[Kanese S's]

Is it ever mentioned where exactly Avore, the place that K'azz is from, is? I assume it's on Quon Tali or around there somewhere, but I have been unable to locate it on the map.

Maybe my eyes are just going over it and missing it?

Is there anywhere in the book, or in MBotF (which I've read all of) that says where exactly it is?

Sorry if this has been asked before.

[HoosierDaddy]

It was wiped out by Kellenved pulling a mountain down on it. No longer a place and you won't find it on a map. It was on Quon Tali, though.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 11 July 2011 - 05:43 AM

[Kanese S's]

Right, I do recall that, but thought that maybe I was just missing it some how.

[MTS]

We don't really have any definitive idea of where it is. There are some clues though:

Kazz said:

‘Yes. I’m of Gris. Was shipwrecked here years ago.’

Iron Bars said:

‘I’ve a great-granddaughter back in Gris, D’Avore Valley. She’d be about your age now. Let’s go, lass.’

I don't think Kellanved bringing down the earthquake destroyed Avore. We're told this in ROTCG:

ROTCG said:

‘Eventually, after decades, the last of their ancestral holds, the D’Avore family fastness in the Fenn Mountains, fell. The Citadel, it was called. Kellanved brought it down with an earthquake. He killed thousands of his own men.’

That interpretation is supported by Skinner saying this:

Skinner said:

‘Avore has been wiped from the map! There is no more such entity. Kellanved was quite thorough.’

The mention of Kellanved implies a connection between the two, suggesting Avore's location as the Citadel, but the name Avore is never mentioned, and Kellanved likely had participated in military campaigns against the Guard before. Couple that with the fact that the Citadel was the last of their ancestral holdings (suggesting multiple holdings) and that the Guard resisted the Malazans all across Quon Tali, even as far away as Dal Hon, and it becomes clear that the Citadel was merely the last sanctuary the Guard had on Quon Tali, not necessarily Avore itself. As nobles the D'Avores likely owned mansions and fortresses all over Quon Tali (Rillish's family owned at least two estates in the Gris-Haljhen region for instance), so it seems more likely Avore was a family holdfast close to Gris. If you'll notice, Gris is nowhere near the Fenn Mountains, and K'azz and Iron Bars both mention being from Gris (Corlo also admits to being from Avore).

 Quon Tali map.jpg (49.03K)
Number of downloads: 2

Sorry about the terrible paint-fu.

EDIT - fixed terrible syntax

This post has been edited by MTS: 11 July 2011 - 08:42 AM

[Kanese S's]

MTS, you're awesome.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i always considered d'avore lands to be near d'avig lands. not sure if them having similar names means they're close, but in RotCG, that duke of d'avig is supposed to have been related to someone in the crimson guard, iirc. d'avig is close enough to gris for lots of the crimson guardsmen to be from there and still have their leaders homeland near to it. i'm going to go ahead and place avore near those hills/mountains that sit on the coast of the falari sea, and that is now canon for me unless SE or ICE says otherwise.

[MTS]

Sinisdar Toste, on 12 July 2011 - 02:51 AM, said:

i always considered d'avore lands to be near d'avig lands. not sure if them having similar names means they're close, but in RotCG, that duke of d'avig is supposed to have been related to someone in the crimson guard, iirc. d'avig is close enough to gris for lots of the crimson guardsmen to be from there and still have their leaders homeland near to it. i'm going to go ahead and place avore near those hills/mountains that sit on the coast of the falari sea, and that is now canon for me unless SE or ICE says otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken, that relation wasn't a D'Avig, but a D'Shil. The point still stands though. We meet a D'Avig though I think, when the Wickans roll through there. The D'Avig's are from Unta though. What's interesting is the ethnic make-up of the Avowed though. Blues, Shimmer and Black the Lesser are Napan, Shijel is Kartooli, Keitil is Wickan, Mara is Dal Honese etc. So I wonder when the actual Vow was formed. After Avore was lost, certainly, but after the Citadel?

[D'rek]

MTS, on 12 July 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 12 July 2011 - 02:51 AM, said:

i always considered d'avore lands to be near d'avig lands. not sure if them having similar names means they're close, but in RotCG, that duke of d'avig is supposed to have been related to someone in the crimson guard, iirc. d'avig is close enough to gris for lots of the crimson guardsmen to be from there and still have their leaders homeland near to it. i'm going to go ahead and place avore near those hills/mountains that sit on the coast of the falari sea, and that is now canon for me unless SE or ICE says otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken, that relation wasn't a D'Avig, but a D'Shil. The point still stands though. We meet a D'Avig though I think, when the Wickans roll through there. The D'Avig's are from Unta though. What's interesting is the ethnic make-up of the Avowed though. Blues, Shimmer and Black the Lesser are Napan, Shijel is Kartooli, Keitil is Wickan, Mara is Dal Honese etc. So I wonder when the actual Vow was formed. After Avore was lost, certainly, but after the Citadel?

I think just before the Citadel was smothered. The one-armed sapper from RotCG (I'm bad with names today) tells Kyle about swearing the oath at some point, that might be our best bet for a reference.

[Kanese S's]

You mean Stoop?

[tiam]

Stoop says something like 'you should have been there 600 men and women swearing against the empire' or something like that. I think it was just after or just before the Citadel fell. Ive just done a reread but at the beginning of the diaspora the Guard broke up so I can assume they all vanished to different continents to fight the Malazans on each continent and recruit. As for the composition of the Guard these were the last of Kazz troops so I assume these were just what he could recruit. We dont know the Davores didnt have a presence on Napan isle which they almost certainly did given the trading nature of these houses thats hinted at in ROTCG. They were likely Kellenveds most enduring enemy because of the vastness of their holdings meaning they have the most to lose.

As for Davore Valley yes it was wiped out you wont find it on the map as it would have a diffeent name but the Fenn mountain stronghold was the final holdings not necessarily the main holding of the Duke.