[champ]

QuickTidal, on 07 September 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 September 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

oookay, i was looking for a specific line but you did say it was a paragraph or something, and yeah, that was pretty fucked up.

The way Butcher set up that revelation (the idiot being in command at the port and what that implied) and the impact on especially Varg was VERY impressive, especially in the context of everything we've learned about the Canim by them: that there were five more nations of them Alera knew nothing about, each more populated than Alera, point being if the Canim had ever been serious about wiping the Alerans, it would have been game over. And now the Vord had wiped out the Canim...

Indeed, and he spends the first 15 chapters telling us if the Canim have a badass, unforgiving, elite warrior sect...it's the Shuar....so when that revelation dropped on me...it cleaned out my brain with a scoop.

So good.

I actually had to pause and take a breath at that scene just so it would sink in... it was a wonderful fuckme moment!

Abyss, on 07 September 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

In some ways, Butcher is even more adept at steadily raising the tension level in this series than he is in Dresden.

And that is why Butcher rocks... He does it with Dresden and he does it with Alera. The constant feeling for the main characters of... "Crap! How the hell are they going to get out of this, must turn page!"

... Yes, in Butcher we trust!

[Abyss]

Book 6... 200ish pages in... there are moments in these books where i picture Butcher sitting at his computer, suddenly jumping up, fist pumping and shouting BEST IDEA EVER! I RULE! at the top of his lungs.
The Ice Ship Armada is one of those moments. Aquitaine dominating a ring of house-size feral furies is another.

Fuck me this is good reading.

[Tsundoku]

Cocoreturns, on 07 September 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

Pig Iron, on 07 September 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:

The vord = zerg is not commented upon much. They even have creep! One of Butchers many strengths is how he borrows like crazy and does it better.

Ahem.

you mean vord = tyranid.

and let the back and forth begin.....

Uh huh, and tyranid = more complicated genestealer society, so as to escape IP infringement accusations of

Genestealer = Ridley Scott's Alien.

So there.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 20 September 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Book 6... 200ish pages in... there are moments in these books where i picture Butcher sitting at his computer, suddenly jumping up, fist pumping and shouting BEST IDEA EVER! I RULE! at the top of his lungs.
The Ice Ship Armada is one of those moments. Aquitaine dominating a ring of house-size feral furies is another.

Fuck me this is good reading.

Indeed, two of the best things about Book 6 indeed. I'm glad you finally have found out that ALERA sometimes gives DRESDEN a run for its money, by showing a completely different set of writing skills by Butcher. I love ALERA.

[Abyss]

Sombra, on 20 September 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Cocoreturns, on 07 September 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

Pig Iron, on 07 September 2011 - 04:38 PM, said:

The vord = zerg is not commented upon much. They even have creep! One of Butchers many strengths is how he borrows like crazy and does it better.

Ahem.

you mean vord = tyranid.

and let the back and forth begin.....

Uh huh, and tyranid = more complicated genestealer society, so as to escape IP infringement accusations of

Genestealer = Ridley Scott's Alien.

So there.

You're both wrong. The Vord are obviously Star Trek's Borg, with more lizard-bug greenslime. And they eat you instead of assimilating you, but that's a minor detail.

[Abyss]

P400ish...

SPOILERS

SPOILERS MAJOR Bk 6 SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Invidia gutting Aquitaine = Awesome.

Aquitaine taking the opportunity to serve her with divorce papers = AWESOME BASTED IN AWESOMESAUCE!!!


Sometimes i think Butcher has more fun than he has any right to.

[Abyss]

500ish...

MAJOR DEATH

SPOILERS

BELOW HERE

...in the stretch now and tension is amping up nicely... it's not like i believe that Tavi or Kitai are in actual jeapordy, but i have to hand it to Butcher, by killing Ehren and Foss when he did, AND crippling Crassus, he pretty much ensured that every other character in the book is under serious deathwatch going into the final confrontation with the Queen.

And by now i'm so wound up with Amara and Bernard, Isana and Araris, Fidelias, Varg and various other Alerans and even the various High Lords/Ladies (ffs Lady Placida is awesome) that ANY deaths are going to impact hard.


Unrelatedly, having Kitai turn out to be almost as strong as Tavi with furies and in some ways better that him was lol funny and a nice solution to the whole Aleran power/genetics problem. Not that it matters.

Tavi taking out the Riva gate was AWESOME.

Oh of COURSE Invidia is making a double-cross play. OF COURSE she is.

Amara to Riva - "He told you so.". HA! I so love the fact that Bernard used the threat of the Vord to militarize Calderon, convieniently being ready in case Tavi needed a base to challenge Aquitaine.

Also really like how Amara has advanced to the point that Knight and High Peeps basically treat her like a High Lady. I did not like her much in bk 1 or even 2 but the character has seriously grown on me.

Similarly, Isana's mindfuck games on Invidia and the Queen are great reading.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 23 September 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

ffs Lady Placida is awesome

Glowing, flaming bird fury of death and awesomeness FTW.

[Abyss]

625ish...

re Ehren... ok, hah ha, you got me. Bummer about Phrygius and Antillus tho. To be expected, but even so, ouch.

I so want to read an entire book of nothing but Doroga making wry comments while Walker crushes things.

Aleran Legionnaires riding Canim troops... it's so silly it's perfect.

[Abyss]

aaaaaaand DONE.


Oh damn that was good. So very very good.

SPOILERS FOR FINALE OF BOOK SIX IN CASE YOU MISSED IT

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


The second Invidia starts the ambush, the last 150 pages of this book kick into overdrive and do. not. stop.

The High Lord attack on the Queen is obviously doomed to failure, but such a complete treat to read. Possibly one of the best bits of action Butcher has written.

Invidia's betrayal and the 'oopsie' that followed was just perfect. OF COURSE the borg Vord Queen was onto her.

Aria didn't die! Yay!

Amara taking out Invida was absolutely per.fect. Exactly the right end for the relationship between those two and a nice moment of awesome for Amara.

Araris, you magnificent bastard! HUGE crowning moment of awesome metal skin furycrafting there, even if the Queen still kicked your ass

Isana's whirlpool sheild thing vs the mantis' wasn't quite as impressive. Frankly her moments of awesome came in the ocean in bk 4 and the snow in bk 5, but even so it was fun to read.

Fidelias/Marcus leading the Legions was well done. Have to give Butcher credit, this character came a long long way. I especially liked how he used the Canim ritualists and the Windwolves when the opportunity was there.

Ehren and Bernard... Bernard's 'sploding arrow was awesome. Having Ehren there was a bit forced... like Butcher didn't know what else to do with the character. Those two had interacted almost not at all through the book, so having them side by side sort of watered down the impact. Similarly, Cereus' sacrifice, while a nice touch, was fairly predictable and limited by the fact we hardly knew the character.


Which brings us to Tavi and Kitai vs the Vord Queen. And HOLY DRAGONFUCKNUTS this was just awesome. in particular i have to give Butcher credit for writing an extended fight scene that involved flight, fireballs, exploding salt arrows and two monster Furies, and somehow making it all clear, effective, and pure high-adrenaline awesome, without losing some neat touched like having Tavi note that he's spent his whole life fighting people bigger and stronger than him. One might argue that having Alera give Tavi the key to victory was a bit deus ex, but she was 'his' Fury since bk 5 and his legacy from Sextus, so it works. Having them fighting on Garadas' body (God of War II, anyone?), and having Thana actually strike out at the Queen were both nice touches - in particular having the two great furies as part of the finale was well done, harking back all the way to the start of the series.

And Kitai as usual gets all the best lines.


All in all, a terriffic series and totally worth the read. I wish the first book had been better, but what came after made it more than worthwhile.

Good reco, people. Tnx.


- Abyss, satisfied customer.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 27 September 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

And Kitai as usual gets all the best lines.

In fact her's is the last line of dialogue and it's a zinger. Love it.

Yeah, probably one of my fave all time completed series.

what did you think of Crassus' arc end? That one was really rough on Tavi methinks, but I like that he doesn't come out totally unscathed by his command decisions in the end.

Bring on the 500 years later / Steampunky Alera book series that Butcher said he wants to do! WooHoo!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 27 September 2011 - 06:00 PM

[Abyss]

I found Crassus' arc with the 'you didn't tell me my mommy lived waaaah' angle was fairly ham-fisted. As if it was all Butcher could come up with to show the buden of command, other than a few tens of thousands of troops dying, of course. Not a big deal but not one of the books' stronger points. I did enjoy Crassus and Max's evolving relationship, and Crassus was otherwise an interesting supporting character.

When all was said and done the casualty list of actual involved characters was fairly short for the whole series...
- Invidia is the obvious one, but she was always more on the dark side and her death was more Amara's moment than anything.
- Sextus was guaranteed to die and did go out with a bang, but not a surprise.
- Attis Aquitaine, who was nicely complex but was always clearely going to be opposing Tavi;
- Rook, barely a supporting character;
- Kalare sr and jr, both more or less archtypical bad guys;
- Phrygius, whom we never really got to know beyond as a foil for Antillus, and
- Foss.

Otherwise it was a whole lot of redshirts and Sir-Not-Appearing-in-this-movie.

If Butcher wrote that sequel series it would go straight to my 'pre-order in hb' list. 500yrs + would move past the expected 'Vord War' dealing with the Queen on Cane tho'.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 27 September 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

If Butcher wrote that sequel series it would go straight to my 'pre-order in hb' list. 500yrs + would move past the expected 'Vord War' dealing with the Queen on Cane tho'.

I have actually heard tell that down the road he might finally get around to writing a sci-fi novel and there were winks and nods that we might see the space-bound origin to of the Vord.

[Abyss]

That would be cool. Space opera would be his logical next effort, and the Vord Queen does go on about eating worlds more than once.

[D'rek]

I finished the series this week, and this seems as good a place as any to post spoiley comments. Overall, I was very pleased, lots of great &^$%! moments throughout the series and the pacing is mostly quite good. Books 3 and 4 were definitely the peak of the series for me, I think mostly because the characters seemed to be far more in over their heads in those two. By books 5 and 6, there's not a whole lot more personal revelations forthcoming (yeah there's the Canim extinction revelation, but it doesn't touch the Aleran plot(s) a whole lot since Tavi's people go back to Alera and the Canea-vord aren't seen again), where as 3 and 4 have the big ones like learning Tavi's identity and then him revealing it to the world along with bigger subterfuges and volcanoes. 5 and 6 seemed like almost just a follow-through from what had been setup in 2-4, but it was still a really great follow-through.

I do wish the Vord had been more dynamic in 5/6, though - my favourite part of them in book 2 was how they kept coming up with something new (spiders >> croach >> giant lobster bugs >> takers >> Taken >> oh shit furycrafting Taken >> queen >> MINDREADING QUEEN), so it would've been nice to see more than just endless hordes of mantisses and vordknights, salted with a couple oliphants.

Agreed with most everybody above on all the things.

I really liked the Fidelias/Marcus character-line. Introducing them completely seperately, then revealing them to be the same was great, and I think Butcher really nailed it with how he wrote him. Once you get into his head in book 3 onwards, he's written very much as the solid Marcus, and when he "becomes" Fidelias again in book 6 there's a very subtle change in how his PoVs are written that I felt really gave the impression of a difference between the two personalities, but still showing Fidelias as being capable of "being" Marcus when he wants to.

Space vord novel would be awesome. And would be even more Zerg

[HoosierDaddy]

Tavi doing his "Maximus" speech while Mt. Kalarus blows up in the background is made to be a movie scene.

[D'rek]

HoosierDaddy, on 19 March 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

Tavi doing his "Maximus" speech while Mt. Kalarus blows up in the background is made to be a movie scene.

That was my favourite part of the whole series. Just love the way Crassus and the other soldiers' reactions are written.

[Macros]

I finished up the series a while back, being me I didn't connect to the idea of there being a dedicated thread in the butcher forum. (all i ever see on the listing is Dresden crack, which i keep meaning to try btw)

its always nice to start into a series and know that you can finish it in one run if you enjoy it.
i think it helped a lot for this series, if I had had to sit it out waiting for books 5&6 I doubt I would have enjoyed them as much.

as it was, I took the series as a solid read, nothing earth shattering, but entertaining.

I feel the grand finale suffered quite a bit from redshirts and barely introduced. One notable death in my head was the oliphants death, I felt the second he took off that he had solely been given page time to try and give us at least one truely heroic, meaningful death.
I know that for Tavi's progression to work the enemies logically have to be 6>5>4>3>2>1 but its still an irritant for me when reading a series ( you hear that feist???) it got to the stage where even though the odds were incomprehensible by book six, I was never concerned because all he does is trump the bookie, needa break his heart en route for it to be a real kicker by his sixth win.
but, quick, readable with likeable characters, some really pithy dialogue and a few awesome moments.

just one thing.
that whole nonsense with the queen wounding him and running away, really poorly handled, she was him on a plate, cut his fucking heart out.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 20 March 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

...just one thing.
that whole nonsense with the queen wounding him and running away, really poorly handled, she was him on a plate, cut his fucking heart out.

Doesn't Kitai drop the wrath on her right at that moment?

[Macros]

I'll have to check, but the fact that the queen is able to nail him with some kind of poisoned stab in the chest/stomch/nuts i forget precise body part, then flee virtually unscathed and kitai is only able to get dorotea functional (actually a good part, showing kitai as the much stronger of the couple emotionally, as I'd always considered) after read entirely too me like a pointlessness. I'll get my reader out but I really do recall thinking "well this is horseshit, she should have gutted him"