[Kalse]

Korlat, on 17 August 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 17 August 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Thyrllan proposes that Fener could be scum silencing themselves in order to look innocent.

If this is the case there doesn't even need to be a silence, it could just be an excuse that scum can use to not have to talk up when it is convenient for them.

It seems very unlikely this would work, and it'd be a big risk.

The suspicion about silencer roles silencing themselves to avoid being very involved and dodge the more arbitrary day one lynch is a staple of day one in these kind of days.

The problem is that it's based on guessing at the thought process of whoever took the action.

It's similar to the low poster problem. It's not based on thread information, but WIFOM about how someone might play in certain circumstances.

[Kalse]

Remove vote

Vote karatallid

I think TS looks like he's symping more strongly than Osseric did, Osserics reaction was pretty reasonable, and my vote always had an element of trying to get the game going involved.

I think TS has some questions to answer. The timing of the vote looks dodgy aswell. It comes just after a big discussion about whether cult could be M&P and accusations of people trying to confuse the thread, which is pretty serious. TS had been on for quite some time, so the vote doesn't seem right for a jokey/casual vote. Also, as D'riss pointed out, there are several players who made that sort of post.

[Telas]

so remind me why you are voting for Kara and then talking about TS for a couple of paragraphs after voting?

[Thyrllan]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 01:39 AM, said:

so remind me why you are voting for Kara and then talking about TS for a couple of paragraphs after voting?

Thyrllan believes that Kalse is attempting to accuse Tulas of symping Karatallid, and is therefore going for the evil killer scum with his vote rather than his erstwhile lackey.

[Kalse]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 01:39 AM, said:

so remind me why you are voting for Kara and then talking about TS for a couple of paragraphs after voting?

Why would I vote for the person I think is the symp?

[Kalse]

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

[Telas]

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 17 August 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

hey hey..checking in.

vote karatallid

for checking in but really being checked out. i was wanting to vote for someone that hadn't posted at all but that turns out to be fener and i know where that usually leads.

Karatallid, on 17 August 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Sigh...When did voting for your boss ever become a sign of potential signalling anyways?
i have never bought into that way of playing or thinking.

if i where a killer and someone voted for me i wouldn't automatically start thinking he could be signalling.
And if i where a symp i wouldnt be going around voting for my boss... might actually alienate your killer by mistake somehow.

anyways... thats beside the point here.

I cant really defend against someones random vote on me while i was away busy...just a pity it ended up on me i guess.

meh

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

what the hell is going on? why is fener only posting in pictures? what is silenced? what is up with thyrllan in his reference to himself in his posts?

d'riss you are acting the idiot. if it wasn't for all the other seemingly deliberate chaos i would vote you out just to eliminate the confusion you seem to want to spread.

i've got to go. kara thanks for joining the party. i got what i was looking for when i voted for you so

remove vote

this game is shaping up to NOT be a m&p game that my grandparents used to play.

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 17 August 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Sigh...When did voting for your boss ever become a sign of potential signalling anyways?

Around when people kept doing it.

It's certainly not uncommon.

However, it is usually pointless trying to catch it (either as town or scum), so the signalling is usually a certain kind of vote.

Kinds of vote that are dodgy:

1. Voting someone before they are online. Pretty obvious.
2. Voting with very forced reasoning. This can be a symp signalling or a master wanting to get a vote down to avoid the main trains later. Obviously a bit subjective.
3. Voting jokingly while the game is getting serious (TS can I feel be accused of this). Joke votes aren't in the innos interests. The problem is that innos still tend to do it fairly often(though it seems to be in decline) on day one, in the early joking phase, so it's only really if they do it after that when it is dodgy (since normally too many people are doing it, which gives the scum an easy place to hide a signal, and can't really help the innos until later when looking at patterns).
4. Voting for no reason, or just to vote. Similar reasons to 2.

ok, reading back through again, i see where you grabbed your train of thought. i mean, it seems like a weak case to me, esp since you seem to be just tagging along with D'riss who seems to have some really weak logic going on (claiming there was cult, tagging along with TS to see where the vote went, asking TS why he voted Kara when he explicitly explained his vote)

i;m not sure what the fuck is up with D'riss, but i think that he strikes me as more of a RI idiot than someone actually reliable. and i agree TS is untrustworthy but if he was a symp, why does he keep talking about being weaponless and asking for protection? i dunno, my gut tells me that TS and Osseric are in on something and Kara doesn't seem to be on their side, esp when digging at anthras' conversation with osseric (first time that was questioned iirc) if you think TS and osseric are roled town, then i could believe Kara is cult, but TS and osseric making and removing votes like their playing hopscotch is giving me the scum vibe

[Telas]

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

[Fener]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

[Fener]

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

this game is shaping up to NOT be a m&p game that my grandparents used to play.

[Kalse]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

Yes.

Poorly justified votes that come out of the blue are pretty suspicious as symp clues, and reasonably standard fare.

I will get to your post in a second.

[Telas]

Fener, on 18 August 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

i thought you were of the opinion that d'riss was cult or something like that. are you wanting to side with kalse and change your vote or are you just enjoying mutely making snide remarks in pictorial form? can you actually articulate an opinion with back up?

[Thyrllan]

Thyrllan believes that Fener couldn't articulate a decent opinion even if he weren't all silenced-up - Oooh, SNAP!

Thyrllan congratulates himself on his ability to poke fun at those who find it difficult to defend themselves, though simultaneously the omnisicient Thyrllan fears what insults are coming his way in pictorial form.

Thyrllan wishes to once again state his gut opposition to Galain and his yellow custard-like ways.

[Kalse]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:

ok, reading back through again, i see where you grabbed your train of thought. i mean, it seems like a weak case to me, esp since you seem to be just tagging along with D'riss who seems to have some really weak logic going on (claiming there was cult, tagging along with TS to see where the vote went, asking TS why he voted Kara when he explicitly explained his vote)

i;m not sure what the fuck is up with D'riss, but i think that he strikes me as more of a RI idiot than someone actually reliable. and i agree TS is untrustworthy but if he was a symp, why does he keep talking about being weaponless and asking for protection? i dunno, my gut tells me that TS and Osseric are in on something and Kara doesn't seem to be on their side, esp when digging at anthras' conversation with osseric (first time that was questioned iirc) if you think TS and osseric are roled town, then i could believe Kara is cult, but TS and osseric making and removing votes like their playing hopscotch is giving me the scum vibe

This argument is not good.

First of all, you may notice I wasn't around when TS voted. I came back, that having happened, read up, and agreed with D'riss that it looked scummy, moreso than my previous vote.

Claiming there was a cult-the OP mentions CF would be given as cultist. Different people have different definitions of M&P. Personally, I wouldn't have read it as cult, but then I've read lovecraft so it may have been more obvious for me.

Secondly, following TS onto a Kara vote is not weak logic. If you think someone is signalling a master, you vote for the master, not the symp (you seem to have failed to grasp this when questioning me earlier, so I would not claim a logical high ground were I you). It so happened that what TS did that looked like signalling was a vote.

It also seems pretty dodgy for you to claim you think the case is weak because D'riss wasn't sure about the setup of the game-something entirely unrelated to the strength of the case.

I feel the accusation of simply tagging along is invalid, since it implies someone hopping on a train without thought or belief in it. I gave some reasoning of my own, but yes, I do agree with D'riss' assessment of TS' vote. It's dodgy. I'm tagging along to the extent that there always is on lynch trains-I agree enough to vote.

You then refer to your earlier post, which i am about to move onto.

[Fener]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:43 AM, said:

Fener, on 18 August 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

i thought you were of the opinion that d'riss was cult or something like that. are you wanting to side with kalse and change your vote or are you just enjoying mutely making snide remarks in pictorial form? can you actually articulate an opinion with back up?

[Telas]

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:54 AM, said:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:

ok, reading back through again, i see where you grabbed your train of thought. i mean, it seems like a weak case to me, esp since you seem to be just tagging along with D'riss who seems to have some really weak logic going on (claiming there was cult, tagging along with TS to see where the vote went, asking TS why he voted Kara when he explicitly explained his vote)

i;m not sure what the fuck is up with D'riss, but i think that he strikes me as more of a RI idiot than someone actually reliable. and i agree TS is untrustworthy but if he was a symp, why does he keep talking about being weaponless and asking for protection? i dunno, my gut tells me that TS and Osseric are in on something and Kara doesn't seem to be on their side, esp when digging at anthras' conversation with osseric (first time that was questioned iirc) if you think TS and osseric are roled town, then i could believe Kara is cult, but TS and osseric making and removing votes like their playing hopscotch is giving me the scum vibe

This argument is not good.


interesting opinion ...

First of all, you may notice I wasn't around when TS voted. I came back, that having happened, read up, and agreed with D'riss that it looked scummy, moreso than my previous vote.


how was TS's scumminess more relevant than Galain's absence, esp when he hasn't popped back in since the beginning of the game, right? seems kind of odd to jump around on your voting, esp when you are trailing after other's reasoning not really providing much in the way of fresh perspective on your own.

Claiming there was a cult-the OP mentions CF would be given as cultist. Different people have different definitions of M&P. Personally, I wouldn't have read it as cult, but then I've read lovecraft so it may have been more obvious for me.

you talk about classic mafia memes such as signaling through voting and yet you think that claiming cult-dynamics for an M&P game isn't strange, or even disruptive?

Secondly, following TS onto a Kara vote is not weak logic. If you think someone is signalling a master, you vote for the master, not the symp (you seem to have failed to grasp this when questioning me earlier, so I would not claim a logical high ground were I you). It so happened that what TS did that looked like signalling was a vote.


considering that was the only reasoning you were using, as opposed to providing more quotes, asking for input, commenting on other aspects of Kara's behavior, etc, i thought you were just being careless and lazy in the same vein as d'riss and was not sure why you were just dropping one vote for another weak case

It also seems pretty dodgy for you to claim you think the case is weak because D'riss wasn't sure about the setup of the game-something entirely unrelated to the strength of the case.


i think that d'riss's inconsistencies are most likely ignorance, but that doesn't rule out he is acting the fool to be disruptive. i am just a little more cautious of opinions coming from unreliable sources

I feel the accusation of simply tagging along is invalid, since it implies someone hopping on a train without thought or belief in it. I gave some reasoning of my own, but yes, I do agree with D'riss' assessment of TS' vote. It's dodgy. I'm tagging along to the extent that there always is on lynch trains-I agree enough to vote.


if you believe that TS's vote for Kara is a solid argument, let's use an equally strong argument to say that you are just voting to be allied with someone and claim to have a valid reason for your vote. if D'riss's argument is enough to garner votes, then why are you the only one clinging to it?

You then refer to your earlier post, which i am about to move onto.

[Telas]

Fener, on 18 August 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:43 AM, said:

Fener, on 18 August 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM, said:

Kalse, on 18 August 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

While we're at it though, Telas, you could remind me why you've not contributed anything more significant than a strange RP analysis as justification for a vote.

you think that you are standing on something more solid?

i thought you were of the opinion that d'riss was cult or something like that. are you wanting to side with kalse and change your vote or are you just enjoying mutely making snide remarks in pictorial form? can you actually articulate an opinion with back up?

so you are saying that you voted for d'riss because of his scummy claims that this game had cult-dynamics when it was clearly an M&P game? Were there any other quotes from d'riss you would like to add? i mean, d'riss' claims could be easily construed as poor reading of the OP or just newbie ignorance.

[Telas]

and fener, were you mocking me (picture an eye) or kalse (picture a dragon) with the gravity lessons post. i may have misconstrued your comment as agreeing with kalse thank you

[Kalse]

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 12:21 AM, said:

since day 1 is all about trying to pick out potential signaling and scummy behavior, here is my current theory:

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

I'm sure this inn is way more scary than anything that I've watched lately. I just saw Resident Evil:Extinction, the TBS version, not scary at all. Somewhat entertaining but for a supposed horror flick a big disapointment. That movie had tentacles though. The stretchy kind.

I would like volunteers to stand in front and behind me at all times please.

here, i am most interested in the request for people to stand in front and behind him at all times (a call for the healer perhaps). the reason why may be given in this next post...

Massive stretch immediately. You think he's signalling for a town healer. Do you think a healer is really likely to go "Oh hey, some guy has mentioned he wants people standing next to him in an RP post that fits the theme of the game. He must be calling for a heal"?

Osseric, on 17 August 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

as he watches on, he feels someone's eyes following his every post, his shield laying close by he shuffles along the bench towards it, taking the strap of its holster he feels somewhat rather more relaxed. He leans back against the wall giving him maximum visibility across the room, he has his eyes on some patrons and the quite luscious bar lady. Tapping his fingers across the bench, thinking many thoughts, he setttles himself to wait a little longer.

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Looks like Osseric has the right idea. Leave as little skin exposed with a weapon close at hand. Monster thingy will look for easier targets. As I'm currently weaponless I scan the room looking for something to arm myself with while also looking for a good defensive position.

TS's post firstly links with oseeric, saying he has the right idea. however, TS also makes a comment about being weaponless (needing defense?) which makes me think he has a role and needs protection

Continuing to interpret an RP post, you decide that weaponless means he has a role and is vulnerable.

Of course this raises the question of why you would want to point out someone you think is roled and vulnerable on thread?

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 04:47 PM, said:

I see an ornate hat hook (people still use these things) sitting dusty by the door. Brass dragons as the hooks caught my eye. Hopefully that is a good sign as I snagged it as an inpromptu spear as this place has given me the willies since I first stepped in the door. The menance sensation has racheted up since I crossed the threshold and I'm instantly on the defensive. I am considering going back out in the rain but I spot a corner booth. That looks like a safe place to wait out the storm, I thought, as I head over there.

interesting reference to brass dragons. why TS conjures up this complex image seems unclear, unless you consider the weapon to be a metaphor for an alt with an avatar of a brass dragon (resembling osseric perhaps?)

Your theory is that is referring, or signalling to Osseric.

It seems more likely he is just RPing, to me.

Silanah, on 17 August 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 17 August 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 17 August 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

hey hey..checking in.

vote karatallid

for checking in but really being checked out. i was wanting to vote for someone that hadn't posted at all but that turns out to be fener and i know where that usually leads.

I was going to point this out too. I found it weird that Anthras jumped on D'riss for agreeing with him and accused me of "skimping" less than an hour after my first post when we have players like Karatallid who have only made one post early on, some who hadn't even posted yet (Barghast, Fener (who still hasn't posted)), and then Korlat whose only post so far was a vote with little explanation.

Korlat, on 17 August 2011 - 03:47 PM, said:

So you are voting Osseric because he looks like he is symping you?

Ill bite

Vote Osseric

So I find Korlat and Karatallid semi-suspicious. It's possible Fener just hasn't got a chance to play yet; happens a lot on day one. About Osseric:

Osseric, on 17 August 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

Anthras, on 17 August 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Osseric, on 17 August 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

Am I brave or just not a hundred pennies to the pound?

This is what i've been waiting for.

Osseric you sound excited about this.
Either you're deranged, or an M.
Or...

I am about the game but not about the "Inn of Death", it sounds like a Demon Inn, something to do with Galain...

This is the post where it looks like he's symping Galain. At first glance I thought this was pretty harmless, only a few people had posted at the time, and he's not actually defending Galain or really even commenting on his posts. In fact the post is kinda odd, what is Osseric even saying here? Seems like a joke about the setup, but why put Galain's name out there at all? I can definitely see this as signaling, which I'm sure is what drew the votes out.

Not sure what to make of everything right now but I'll be around.

and finally, I agree with Kara that again I see signaling here in this post, this time between osseric and anthras. I am very suspicious of people posting with "..." and letting someone else, maybe their team mate, fill in the blank. moreover, i haven't really seen any rebuttal from osseric or anthras for this particular accusation.

Ellipses are a sure scum tell. Osseric responded to accusations of symping Galain earlier. Kara wasn't accusing him of symping Anthras which is why there wasn't a response.

so i think there is definitely a link between osseric and TS (they are not voting for each other for one, and it is very interesting that a couple vote clusters, such as one for osseric, haven't started a lynch train) and very possibly a link between osseric and anthras

"Looks like osseric has the right idea" is the only bit that vaguely suggests a link to me.

The brass dragon seems a big stretch, but hey, it's possible.

Lots of people aren't voting each other.

i want to hear what anthras was indicating with the initial "M" in that later quote, and why osseric brought up Galain after talking about the seemingly unrelated topic of the Inn's name.

Vote Osseric, for suspicious associations and his potential to be a night killer.

And you finish by voting osseric.

My replies in red.

A couple of other points:

Telas, on 18 August 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:

and i agree TS is untrustworthy but if he was a symp, why does he keep talking about being weaponless and asking for protection? i dunno, my gut tells me that TS and Osseric are in on something and Kara doesn't seem to be on their side, esp when digging at anthras' conversation with osseric (first time that was questioned iirc) if you think TS and osseric are roled town, then i could believe Kara is cult, but TS and osseric making and removing votes like their playing hopscotch is giving me the scum vibe

You jump around ridiculously. Some times TS is a roled player asking for protection, others he is scum.

You claim to think Osseric and TS are scum, based on accusations of them signalling each other.

Thing is though, that in itself doesn't make much sense. For signalling, one of them must know the other is scum. If both know, there is no need for signalling. In a situation with a symp and a master, for both to signal, the master would have to signal back to the symp. Why? This is just unnecessarily risky. The symp knows the master, the master doesn't need to confirm it.

If you think you have evidence suggesting a player is a town role, why would you reveal it?

If you think he is scum, why the interpretation of weaponlessness, and your idea that he is trying to draw a heal? If being weaponless is hinting towards a role, a scum role is not the first thing that would come to mind. And why would scum need to draw a heal in a M&P game? Ok, scum have been known to hit symps, but the way around that is not trying to draw a heal with an RP post, it's letting the master know who you are-something symps want to do anyway.

Your interpretation stretches greatly, and your bits of analysis don't seem to fit together into a cohesive whole.

Taking your own interpretation, if RPing weaponless leads you to believe someone is roled(and potentially scum), then what does it make someone claiming to be armed?

Telas, on 17 August 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

here. i prefer the machete myself. cricket bat strapped on as well in reserve

[Telas]

ok, well let's think about how a cult would draw together, especially in the rich environment of RPing. the cult would want to identify members, make sure that the night kills didn't reduce their team size, and potentially point out pertinent facts to other cult members. this is under the assumption that nobody knows who is who, or that only two cult know each other and are probing for the other members.

this is risky, but as long as people were following suit and RPing as well, such signaling could be obscured fairly easily. now, cult most likely has 2 killer roles, esp. in a ".5" numbered mafia game. what if they have other roles, which according to the OP could include a healer or a guard. this would make more sense if....

....the town also had its own night killers. we have both sides taking pot shots overnight, and if we had a quicker moving game, we could have very active night scenes (we'll see when this day ends)

anyways, that is my straw man, and regardless, I believe their posts and vote changing are scummy enough as it stands. TS could be a healer requesting a guard, TS could be a symp asking not to be night killed, or TS could be a night killer requesting a heal/guard (meaning i misinterpreted his weaponless comment).

however, i feel very confident that osseric is one of the killers based on the above reasoning. TS, i am still unsure of his role.