[LinearPhilosopher]

 D, on 16 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

DBS - Well, Silencer will be happy


And OMG Princess Principal is FANTASTIC!!! Y'all need to watch this! Victorian London costumes and sets, spies whacking dudes, backstabbing, secret backstories, etc, and the fact that the main cast are high school girls is not a problem like I thought it might be, it actually works and has a real reason for it.

Also, the opening song is sooooooo goooooooood:

i will be checking this one out

[Maark Abbott]

 D, on 16 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

DBS - Well, Silencer will be happy


And OMG Princess Principal is FANTASTIC!!! Y'all need to watch this! Victorian London costumes and sets, spies whacking dudes, backstabbing, secret backstories, etc, and the fact that the main cast are high school girls is not a problem like I thought it might be, it actually works and has a real reason for it.

Also, the opening song is sooooooo goooooooood:

Ten-four, I'll add it to my list as soon as I can get on the ole phone.

On my part I gave two new'uns a whirl - Gamers and MFGIA Gal. They both at least have a potential to be funny - Gamers for playing on the subculture I'm ingrained with, and Gal for being utterly ludicrous. I also picked up Fastest Finger First, which was pretty entertaining.

I should probably add that per season, I like to have a few action picks, at least one slice-of-life, and then some butterfuck nutty stupid stuff.

[Maark Abbott]

Haven't found PP, picked up New Game, gave Restaurant to Another World and AOT Junior High a whirl instead.

[QuickTidal]

So Eichiiro Oda announced on the weekend, and on FB that they are going ahead with a Live Action ONE PIECE tv show.

Crazy! I mean, I'll believe it when I see it...but the fact that the news came from Oda himself? More believable that it might push forward than otherwise.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 QuickTidal, on 24 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

So Eichiiro Oda announced on the weekend, and on FB that they are going ahead with a Live Action ONE PIECE tv show.

Crazy! I mean, I'll believe it when I see it...but the fact that the news came from Oda himself? More believable that it might push forward than otherwise.

When was the last time we had a good live action anime adaptation.

[Silencer]

 LinearPhilosopher, on 26 July 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 24 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

So Eichiiro Oda announced on the weekend, and on FB that they are going ahead with a Live Action ONE PIECE tv show.

Crazy! I mean, I'll believe it when I see it...but the fact that the news came from Oda himself? More believable that it might push forward than otherwise.

When was the last time we had a good live action anime adaptation.

More importantly, One Piece? What, are the actors contracted for life? XD

Honestly, even if it were to become a thing, unless they blow it out of the park, I'm not even sure it will be decent. Especially as, according to QT and others, it takes like 300 episodes for it to *really* hook you.

[QuickTidal]

 Silencer, on 26 July 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 26 July 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 24 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

So Eichiiro Oda announced on the weekend, and on FB that they are going ahead with a Live Action ONE PIECE tv show.

Crazy! I mean, I'll believe it when I see it...but the fact that the news came from Oda himself? More believable that it might push forward than otherwise.

When was the last time we had a good live action anime adaptation.

More importantly, One Piece? What, are the actors contracted for life? XD

Honestly, even if it were to become a thing, unless they blow it out of the park, I'm not even sure it will be decent. Especially as, according to QT and others, it takes like 300 episodes for it to *really* hook you.

Oh for sure, it's RARE to get a good anime adaptation. But it's bound to happen at some point I would think.

And yeah OP is an interesting story to adapt as it's SO long and there is so much table setting. That said, without he right cast, a crazy adventure pirate ship set of movies that DOESN'T resemble PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN might really fly with audiences.

Also, Oda himself has said he's got the best cast in mind already and wants to avoid the casting controversies of recent anime live action adaptations...and would populate the cast with Asian or Asian-American actors (which is cool news).

Anyways, considering it's my second fave anime after EVA, I'm ALL for a ONE PIECE adaptation!

EDIT: Also, Silencer I'd say that it only took me about 30-40 eps to get hooked.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 July 2017 - 12:40 PM

[Silencer]

 QuickTidal, on 26 July 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

 Silencer, on 26 July 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

 LinearPhilosopher, on 26 July 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 24 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

So Eichiiro Oda announced on the weekend, and on FB that they are going ahead with a Live Action ONE PIECE tv show.

Crazy! I mean, I'll believe it when I see it...but the fact that the news came from Oda himself? More believable that it might push forward than otherwise.

When was the last time we had a good live action anime adaptation.

More importantly, One Piece? What, are the actors contracted for life? XD

Honestly, even if it were to become a thing, unless they blow it out of the park, I'm not even sure it will be decent. Especially as, according to QT and others, it takes like 300 episodes for it to *really* hook you.

Oh for sure, it's RARE to get a good anime adaptation. But it's bound to happen at some point I would think.

And yeah OP is an interesting story to adapt as it's SO long and there is so much table setting. That said, without he right cast, a crazy adventure pirate ship set of movies that DOESN'T resemble PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN might really fly with audiences.

Also, Oda himself has said he's got the best cast in mind already and wants to avoid the casting controversies of recent anime live action adaptations...and would populate the cast with Asian or Asian-American actors (which is cool news).

Anyways, considering it's my second fave anime after EVA, I'm ALL for a ONE PIECE adaptation!

EDIT: Also, Silencer I'd say that it only took me about 30-40 eps to get hooked.

I was mostly being tongue in cheek, because I believe you kept telling me to keep going until I mentioned that I'd watched like 30 episodes. XD (Though, to be honest, 30 episodes is more than an entire two-cour anime, that is a LONG time to "get into it", but I believe we had that discussion at the time...although at the same time it isn't that many episodes because 90% of each episode is the previous episode over again, so I dunno...XD)

I think a One Piece live action series will, at most, appeal to the small number of die hard One Piece fans who aren't horrified at the idea of a live action adaptation, and that's about it. Very much doubt it will play outside that tiny circle, as it's an insane universe to just hop into and run with - and you're either looking at an info dump or a lot of confused people if it touches on more than the very basics.
Plus, I think it kind of overlaps with the whole Pirates of the Caribbean a bit more than you think - once it makes the hop to live action, unless they are going to go a lot darker than the first (from what I can tell) 300 or so episodes, "goofy pirate captain" rides a bit close to shore there, imo. And especially with what I assume is a comparatively tiny run time compared to the manga or anime - honestly I doubt there are actors with literal decades to devote to a production like this - it's going to have to cut a lot of content.


But, I could be wrong. Hell, if they do it right, they might even get me on board. XD Though I will likely eat Luffy's hat if *this* is the property that manages to do a live action adaptation correctly.

[QuickTidal]

Oh for sure. I see all those caveats.

But there is always a chance that a niche comic story like OP can have an arc pulled out that sings with audiences. Look at GOTG. Literally an unknown comic property for its entire existence, and with the right cast and writer, it was a massive success.

Anything is possible.

[Dolmen 2.0]

I'm really not sure how One Piece live action would be handled. Tokyo Ghoul Live action I'm looking forward to.


My anime watch so far, just the two:

Kakegurui: I think the show is above average tbh, interesting setting and compelling narrative aside there's this political undercurrent I feel the show could explore further.

As it is Kakegurui and the MC, Yumeko, is fixated on the attraction of risk and Gambling. It both glorifies gambling and denounces it. With that in mind I think the social interactions between students lack balance and diversity, everyone with a bit of an edge acts cocky. too cocky. Theres an element of vice and exaggeration that makes the characters feel a bit straw-man. The characters are almost entirely japanese, I'd have loved to see foreign characters bring Games unique to their countries. I think that's the main gripe I have. Theres a broader story that could have been told with very minor tweaks here and there. maybe an oppurtunity missed.

I would also like to see characters in the school use the gambling system in more integrative ways. It'd be nice to see it filter into how they take a bath, how they eat and sleep etc. Stuff like that would affect quality of life more. There'd be an interesting desperation to the situation should you become a housepet, effectively unable to get your basic needs. I feel someone said this already, possibly d'rek? well anyways I'm seeing the missed oppurtunity...annoyying.

As it is, Gamblers competing for status alone doesn't communicate well. I for one wouldn't see a system like this work in any school i've been to. The levels of violence would escalate and the idea of schooling would collapse.

that aside I think its a great watch, there's good pacing so far and a rich threat variety. I think it'll be a tight fit to have the plot develop much in the 12 episodes scheduled but I like it. I think I'm particularly interested on the inevitable Russian roulette episode. Perhaps that might lean towards what I'm hoping for, steepen the stakes.



Boku No Hero Academia: Huge kudos to bones in the style of delivery and animation quality. It's all working so well for me. That said I recently found several youtubers commenting on the fatal flaw in most shounen anime, the issue of Power Crawl.

As a major fan of the Shounen genre I have a love hate relationship with this particular issue. sometimes it actually adds to the flavor of the show i.e. Tengen toppa Gurren laggaan or Kill la Kill. One Punch Man gained tons of Kudos for highlighting the ridiculousness imbalance in power crawl tends to create. this is the perfect entry point for Hero Academia. It's a show that's very aware of this criticism, being careful and deliberate in creating meaningful advances in power. Making the heroes advance in inches, while maintaining a general level of threat. Where One punch man ridiculed Shounen ALA deadpool, Hero Academia delves into the depth of Shounen ALA Logan.

One thing I appreciate is how quickly a ceiling is established in the show. We already know how strong some of the strongest opponents can be (i.e. Nomu). I really like how we see characters like Deku and Todoroki start to mould themselves into Comparably capable heroes through emotional growth. we can track their growth perfectly by comparing them to the major league heroes that train them thus reducing emphasis on power and scale and shifting the focus to the characters themselves.

HunterxHunter has a pretty set ceiling to power. The variety and emotional impact of the plot adds intensity of interest where shows like bleach and Naruto relied on sheer scale to draw interest.

One Piece is the king of the previous generation of Shounen and variety and emotional investment where what set it apart. I think Hero Academia gives One Piece a sure run for its money when it comes to scene intensity, it offers variety and emotional investment in spades, all in a more compact efficient package. It makes me think of Psycho Pass and Tokyo Ghouls first seasons. this intensity was what grabbed you.

On top of that we get excellent set up. We know exactly where Midoriya will end up and the entire fun of the series is watching him battle to get there. That's text book promise and reward, the type of thing you get from highly successful one shots and the only instance I can recall that such promise was well and truly paid off is in the case of the original Avatar:the last Airbender series... Horikoushi Kouhei Knows what he's doing and how to maximize the impact of each moment.

I'm very hopeful this shows promise is realized.

[D'rek]

I think you're expecting a different sort of movie/project than what they are going to actually make. I don't think this going to be the launch of some big One Piece live-action franchise, I think the international release will be an afterthought, and I definitely don't think this film will be aimed at the big-time fans.

Look at the Attack on Titan live-action film, or the Assassination Classroom one. This is probably going to be the same thing - a B-grade production that roughly adapts the opening chapters of the manga but alters them to fit the story into a single movie, almost exclusively marketed in Japan and made primarily just for the Japanese audience.

And it will make a ton of money domestically, not from the hardcore fans (or at least not just from them) but from the tons of people who don't read Shounen Jump every week but who are passingly familiar with the franchise (which is just about everyone) and find one live-action movie a much more appealing way to check out the franchise than trying to get into a thousand manga chapters or 800 anime episodes.

[Maark Abbott]

Yo where can I find Princess Principal, having a bit of an issue locating a reliable stream

[QuickTidal]

 D, on 26 July 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think you're expecting a different sort of movie/project than what they are going to actually make. I don't think this going to be the launch of some big One Piece live-action franchise, I think the international release will be an afterthought, and I definitely don't think this film will be aimed at the big-time fans.

Look at the Attack on Titan live-action film, or the Assassination Classroom one. This is probably going to be the same thing - a B-grade production that roughly adapts the opening chapters of the manga but alters them to fit the story into a single movie, almost exclusively marketed in Japan and made primarily just for the Japanese audience.

And it will make a ton of money domestically, not from the hardcore fans (or at least not just from them) but from the tons of people who don't read Shounen Jump every week but who are passingly familiar with the franchise (which is just about everyone) and find one live-action movie a much more appealing way to check out the franchise than trying to get into a thousand manga chapters or 800 anime episodes.

All of that is assumption.

There is nothing that says big movies can't be made of these properties. That's a fairly nihilistic POV.

They may not have done it a lot yet, but some have gotten close (Example: Gainax, WETA, and ADV did some solid pre-production on EVANGELION), and others HAVE gotten made.

BATTLE ANGEL is getting made, and through James Cameron and Robert Rodriguez, summer tentpole flick for 2018.

And whatever the casting controversies about it are, DEATH NOTE got made and is coming out on Netflix.

And casting controversies aside, GITS got made (and is arguably pretty good; better than most other adaptations to date) and was released amongst the blockbusters.

Do you think that back in say 2000 if someone told you there would be a huge big budget movie coming out that would feature something like 20 Marvel superheroes in one film...that you'd believe them?

My point is that just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't or isn't going to.

That type of attitude is why it's so HARD to adapt these stories into film.

Are there tellable, compelling stories which are fodder for live action standalone movies in the OP universe? I'd argue there are a lot of them.

We would not be headed towards AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR if someone hadn't taken a chance on IRON MAN a decade ago.

[D'rek]

 Dolmen 2.0, on 26 July 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Boku No Hero Academia: Huge kudos to bones in the style of delivery and animation quality. It's all working so well for me. That said I recently found several youtubers commenting on the fatal flaw in most shounen anime, the issue of Power Crawl.

As a major fan of the Shounen genre I have a love hate relationship with this particular issue. sometimes it actually adds to the flavor of the show i.e. Tengen toppa Gurren laggaan or Kill la Kill. One Punch Man gained tons of Kudos for highlighting the ridiculousness imbalance in power crawl tends to create. this is the perfect entry point for Hero Academia. It's a show that's very aware of this criticism, being careful and deliberate in creating meaningful advances in power. Making the heroes advance in inches, while maintaining a general level of threat. Where One punch man ridiculed Shounen ALA deadpool, Hero Academia delves into the depth of Shounen ALA Logan.

One thing I appreciate is how quickly a ceiling is established in the show. We already know how strong some of the strongest opponents can be (i.e. Nomu). I really like how we see characters like Deku and Todoroki start to mould themselves into Comparably capable heroes through emotional growth. we can track their growth perfectly by comparing them to the major league heroes that train them thus reducing emphasis on power and scale and shifting the focus to the characters themselves.

HunterxHunter has a pretty set ceiling to power. The variety and emotional impact of the plot adds intensity of interest where shows like bleach and Naruto relied on sheer scale to draw interest.

One Piece is the king of the previous generation of Shounen and variety and emotional investment where what set it apart. I think Hero Academia gives One Piece a sure run for its money when it comes to scene intensity, it offers variety and emotional investment in spades, all in a more compact efficient package. It makes me think of Psycho Pass and Tokyo Ghouls first seasons. this intensity was what grabbed you.

On top of that we get excellent set up. We know exactly where Midoriya will end up and the entire fun of the series is watching him battle to get there. That's text book promise and reward, the type of thing you get from highly successful one shots and the only instance I can recall that such promise was well and truly paid off is in the case of the original Avatar:the last Airbender series... Horikoushi Kouhei Knows what he's doing and how to maximize the impact of each moment.

I'm very hopeful this shows promise is realized.

I saw the Gigguk power-creep video. Haven't seen the rest.

I'm not sure I'm ready to say MHA really does anything all that differently yet. It's just too early.

People say that All Might vs Nomu established a "power ceiling" but did it really? All Might was so weakened, the author could easily have Midoriya reach that level and then keep "creeping" beyond it by hand-waving it away as All Might having a bad day.

A LOT of the characters' skill improvements have so far been based around overcoming some limitations to their abilities or techniques, something that has already been done in other series that did have power creep... you just keep surpassing more and more limitations.

Now in the recent episodes we're already seeing the superpower system sort of break down in favour of "power scaling" - it's supposed to be all based around the Quirks and otherwise the world is "real", but Stain has no problem slicing through an entire iceberg of solid ice with an ordinary sword (in mid-air, too).

Even if they reach the peak of believability with the Quirks thing, there's nothing stopping the author from introducing some new system/technique that makes the bad guys even stronger and the good guys have to catch up some more, a la Haki in One Piece.

Since we're talking One Piece, honestly I think One Piece and MHA are looking veeeery similar so far. They're both going for a big cast of main and recurring characters. Both are relatively low-consequences, no-deaths stories. Both have a system where every major character will have a superpower and the superpowers can be literally anything so there can always be a new villain with another new tyrannical power. Both have the main character be a simple, kind-hearted boy who cherishes his friends and all that mushy stuff, and who's power is focused around punchy combat instead of all the bizarro superpowers around them.

It's early yet, so MHA could very well become quite different than OP, and even quite different from all other shounen superfight shows, but I don't think that is the case right now.

[D'rek]

 QuickTidal, on 26 July 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

 D, on 26 July 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think you're expecting a different sort of movie/project than what they are going to actually make. I don't think this going to be the launch of some big One Piece live-action franchise, I think the international release will be an afterthought, and I definitely don't think this film will be aimed at the big-time fans.

Look at the Attack on Titan live-action film, or the Assassination Classroom one. This is probably going to be the same thing - a B-grade production that roughly adapts the opening chapters of the manga but alters them to fit the story into a single movie, almost exclusively marketed in Japan and made primarily just for the Japanese audience.

And it will make a ton of money domestically, not from the hardcore fans (or at least not just from them) but from the tons of people who don't read Shounen Jump every week but who are passingly familiar with the franchise (which is just about everyone) and find one live-action movie a much more appealing way to check out the franchise than trying to get into a thousand manga chapters or 800 anime episodes.

All of that is assumption.

There is nothing that says big movies can't be made of these properties. That's a fairly nihilistic POV.

They may not have done it a lot yet, but some have gotten close (Example: Gainax, WETA, and ADV did some solid pre-production on EVANGELION), and others HAVE gotten made.

BATTLE ANGEL is getting made, and through James Cameron and Robert Rodriguez, summer tentpole flick for 2018.

And whatever the casting controversies about it are, DEATH NOTE got made and is coming out on Netflix.

And casting controversies aside, GITS got made (and is arguably pretty good; better than most other adaptations to date) and was released amongst the blockbusters.

Do you think that back in say 2000 if someone told you there would be a huge big budget movie coming out that would feature something like 20 Marvel superheroes in one film...that you'd believe them?

My point is that just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't or isn't going to.

That type of attitude is why it's so HARD to adapt these stories into film.

Are there tellable, compelling stories which are fodder for live action standalone movies in the OP universe? I'd argue there are a lot of them.

We would not be headed towards AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR if someone hadn't taken a chance on IRON MAN a decade ago.

For sure, it's *possible* they will shop it out to Hollywood and give it the big blockbuster treatment, or even do a 50/50 Japan-Hollywood partnership project. The could get Neil Blomkamp to do an utterly unexpected art-house adaptation that is a complete deconstruction of Pirates of the Caribbean using One Piece.

I'm not saying those things can't happen.

I am saying that the producers of the last two recent enormous shounen manga series to be given the live-action film treatment did it this way, and the same goes for so many, many other manga/LN live-adaptations (Bakuman, Yamada and the 7 Witches, Erased, Your Lie in April, Cutie Honey, Lupin, Gantz, Ouran Host Club)

Heck, if we want to just talk big shounen adaptations, haven't they already announced the live-action Full Metal Alchemist and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure movies? And both of those are domestic Japanese productions with little-to-no international marketing drive to speak of yet.

I'd love for One Piece to get the Speed Racer treatment, sure. But until they announce it is going to be a Hollywood project, rather than yet another B-grade domestic Japanese production like AssClass or Jojo, statistics says it is much more likely to be the latter.

Though I am only realizing just now that you said TV show... missed that, and have been thinking film this whole time.

[D'rek]

 Maark Abbott, on 26 July 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Yo where can I find Princess Principal, having a bit of an issue locating a reliable stream

Looks like it is on Amazon Prime (and/or whatever Amazon's video service is called these days) in the USA.

(But if you don't have that should be pretty easy to find from a google search???)

[LinearPhilosopher]

 D, on 26 July 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 26 July 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Yo where can I find Princess Principal, having a bit of an issue locating a reliable stream

Looks like it is on Amazon Prime (and/or whatever Amazon's video service is called these days) in the USA.

(But if you don't have that should be pretty easy to find from a google search???)

Prime Video. With all the stuff you can get on amazon, a prime membership easily pays for itself.

As for comments about MHA ill admit to speaking out turn here having only just finished season 1 (after the fact everyone is obssessed with the show). In regards to power ceilings in shounen, there's something to be said for them. IN MHA all might is the best hero so hes is set as the ceiling, yet given the nature of his power one for all is a quirk that is refined generation over generation there's something said for room to grow.

Sidenote: MHA is a good show, but i do not see what it has done to deserve the Hype. Its good, but its not Great in the way i would characterize shows like LOGH, FMA or Bebop

To my knowledge, there are only two long term shounen shows which did a good job of handling power creep. Jojos and Hunter Hunter.

The former does it by skipping generations. The first JoJo is Jonathan Joestar who lives in turn of the century england. Once his arc is done we move onto arc 2 wich features Joseph Joestar (Best arc of Jojos by far) were the enemies are quite a huge step up from previous but its all kept relative. This second arc takes place in the 30s

Then season 3, feature Jotaro JoeStar (though joseph is still there but in a much diminished role and character) and we are introduced to the concept of stands, so the power creep that was introduced with the vampires, pillar men and hammon has been eliminated.

Then in part 4 we have another Joestar family memeber but im not there yet (still cruising through s3)

Hunter Hunter: Best part about this is that it does power progression really well, it has amaazing training scenes as well as utilization of strategy. But more to that point, Nen battles are not a question of who has more nen or better control, its a question of how you use your nen talents and how you understand nen abilities. Every Nen fight is a chess match where its a question of understanding your oponenets abilities and how to counter the,. (with one notable exception). Its a huge reason for why Im a giant fan of Hunter Hunter, the fights are amazing because its not a question of who gets the random power up, its who has the better gameplan.

So those are two ways you can avoid power creep. By giving your story a reset point every so often, or creating a power system where rather than having differences in power, you have differences in kind.


As a last point, even the GITS adaptation was awful, awful in the sense it got the Hollywood treatment in terms of getting the aesthetic right, but none of the deeper substance. In short its another shallow adaptation and i would not qualify it as good in any sense. Quite frankly, hollywood is to dumb for quality anime adaptation unless they do something straightforward like one punch man

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 27 July 2017 - 12:25 AM

[Maark Abbott]

 D, on 26 July 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

 Maark Abbott, on 26 July 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Yo where can I find Princess Principal, having a bit of an issue locating a reliable stream

Looks like it is on Amazon Prime (and/or whatever Amazon's video service is called these days) in the USA.

(But if you don't have that should be pretty easy to find from a google search???)

There are places that have it, but they seem... Icky. If you could name some trustworthy streamers that'd be helpful. I don't have Prime at all, alas.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Nope and Nope host reliably.

There was a hacking incident recently so there are some bot controls on Nope but it's still my prime streaming site due to the wide variety of quality servers and prompt upload times.

Edit: understood! My bad.

This post has been edited by Dolmen 2.0: 27 July 2017 - 06:33 PM
Reason for edit: Refer post below.

[Silencer]

Hey, I know I personally occasionally reference this stuff, but if we're going to discuss alternative viewing options can we keep it to PM where possible, guys?

Code of Conduct:

Quote

Piracy/Warez
Do not post links to piracy or warez websites or mention where or how people can do such things. Even cleverly or creatively letting people know where to go is not permitted. Malazan Empire is a representative site of our favorite author. Do not post something that might jeopardize this. 1st time is a warning, 2nd time and you will be banned.

Emphasis added.
Like I said, I've skirted this issue myself a few times, and the CoC is perhaps a bit paranoid on this subject but I'll still stand by the rule to err on the side of caution. Cheers.