[Abyss]

acesn8s, on 20 June 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

...
Robert Asprin's
Thieves' World compilations (shared world)

Good one!

[Use Of Weapons]

acesn8s, on 20 June 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

Piers Anthony's
Incarnations of Immortality

Love these. Some of his best writing, really original concept, deftly executed. And mind-bending in places, especially the book about the incarnation of time, Chronos, who lives backwards.

_On A Pale Horse_ (Death), _Bearing An Hourglass_ (Time), _With A Tangled Skein_ (Fate), _Wielding A Red Sword_ (War), and _Being A Green Mother_ (Nature) comprise the original series. Anthony completed the series with two novels for the Devil and God, _For Love Of Evil_ and _And Eternity_, which IMO are slightly weaker than the originals, but the ending is satisfactorily epic.

acesn8s, on 20 June 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

If you can find them,

Fred Saberhagen's
The Book of Swords

Great fun. Very hard to find them all though.

[Salt-Man Z]

UseOfWeapons, on 20 June 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

acesn8s, on 20 June 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

Piers Anthony's
Incarnations of Immortality

Love these. Some of his best writing, really original concept, deftly executed. And mind-bending in places, especially the book about the incarnation of time, Chronos, who lives backwards.
_On A Pale Horse_ (Death), _Bearing An Hourglass_ (Time), _With A Tangled Skein_ (Fate), _Wielding A Red Sword_ (War), and _Being A Green Mother_ (Nature) comprise the original series. Anthony completed the series with two novels for the Devil and God, _For Love Of Evil_ and _And Eternity_, which IMO are slightly weaker than the originals, but the ending is satisfactorily epic.

There's an eighth book, written much later, called Under a Velvet Cloak that's supposed to be pretty terrible. Personally, I didn't like the Incarnations series much; it started with a decent premise, but then Piers ruins it with too many puns and silliness. Far better are his Apprentice Adept (sci-fi/fantasy hybrid) and Of Man and Manta (intriguing sci-fi) series. The sci-fi Cluster books are decent, too.

Actually, the first couple of Xanth books are pretty darn good "traditional" fantasy.

[worry]

I would put Robin Hobb a bit closer to GRRM than I would with traditional fantasy. She's somewhere in between, not as revolutionary perhaps, but she's definitely a unique voice and plays with fantasy themes in subtle, interesting ways. Her world-building is thick and rich, the first-person narrative of the Fitz books puts an interesting twist on the kid-gets-important trope, and she subverts it in other ways too. She also has one of the most interesting takes on dragons I've ever read, and the "convergence" at the end of the Liveship trilogy rivals SE for forethought and execution.

I do think Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn is a pretty awesome trad. fantasy series though. I liked the deliberate pace, and I think it went to some pretty dark places along the way.

For popcorn reading, I'll echo the Shannara and Belgariad/Malloreon books. They're both engaging and fast-paced for the most part, though it's true the Shannara series in particular has some weak spots (High Druid trilogy is pukey) and the Eddings stuff gets repetitive (for instance, every time the men start some bawdy talk, the women leave the room for propriety's sake -- happens so many times!). But they're both pretty actiony series, and Terry Brooks is, for such a traditionalist, surprisingly willing to kill off a lot of characters.

I don't have the fantasy breadth of a lot of folks here though, so this thread might be pretty helpful for me too.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 21 June 2011 - 02:49 AM

[King Bear]

Abyss, on 20 June 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

I thought the HEIRS quad was excellent.

It's definitely the strongest Shannara series. I did enjoy it.

Abyss, on 20 June 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

NOT a selling point for that series.

Yes, I can never understand why authors think magic rap is a good idea. It was silly when Tolkien did it, when Williams did it, when Moddesitt did it, and I'm sorry but it was silly when SE did it.

[D'rek]

Mentalist, on 19 June 2011 - 05:25 AM, said:

Future Warrior, on 18 June 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

My favourite "Tolkienesque" fantasies have been mentioned: Fiest's Riftwar books, the Death Gate Cycle, and The Wheel of Time.

I & most people think that the Riftwar series starts off awesome and chugs along nicely. Until it sharply goes downhill. The point when it goes downhill is a matter of interpretation. Depending on who you ask, it's after either book one, book 6 (the last book in the empire series), or book 11 (Rage of a Demon King). It's fine to end the series with any of these, since book one is self-contained, and book 6 ends a self-contained series, and book 11 pretty much ends another series. Book 12 ends that series properly, but is generally unnecessary and mostly awful.

The Wheel of Time is pretty damn awesome most of the time, but anyone getting into it should be warned that some books in the middle of the series seriously drag. The last few books have been brilliant however, and the stage is set for an incredible finale when book 14 arrives early next year. YES YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT IT'S 14 BOOKS LONG AND IT"S ALL ONE STORY!

The Death Gate Cycle is great from start to finish, but not quite as traditional as riftwar and WOT - mainly due to the inventive setting. As Abyss said it's much better than Dragonlance, a more famous series by the same authors.

Shannara is decent, but I'd never rave over it. Except for Elfstones of Shannara. I love Elfstones.

As others have said, Amber, Conan, Elric and Lankhmar are all excellent. Amber, although old, definitely a classic and highly recommended, isn't very traditional. I was pleasantly surprised how inventive and modern it felt, actually. The other three are in the sword and sorcery genre, which is a bit different from what Tolkien was doing.

If anyone recommends The Sword of Truth series to you, shoot them.

drunken post ends drunkenly klsjdfsljfsijfjdfsdf

edit: you said Memory Sorrow and Thorn had been recommended to you. That one is great too, forgot about that. Plus, it's three books and you're done.

I have read no Hobbs.

I'd argue that Death Gate ends rather weakly, and is realy nothing like Tolkien. that said, it was my first intro to fantasy (after the Hobbit), the first book i've read and enjoyed in English after coming to Canada was "the Hand of Chaos" (book 5), and throughtout the next few years i've hunted down and read all the books (in the following sequence: 5-3-6-2-4-7-1. Gotta love the public library system), followed by Darksword and dragonlance, so I will defend the goodness of death Gate cycle to the death.

(though really, there are some really GOOD things in Dragonlance. past the original trilogy, the Legends trilogy is several times better, and the follow up 4 volumes (Summer flame + the War of the Souls) really ramp up the "epic" feel, while getting far darker in nature. some of the associated authors are really good too, like Richard Knaak's stuff (Legend of Huma + anything and everything with Minotaurs), and some of the preludes novels are really decent, too.)


...okay, yeah I might be biased. I have one shelf in book case specifically for Dragonlance novels.

IMO, it is worth it to read 3-10 main Dragonlance books just so you can then read some of the Gnome short stories from the various anthologies because they are about as hilarious as Tehol and Bugg.

Abyss, on 20 June 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Future Warrior, on 20 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

But Elfstones is the best

No argument here. For its time, 'STONES was dark dark fantasy with a nicely original sideplot.

Quote

Sword of Shannara is an obvious and completely pointless LotRs clone, and a pretty weak book... Terry Brooks has admitted that he wrote it just to get published, and would strike the book from Shannara canon if it weren't for an anticipated fan backlash.

The other Shannara books are all fine though, more or less. Although I was disappointed by the high druid trilogy. I haven't read the genesis books, but have heard good things.

SWORD is... cute.... i suppose. It's actually kind of shocking how simple it is compared to STONES but it does complete the story.

I thought the HEIRS quad was excellent.

Overall most of the Shannara books are good. However, they have the problem that most of them follow very similar plots or have characters that are copy & pasted from previous books' characters. Many of the Elfstone-capable half-elf-half-halfing protaganists are interchangeable - Shea=Wil=Par=Bek, Flick=Coll, Walker eventually becomes a copy of Allanon, etc. So too much Shannara might be bad. Starting with STONES, as recommended above, is good, then go on to WISHSONG, then the SCIONS quadrilogy and finish it off with the JERLE SHANNARA (which is awesome at takes a completely different route and tome from the rest of Shannara, but I don't want to spoil anything). But I wouldn't recommend the HIGH DRUID trilogy that comes after that, as it is just more of the same stuff and by that point won't be all that interesting.

[Abyss]

D, on 21 June 2011 - 03:37 AM, said:

...
Overall most of the Shannara books are good. However, they have the problem that most of them follow very similar plots or have characters that are copy & pasted from previous books' characters. Many of the Elfstone-capable half-elf-half-halfing protaganists are interchangeable - Shea=Wil=Par=Bek, Flick=Coll, Walker eventually becomes a copy of Allanon, etc. So too much Shannara might be bad.

Yes and no. I'd argue that this is actually one of the series' stengths, in that the characters are instantly familiar by way of very deliberate links (family, teacher/student) to earlier books.

That said, STONES bears little resemblance to SWORD, and SONG has some original elements to it with new magic. HEISR is a quad and starts with similar characters but does take them to some different directions. Later books are less original. Put it this way... i wouldn't recommend trying to read the entire series back to back, but spread out with breaks, it's a lot of fun.

Quote

Starting with STONES, as recommended above, is good, then go on to WISHSONG, then the SCIONS quadrilogy and finish it off with the JERLE SHANNARA (which is awesome at takes a completely different route and tome from the rest of Shannara, but I don't want to spoil anything). But I wouldn't recommend the HIGH DRUID trilogy that comes after that, as it is just more of the same stuff and by that point won't be all that interesting.

I haven't read anything after JERLE but i agree with everything up to there.

[Use Of Weapons]

Future Warrior, on 21 June 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

Yes, I can never understand why authors think magic rap is a good idea.

You don't get why writers, who write words, and think words are important, and take a great deal of care over the words they choose, ever think, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if words had power, and made things happen?" You don't get that?

[CircleBinder]

Awesome suggestions all! I have researched many of these series' and most seem to be exactly what I was looking for.

One thing I feel that I should clarify is that the fault of unoriginality among works of traditional fantasy would be lost on me. Indeed, I have read much more modern, "gritty" fantasy than classic fantasy. So for example, I would probably take less umbrage with "inspiration from Tolkien" in works like SWORD OF SHANNARA or MEMORY, SORROW, AND THORN than many of you much more experienced fantasy readers.

What is most important to me is that the series:
1. is well written
2. has cool/enjoyable/memorable characters
3. has an interesting and well described world

**Regarding plots: I can enjoy a wide range of types of stories as long as the above criteria are met. I appreciate slow/fast pacing, linear/nonlinear story arcs, and continuing/self contained stories all in kind as long as the actual reading is fun.

So with that disclaimer, please continue this entertaining and educating topic.

[Tuberski]

acesn8s, on 20 June 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

So I've noticed a few people mention the Shannara series as a Tolkien clone. I'd suggested that it is influenced by Tolkien. If you want a Tolkien clone, read Dennis L. McKiernan's The Iron Tower series (or maybe you shouldn't).

I enjoyed it 20 years ago. It does have halflings that aren't just baggage. Plus, the Silver call duology is a nice "taking back the mines of Moria" story. The "Hel's Crucible duology isn't bad either.

[QuickTidal]

UseOfWeapons, on 21 June 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

Future Warrior, on 21 June 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

Yes, I can never understand why authors think magic rap is a good idea.

You don't get why writers, who write words, and think words are important, and take a great deal of care over the words they choose, ever think, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if words had power, and made things happen?" You don't get that?

Sorry dude. Magic rap. Bad idea jeans. End of Story.

[Use Of Weapons]

King Kazma, on 22 July 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

UseOfWeapons, on 21 June 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

You don't get why writers, who write words, and think words are important, and take a great deal of care over the words they choose, ever think, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if words had power, and made things happen?" You don't get that?

Sorry dude. Magic rap. Bad idea jeans. End of Story.

You fail to understand my point, which was not arguing that magic rap battles were a good idea, but was instead explaining why authors think they are a good idea.

[QuickTidal]

UseOfWeapons, on 23 July 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

King Kazma, on 22 July 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

UseOfWeapons, on 21 June 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

You don't get why writers, who write words, and think words are important, and take a great deal of care over the words they choose, ever think, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if words had power, and made things happen?" You don't get that?

Sorry dude. Magic rap. Bad idea jeans. End of Story.

You fail to understand my point, which was not arguing that magic rap battles were a good idea, but was instead explaining why authors think they are a good idea.

UseOfWeapons...I fully understood your point, my comment was meant as a joke...achievement unlocked: sense of humour?

Wowzers. lol

[waydoug]

I've read Brooks' Stones first then Sword then Wishsong. Stones was the best. Haven't read anything past Voyage of Jerle series, yet, with Brooks it comes and goes, you need a break in between each series. Read most of Guy Gavriels stuff, and sorry to say I did not like Fionavar series. Loved every other book though, just not those 3. Dragonlance was good stuff, I read a lot of the short story anthologies that ran with them. I've made it to book 4 of the Wheel of Time seies and can't say if I'll ever pick up another. I had listed to David Drake's first book (Lord of the Isles?) on cassette before I picked up the books and read them. I found them confusing, traveling all over parallel places and weird areas. Made it to book 4 there too, and again don't think I'll pick up another.

[Use Of Weapons]

King Kazma, on 23 July 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

UseOfWeapons...I fully understood your point, my comment was meant as a joke...achievement unlocked: sense of humour?

Oh, right. My mistake, I had been under the impression that jokes were meant to be funny. Clearly this was in error. Thanks for correcting my erroneous impression. I'll try to do better in future.

[Tapper]

I haven't seen Jack Vance's Lyonesse being mentioned in my quick browse, and I wonder why? It is in many ways a mass of interconnecting stories written in the style of an archaic fairy tale, but the themes of good, bad, power, love, adventure, war, politics and magic are all there, sometimes innocently and Hobbit-like, sometimes quite adult.

[Werthead]

Jack Vance's Lyonesse Trilogy should satisfy the original requirements quite easily. It's traditional (there are quests, battles and so on) but with Vance's trademark rich prose and hilariously formal dialogue that makes it a pleasure to read. Very traditional without being derivative of anything earlier in the genre.

Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is decent, but s-l-o-w. The final book in the series is longer than THE LORD OF THE RINGS in its entirety, but still a good read if you can take the slow pace.

If you've already read Martin and Erikson, I wouldn't bother with Brooks, Eddings or Weis & Hickman, since I think they are best experienced when young or as gateways books into fantasy. They are very, very lightweight in comparison to the more modern fantasy authors, but still acceptable lightweight popcorn reads. The first 9 or so RA Salvatore Drizzt books I think are in the same vein and his first book, THE CRYSTAL SHARD, is to me a solid traditional-but-different fantasy story. As his first novel the writing is often wince-inducing, but it has spirit and enthusiasm, which was later leeched out of him when he was told he had to write Drizzt novels until the day he died (between the 9th and 10th books in the series; the 9th is okay, the 10th and most of the subsequent books are unreadable).

However, I think overall I have to agree that if you want a traditional epic fantasy, the Wheel of Time sequence is probably your best bet.

[QuickTidal]

UseOfWeapons, on 25 July 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

King Kazma, on 23 July 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

UseOfWeapons...I fully understood your point, my comment was meant as a joke...achievement unlocked: sense of humour?

Oh, right. My mistake, I had been under the impression that jokes were meant to be funny. Clearly this was in error. Thanks for correcting my erroneous impression. I'll try to do better in future.

See that you do.

[Use Of Weapons]

King Kazma, on 25 July 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

See that you do.

*hysterically nervous laughter that trails off into a titter, yea, a titter*

How's that?

[QuickTidal]

UseOfWeapons, on 25 July 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

King Kazma, on 25 July 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

See that you do.

*hysterically nervous laughter that trails off into a titter, yea, a titter*

How's that?

Fair indeed.