[gandrin]

I have to agree that RotCG was subpar. I think the reason many people like it "better" though is that it actually tells a story in a way that can be, you know, understood (in contrast to MBotF, where you never have any idea what's going on until the end...and for some things not even then).

I really did like some of ICE's characters, notably Temper and Rell. Dassem and his Thel Akai friend are intriguing too. And Greymane is correctly mysterious.

But the biggest disappointment by far was that the "Crimson Guard" themselves were just plain boring, one dimensional characters. And moreso for Skinner, Cowl, and even Skimmer. The CG were just plain not very fun to read. Contrast that with the brief glimpses of CG (even the same characters) that SE wrote in GotM and MT, where I was DYING to read this book (I thought about that ending scene in Darujhistan for months, wanting to see a whole book about those awesome characters who showed up.... then phhhhffffftttttt).

Skinner worst of all. Just a big greedy brute with overpowered armor. THAT's Skinner?!?! This mythical guy we've heard about throughout all the books? C'mon!



But I'm 1/3 into Stonewielder and I like it a lot better. I'd suggest just finish RotCG. As much as you might not like it, at least it's not as frustrating plot-wise as many large swaths of MBotF where you wondered if you were just wasting your time.

[Brujah]

I think the Crimson Guard are exactly how they should be. Mostly just droll and boring, with a few exceptions. I mean you have to consider that they're basically like the Tlan Imass in the way that they just keep on living, losing parts of themselves overtime, consumed with but a single common goal. Seems fitting that they've fallen to such a droll bunch as a whole.
But you still have some good ones with depth. Iron Bars, Shimmer, Cowl, Stoop.
I don't think the CG was ever supposed to be really delved into their intimate lives. They're a tool to progress the story.
And also, early on I also couldn't wait to read about the big bad awesome CG, thinking they were all gonna be just like some elite Malazan marine force in their actions and personalities , but they're not. They're somewhat broken, somewhat evil, and not worthy of any development beyond a few of them who will play any major role.

I love SE, don't get me wrong, but I get sick of reading 100 straight pages of his inner monologue on everything sometimes. I just want to see some action.
iCE is just blatant, he gives the the story through character actions and dialogue, no metaphysical observations like Se is prone to do and do and sometimes overdue.
The real bonus to reading thr ICE books along with the SE books is getting to alter the reading style which keeps it fresh. It's freakishly genius.
ICE did a great job with his own chars. jumpy and the lot are fantastic. I could see them sitting around with hedge and fid and the best of them.

But ill tell u what I really would have liked. And bare with me it might sound crazy.
But I would liked to have had Toll the Hounds and RotCG merged as one book, with both authors writing they're parts. Is strip away at least 500 or 600 pages from TtHs which would be all the monotonous EXTRA INNER monologue about some of the smaller characters and scenes. TtH seemed inflated to me with plenty we could do without. And I don't mean to lose ANY of said inner monologue about the rest of the book. That's what makes SE so great. He can just go too far at times. If u take away ALOT of the more vague charters from Hounds such as anyone in Darjustan outside thr main cast (no fingered man who does murder), scorch and lef. Hell lose even all that story line involving Vidakis, and the mines. Basically I'm just saying you could make room for ICE to have written in the bulk of the best parts of RotCG in sub TtH.
The result. One book I wouldn't have been able to put down. Cuz I hate trading a part on interesting characters then have it jump to a field where a farmer is talking to his neighbor and ur like get to the good stuff.
That's my two cents. I think the two combined would have made a hell of a book.
Imagine. Reading back and forth between the end of Hounds and the end of RotCG. And its no spoiler to say the end of both books are beyond amazing. The end of Hounds is an information dump. The end of RotCG is an epic battle. Having these take simultaneous would be so excellent.
And of course some could say well why not combine the battle of Coral and this. Or the siege of pale with that. Or why not combine gardens with flashbacks to night of knives. Because I'm not just randomly linking these two. And I dont think this could apply anywhere else in any book at any time. I really think that the way TtHs and RotCG are written, along with their timeliness matching up, along with the inflated feel of TtH which I would just like to see replaced with more compelling story.
TtH is amazing don't get me wrong. I just feel that there's ALOT of dead weight you have to read through that I'd like to removed. And that made me think that what it was missing was action. Simply written action. So you'd have the best of both worlds. One chapter with SE musing on the frailty of humanity then the next you have Laseen waging war on another continent far away.
All culminating with thr shared ends of both books.
Well, think I'm crazy if you'd like. I think its an excellent idea. Perhaps the two of them could write a book together encompassing both styles. ICE seems to have a knack for battle scenes. SE for brilliant flowing lines of pure amazing character building and storytelling.

This post has been edited by Brujah: 14 April 2012 - 11:28 PM

[Talco]

Brujah, on 14 April 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

I love SE, don't get me wrong, but I get sick of reading 100 straight pages of his inner monologue on everything sometimes. I just want to see some action.
iCE is just blatant, he gives the the story through character actions and dialogue, no metaphysical observations like Se is prone to do and do and sometimes overdue.
The real bonus to reading thr ICE books along with the SE books is getting to alter the reading style which keeps it fresh. It's freakishly genius.
ICE did a great job with his own chars. jumpy and the lot are fantastic. I could see them sitting around with hedge and fid and the best of them.

Yup, I agree with you. SE's style started to growing old on me during the last few books, I got tired of his characters pontificating on the philosophical themes of life all the time, I liked it in moderation, but after a while it started to strain on me. ICE felt a little more strait forward, while still maintaining overall style of Erickson. Honestly, RotCG felt like an Erickson novel that was more strait-forwardly written but with less interesting charcters. I would probably rank it in the middle of the Malazan books if I had too.

[Abberon]

ICE is much better at writing action. His battle and fighting scenes are much stronger in my opinion. He is not, in my opinion, a superior writer, because I don't think NoK or RotCG would have been nearly as strong without the first 5 books or so of MBotF to support them. He's not as artistic a writer, but he's shown far better pacing in my opinion and much tighter editing.

[Fist Gamet]

thoroughly enjoying my re-read of TCG. What strikes me this time around is how well ICE introduced and developed some memorable characters. Storo, Rillish, Silk, Rell and Nait in particular were well done. Sure, he missed the chance to give us some truly terrific characters from the Empire's colourful history, but the overall story, though perhaps overambitious, is great fun.

The portrayal of the CG was, for me, spot on. I felt it was right that they were truly trapped in the past and unable to change or develop because this was the great curse of their vow (mirrored in the way the people of Quon had either forgotten them or plain did not want them back).

Such a shame OST did not live up to this...