your-boat

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 11 April 2016 - 08:02 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

That last episode was stupid from top to bottom. At least for once they ended a season differently than they normally do,

[Malankazooie]

[worry]

That was pretty rad. It felt like actual horror. I imagine if they hadn't squandered these characters over all those terrible episodes, this one would have been even more of a doozy.

[Malankazooie]

I've pieced together who Abraham was as a kid. He was South Park's Cartman. A foul mouthed ginger who grows up to be a bad ass in the zombie apocalypse. The "suck my nuts" phrase seals it.

Also, some uber-fan has stated on another forum that there are Easter eggs in early episodes (like back to season 1 ) that set the beginning of The Walking Dead soon after the 2016 presidential election. I haven't made that connection myself, but that is bonkers if it's true.

[worry]

That seems odd, since FtWD sets the start of the zombie apocalypse as 2010 (at least according to some grave markers).

[Malankazooie]

Yeah, he's probably just some supporter of one side or the other just trolling, I never bought into it myself, just though it would be crazy it it was true. Anyway, next week we get to see "The Kingdom" and a tiger and a King Ezekiel. Also, more Abraham! (according to Talking Dead)

[QuickTidal]

So here's my issue now, on the back of HATING the finale last season...both for it's pointlessness (wandering and encountering roadblocks as some jumped up attempt to push fear on us and the crew) and for it's Dallas-esque fucking cliffhanger (which shows that showrunner/writer Scott Gimple is more interested in gimmicky-string-alongs than telling a complete and satisfying story)...

The premiere did only one thing right...it showed us the outcome of the cliffhanger. I HONESTLY thought that episode 1 would have us watching Morgan and Carol in the Kingdom and we would not find out who was on the other end of Negan's bat till ep 2. Because that is the kind of shenanigans this show has gotten up to in the last few seasons. Forget drama from the narrative..let's make forced/fake drama by fooling the audience and pushing what they will choose to watch as far as keeping them hanging. The amount of times this show has ended an ep on a cliffhangery moment only to NOT show what happened for more than one more ep is STAGGERING. Like fuck you Scott Gimple. Tell your story, stop fucking around.

Spoilers for the ep

Spoiler

So let's call this what it was. Torture porn. The fact that they showed the victim(s) is the only thing I'm giving this episode in a favourable light. The fact that they cobbled the whole ep around the cliff-hanger reveal (even the Rick & Negan "go get me my axe" bit was all about flashing back to the people Rick knows and the scenes of death themselves) shows how much this show likes screwing with the audience (it's no coincidence that Gimple wrote this episode himself) as opposed to progressing the story. Let me ask this, how many pages is the death in the comics? I think it's three pages [which includes a splash page], comprised of about 6 or 7 panels. Gimple has written a full 43 minutes to exhibit 6 or 7 panels (minus the extra bit with Carl and the hand threat and the 2-3minutes of grief afterwards) of a comic book. That should tell you all you need to know about this.

Yes, we need to see Negan as this unstoppable force who doesn't feel and just DOES. I get that this needs to be ingrained. But you don't need 43 minutes to do this. You need 15-20 TOPS. The fact that nearly the entire running time is comprised of the deaths and Negan spouting off shows me what's wrong here. We also don't need to see the deaths in such graphic detail. The drama of the scene doesn't ask for it. It asks for it to be brutal, but you can do more with camera-work and sound than you can with fake gore and popping eyeballs. But instead here they decided to go for an hour of misery sadism porn...and I mean there is bleak and there is bleak....this was bleak for bleakness-sake.

The only compunction I feel to keep watching this show is that I just paid $35 for the season on iTunes as we don't get the channel anymore...but otherwise I'd be out...and I might even be out anyways and just let my wife continue to watch on her own. But yeah, this has gone over the top and completely lost itself as a result.

Remember the early eps where the arcs were about the people? Negan's character is literally built around horrific, ball-crushing sadism...and the worst bit...

comics spoilers

Spoiler

...He NEVER gets what's coming to him. He's STILL not dead in the comics...and in fact Rick and Co. are using him as a blunt weapon against newer villains. I'm sorry. That's like keeping Joffrey alive for seasons and season on GoT and never giving him what's coming to him. So no matter how much the episode shows you "here's the bad guy...just WAIT till he gets what's coming to him, just wait till he dies!"...yeah, don't even remotely expect that. It's not going to happen.

EDIT: Hoisted this from the TOR review of the ep....and it's very fitting for how I feel.

Kirkman’s zombie apocalypse is designed to never end. While that seemed exciting in the first season, in the seventh it’s become a repetitive cycle of find a sanctuary, bicker with those already living there, get attacked by outsiders, destroy the sanctuary, spend time on the road, find a sanctuary, and on and on and on. In the absence of thematic tension, character development, or emotional growth is empty shock and torture porn-esque gore.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 October 2016 - 01:23 PM

[worry]

Wow, that's just a totally different perspective from mine. IMO "torture porn" is always thrown around with such invective, like it's inherently a disparagement and not just another (post-)trending subgenre of horror. There's great torture porn (Martyrs; Audition), good stuff (Wolf Creek), mediocre (too many to list), and of course plenty of dismal stuff (imo the Saw movies). But that's true of all horror subgenres. Then you have TWD, a consistently bad show most weeks with shockingly infrequent horror given its premise, and "character" work they botch script after script (I do not pine for the days this show was "about people"). If anything this didn't go far enough in wiping the slate, but at least what we got was a real villain and some genuinely disgusting, grisly effects work. The last time they did anything even remotely as cool was when Noah died. Frankly the deaths in this one felt -- finally -- like a breath of fresh air. Which doesn't mean I'm optimistic about the season -- the show walks in circles, no doubt -- but Negan has already offered some villainous course-correction from that abysmal seasons-long Governor arc.

[Malankazooie]

As far as the "graphic detail":

Spoiler

Wasn't the death of Glenn pretty much verbatim on how it went down in the comic? Drooping eye and all? With Negan so called "spouting off"?

So I guess if you dislike the comic, you'll not like how they pretty much copied it exactly how it went down in the comic for television?

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

As far as the "graphic detail":

Spoiler

Wasn't the death of Glenn pretty much verbatim on how it went down in the comic? Drooping eye and all? With Negan so called "spouting off"?

So I guess if you dislike the comic, you'll not like how they pretty much copied it exactly how it went down in the comic for television?

No, that was my point. The comic handled this in gruesome, but short order. It didn't lollygag on it for a whole episode.

[Malankazooie]

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

As far as the "graphic detail":

Spoiler

Wasn't the death of Glenn pretty much verbatim on how it went down in the comic? Drooping eye and all? With Negan so called "spouting off"?

So I guess if you dislike the comic, you'll not like how they pretty much copied it exactly how it went down in the comic for television?

No, that was my point. The comic handled this in gruesome, but short order. It didn't lollygag on it for a whole episode.

According to Scott Gimple and Robert Kirkman on the Talking Dead after show, they really wanted to convey that this season is a reset. Everything before Negan (seasons 1 to 6) and every thing after Negan (season 7 to season ?). So I think that is why they included the extras:

Spoiler

Added death of Abraham, Negan forcing Rick to take a little trip with him to break him down, Carl's arm almost chopped off by Rick...etc.

All added to leave no doubt that Rick is no longer the leader/badass that takes no guff from human threats. Instead now, a broken shell that will satisfy Negan's requests for what ever he needs.

[QuickTidal]

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

As far as the "graphic detail":

Spoiler

Wasn't the death of Glenn pretty much verbatim on how it went down in the comic? Drooping eye and all? With Negan so called "spouting off"?

So I guess if you dislike the comic, you'll not like how they pretty much copied it exactly how it went down in the comic for television?

No, that was my point. The comic handled this in gruesome, but short order. It didn't lollygag on it for a whole episode.

According to Scott Gimple and Robert Kirkman on the Talking Dead after show, they really wanted to convey that this season is a reset. Everything before Negan (seasons 1 to 6) and every thing after Negan (season 7 to season ?). So I think that is why they included the extras:

Spoiler

Added death of Abraham, Negan forcing Rick to take a little trip with him to break him down, Carl's arm almost chopped off by Rick...etc.

All added to leave no doubt that Rick is no longer the leader/badass that takes no guff from human threats. Instead now, a broken shell that will satisfy Negan's requests for what ever he needs.

I loathe Gimple...the guy does stupid ass things as a writer....and then jumps into the media and basically tells everyone what his intentions were....no, if you were a better writer Gimple you would not have to explain yourself.

Kirkman is little better. The only writer I know who hates that people come to love his characters.

I'm also not willing to buy that they needed a whole episode to do what took the comic 3 pages. Most reviews that are hard on the ep seem to agree with me that it didn't need to be an hour of basically the one point. That was excessive and indulgent.

[Tattersail_]

I watched it, and loved it.

Spoiler

I did not see two main characters dying, I had Sasha on my bet and the wife had Abraham but none of us had Glenn too. I was hoping at some point he'd just sink the axe into Negan's head and take leadership.

Why does the episode have to be a reset? I really did like how Rick and Co got from A to B.

Poor Glenn, poor Maggie, poor viewers. I loved Abraham and Glenn.

[Malankazooie]

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 25 October 2016 - 09:03 PM, said:

As far as the "graphic detail":

Spoiler

Wasn't the death of Glenn pretty much verbatim on how it went down in the comic? Drooping eye and all? With Negan so called "spouting off"?

So I guess if you dislike the comic, you'll not like how they pretty much copied it exactly how it went down in the comic for television?

No, that was my point. The comic handled this in gruesome, but short order. It didn't lollygag on it for a whole episode.

According to Scott Gimple and Robert Kirkman on the Talking Dead after show, they really wanted to convey that this season is a reset. Everything before Negan (seasons 1 to 6) and every thing after Negan (season 7 to season ?). So I think that is why they included the extras:

Spoiler

Added death of Abraham, Negan forcing Rick to take a little trip with him to break him down, Carl's arm almost chopped off by Rick...etc.

All added to leave no doubt that Rick is no longer the leader/badass that takes no guff from human threats. Instead now, a broken shell that will satisfy Negan's requests for what ever he needs.

I loathe Gimple...the guy does stupid ass things as a writer....and then jumps into the media and basically tells everyone what his intentions were....no, if you were a better writer Gimple you would not have to explain yourself.

Kirkman is little better. The only writer I know who hates that people come to love his characters.

I'm also not willing to buy that they needed a whole episode to do what took the comic 3 pages. Most reviews that are hard on the ep seem to agree with me that it didn't need to be an hour of basically the one point. That was excessive and indulgent.

Yeah, I don't know. I think if they would have covered the Negan brutality in just like the first 1/4 or 1/3 of the hour and then moved on to something else (like Carol and Morgan at The Kingdom), I dunno, I think it would have watered down the impact and the breaking down of Rick that it accomplished (or even lamer, if they would have jumped back between the two). It was brutal sure, and I didn't need Gimple or Kirkman to explain what they were accomplishing with the episode. When they stated such on Talking Dead, they did so matter of factly, meaning they got that the audience got what they were trying to do.