[Rhand]

I've checked most of the topics until page 5 which seemed to cover FA-stuff, but I didn't read anything to solve this mystery for me.

If I remember correctly, FA used to be imprisoned beneath wards and big stones like Calm and that FA in Lether because they were too powerful to destroy. It has been a while since I read HoC but I think it was mentioned even Icarium couldn't kill Calm so he helped imprison her. Yet, at the end of tCG they fall like flies and the only ones who had difficulties facing them were the 6 TI from the CG.

Seems a bit inconsistent to me, or am I wrong?

[HoosierDaddy]

Icarium in a rage probably could have. If you remember, he was sane enough to know what he was doing in protecting the Toblakai bloodlines and to write down the passage. It's possible he hadn't wounded that Azath yet to make him crazy-powerhouse of chaos rage when he imprisoned Calm.

So, two possible interpretations of that.

As for the other "Pures," I think it could be argued they all fell to powerhouses as well.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Also Calm was imprisoned,instead of killed, so that the T'lann Imass could feed on her power.

[Abyss]

Calm was being drained by the Imass, and Serenity, i believe, had been locked up by humans, which was probably the best they could do. In TCG, none of them died easy.... Iirc, Hood took out two by eating their heads or beating the crap out of them, Brys name-dropped one, Badalle called on the frikkin dead FA god to take out another, Kalam and QB together took one, the Rock-faces and Gall all died to take one out, and Ublala dragon-bone mace smashed Calm after Mappo softened her up slightly. I may have missed one or two, but all of those took some major effort to make happen.

[Lisheo]

Rhand, on 18 July 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

I've checked most of the topics until page 5 which seemed to cover FA-stuff, but I didn't read anything to solve this mystery for me.

If I remember correctly, FA used to be imprisoned beneath wards and big stones like Calm and that FA in Lether because they were too powerful to destroy. It has been a while since I read HoC but I think it was mentioned even Icarium couldn't kill Calm so he helped imprison her. Yet, at the end of tCG they fall like flies and the only ones who had difficulties facing them were the 6 TI from the CG.

Seems a bit inconsistent to me, or am I wrong?

Eh. Arguably the people the FA were up against were the most powerful beings of the age, who had shown no quarter when dealing with a variety of other ancients throughout the series.
The world had changed and sheer brute power was no longer top dog.
Though, it is still pretty amazingly badass, lol.

[tiam]

Alot of the FA were surprised aswell. If they were full on fighting rather been dropped then it would have been more difficult. Theres a similar moment with the CGRD and the Primogenatrix or whatever he was called. The feasting on the power for Tellan is probably the main reason.

[worry]

I agree with all the explanations, but I also wish there would have been a scene or two more of an FA wreaking absolute havoc with humans, if only for the contrast and a reminder of their prowess.

[tiam]

Agreed. I understand the FA fulfilled the role SE wanted to them tofill such as with Brys unleashing his gods and Hood being the greatest thing in all literature. But I think a Serenity style destruction of 3 skilled soldiers is the best example of prowess weve seen. This is similar to the hounds of shadow killing 219 cavalrymen without taking a hit in the earlier seasons yet dealt with by fairly mundane methods later on.

Essentially the FA need a good scene, like the bone stairs

[Daemonwolf]

I always had the feeling that what set FA apart in combat was pretty much just the fluidity they possesed stemming from the extra joins, that gave them more control of their movements. Which makes them seem really badass in a fight unless you understand their fighting style. At which point they aren't any more difficult to kill than anyone else really.

just my two cents...

[worry]

That's only part of it though. They can deal death, it seems, with the relative equivalent effort we use to push an elevator button.

[Sinisdar Toste]

worrywort, on 18 July 2011 - 10:22 PM, said:

That's only part of it though. They can deal death, it seems, with the relative equivalent effort we use to push an elevator button.

indeed, their fighting style, combined with their potential for fatal strikes would make it incredibly difficult to kill them without having the element of surprise. even then, as we see with the Unbound, they'll still tear your shit up. luckily for Brys, QB-Kalam, and Badalle they never had to actually fight the FA, just surprise and overwhelm them. Ublala gets a pass for wielding a dragon-smashing mace.

someone ought to do a picture of ublala beaning calm with the caption "Dragon-smashing mace OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE!"

edit: forgot that kalam did trade a few blows with one of them, and nearly died, saved only by the wolves champion. i think the point still stands.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 18 July 2011 - 10:35 PM

[Daemonwolf]

the malazan wiki states

Quote

The Forkrul Assail were humanoid, although taller and thinner than humans, possess more joints in their limbs and hands, a jointed sternum, large, solid black eyes and blue blood rather than red. They were physically far more robust than humans, and appeared to be virtually un-killable through conventional means, healing from cuts and blows extremely quickly. They also possessed incredible strength, speed and agility, and were able to successfully combat several powerful opponents at once while sustaining only minor wounds. In addition, they had preternatural longevity and could live for millennia without food or water.

I've really got to get the time to finish re-reading it all again. With that in mind, I now see where the question comes from on their seemingly simple deaths. I guess the only real saving grace argument to be made would be the "appeared to be virtually unkillable through CONVENTIONAL means." Far as I remember (though I'm a little hazy) none of them really died to 'conventional' means. An otataral long knife and another long knife going through both hearts, of an arrogant FA, isnt really conventional. Same could be said Hood biting the face off of an unawares FA then breaking it in half, or Hood bludgeoning another one to death, with its own body no less. Another had the name of his god shoved down his throat per se....


just my two cents...

[worry]

How many cents do you have???

Anyway, I don't really have any problem with what happened to them. It all makes sense to me. I just don't like what didn't happen to them; in other words, I'd like to have seen them more in action and I'd like to have seen some of their wins before the tide turned and the sides evened out. We can infer plenty, and I don't think they were nerfed, but I do think too much was left off screen or left to memorable scenes from the earlier books.

[Daemonwolf]

@worrywort - using pennies I found in the walmart parking lot....

On topic - fully understandable, we never did get to hear about the FA badassery in much detail. Oh well, the series was epic none the less.

Just my two cents...

[Bauchelain the Evil]

worrywort, on 18 July 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

How many cents do you have???

Anyway, I don't really have any problem with what happened to them. It all makes sense to me. I just don't like what didn't happen to them; in other words, I'd like to have seen them more in action and I'd like to have seen some of their wins before the tide turned and the sides evened out. We can infer plenty, and I don't think they were nerfed, but I do think too much was left off screen or left to memorable scenes from the earlier books.

Well, both Calm and that other FA tore through T'lann Imass as if they weren't even there and Calm killed Mappo, a guy who broke Dejim Nebrahl's necks as if they were twigs and survived a near fatal fall, with one hit.

[worry]

Yah, I was thinking about Mappo too even when I made that post, but I think that stuff comes at the end of the book...and Calm is one of the last to go out. I'm trying not veer too far towards blurting out big ideas that amount to fan fiction, or being a serial complainer; I'm just saying since we did get FA POVs, and since they weren't mysterious wraiths in the distance, we could have got some early scenes of their physical prowess as a neat reminder and the good kind of fan service (which SE mostly excelled at in this book). I still think it makes sense what happened, in terms of them relying way too much on their oncoming Warren and their simple arrogance blinding them, but for what went missing I'd give these guys like a B as baddies instead of the A+ they coulda turned out.

[Ulrik]

Well, IMO SE counts on earlier books - Calm vs three Teblors, MT - iirc FA vs two demon princes? But yeah, one part FA ripping through Grey Helms would be sexy...or Letherii...but not Barghast, I wouldnt like that...

[tiam]

I think a really good fight scene showing the capabilities of the FA in both healing and fighting is necessary now. They sort of fall foul of the main characters 'special moves' as someone put it a while back like Brys and Paran. A good FA battle would be good with them jumping and fighting dragons or something. Weve seen every other race take names bar the FA

[Abyss]

Arguably one of the few flaws in the series is that the FA as primary antagonists only really appear in the dead last book.

Calm and Serenity of course appear earlier, basically as random encounters for other characters, and from TB on we have a sense that Tavore is moving the Bonehunters towards something specific, but ultimately they are absent from the book up until the end and it limits their effectiveness somewhat, especially since the CG, the dude it turns out the 14th was going to rescue, was the primary antagonist for more or less every other book. And of course, when we finally see the FA in detail in TCG, they are underdevelopped and at points verge on caricature... "Kill them all."

As a historical element re-emerging, they do work and in the context of the bigger themes of the books their role makes sense, but we could have done with a wee bit more to make some of the best parts of TCG a bit better.

That said, none of them went out easy and we saw pretty clearly how badass they can be.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 19 July 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

Arguably one of the few flaws in the series is that the FA as primary antagonists only really appear in the dead last book.

Calm and Serenity of course appear earlier, basically as random encounters for other characters, and from TB on we have a sense that Tavore is moving the Bonehunters towards something specific, but ultimately they are absent from the book up until the end and it limits their effectiveness somewhat, especially since the CG, the dude it turns out the 14th was going to rescue, was the primary antagonist for more or less every other book. And of course, when we finally see the FA in detail in TCG, they are underdevelopped and at points verge on caricature... "Kill them all."

As a historical element re-emerging, they do work and in the context of the bigger themes of the books their role makes sense, but we could have done with a wee bit more to make some of the best parts of TCG a bit better.

That said, none of them went out easy and we saw pretty clearly how badass they can be.

There's 2 on Blind Gallan's road in DoD, too, but they seem like random encounters at the time, too.