[polishgenius]

I think it is fair to say that Brandon Sanderson and Mistborn have been and will be extremely influential on the genre, in the way that it takes weird/new weird elements and uses them in a story that is very clearly epic fantasy, something which had before then almost solely the province of Tolkienite worlds. He isn't the first (hell, there's some of it in Malazan) but he's certainly the most influential and I don't think it's at all coincidence that authors like Adrian Tchaikovsky, Robert V.S. Redick and Mark Chadbourne have seen success since Mistborn broke big. I am very glad he exists and is successful.



That doesn't make him a particularly great writer, however.

Being prolific doesn't really mean much if the books aren't good so that's a nonsense argument. I'd much rather he took his time and put out more polished efforts, but each to his own.

[Cause]

Just thought I would add that I finally started the series based on this thread and I am now one of the converted. Very entertaining, Very clever work!

[Salt-Man Z]

Started cruising through EMPEROR last night, now I'm on page 250 or so. Don't tell me, but it seems pretty obvious to me now that

Spoiler

the Dead King is William.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 28 August 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

I think it is fair to say that Brandon Sanderson and Mistborn have been and will be extremely influential on the genre, in the way that it takes weird/new weird elements and uses them in a story that is very clearly epic fantasy, something which had before then almost solely the province of Tolkienite worlds. He isn't the first (hell, there's some of it in Malazan) but he's certainly the most influential and I don't think it's at all coincidence that authors like Adrian Tchaikovsky, Robert V.S. Redick and Mark Chadbourne have seen success since Mistborn broke big. I am very glad he exists and is successful.



That doesn't make him a particularly great writer, however.

Being prolific doesn't really mean much if the books aren't good so that's a nonsense argument. I'd much rather he took his time and put out more polished efforts, but each to his own.

I agree with most of this. However, I'm very willing to say Sanderson is - if you look at his mechanics in comparison to his "peers" - a shitty writer who has seized upon a set of themes/characters/stories that a ton of people will buy books of and churns those out.

Due to his pace, background and morals/ethics, he won't deal with some stuff others do and he won't say anything particularly deep or meaningful about what he does deal with. But he'll drop a big pile of story and Mormonesque characters on you the reader in a hurry.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 28 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 28 August 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

I think it is fair to say that Brandon Sanderson and Mistborn have been and will be extremely influential on the genre, in the way that it takes weird/new weird elements and uses them in a story that is very clearly epic fantasy, something which had before then almost solely the province of Tolkienite worlds. He isn't the first (hell, there's some of it in Malazan) but he's certainly the most influential and I don't think it's at all coincidence that authors like Adrian Tchaikovsky, Robert V.S. Redick and Mark Chadbourne have seen success since Mistborn broke big. I am very glad he exists and is successful.



That doesn't make him a particularly great writer, however.

Being prolific doesn't really mean much if the books aren't good so that's a nonsense argument. I'd much rather he took his time and put out more polished efforts, but each to his own.

I agree with most of this. However, I'm very willing to say Sanderson is - if you look at his mechanics in comparison to his "peers" - a shitty writer who has seized upon a set of themes/characters/stories that a ton of people will buy books of and churns those out.

Due to his pace, background and morals/ethics, he won't deal with some stuff others do and he won't say anything particularly deep or meaningful about what he does deal with. But he'll drop a big pile of story and Mormonesque characters on you the reader in a hurry.

But he's making big heaping ugly globs of money more than other what you would consider less shitty writers.

I'm not saying fiscal success is the only measure of success as an author, but more people are buying his stuff than many other authors' stuff, and its hard to argue with that many eyeballs.

[Salt-Man Z]

Abyss, on 28 August 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

I'm not saying fiscal success is the only measure of success as an author, but more people are buying his stuff than many other authors' stuff, and its hard to argue with that many eyeballs.

Obviously Stephenie Meyer is the best fantasy writer of the new millenium.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 28 August 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

and its hard to argue with that many eyeballs.

Really?

[birthSqueeze]

I agree that the majority of Brandon Sanderson's work could be a bit more polished. If you're judging based on his writing by it's self then he's not that great, but I'm looking at the whole picture - plot, characters, world, etc. My favorite aspects of his novels is the magic system and interesting plots. He's also a fantastic world builder. The reason so many people like him is because his books excite people and it's easy to become attached to the characters, especially in The Way of Kings which I believe is easily his best work to date. I seriously wish he would focus more of his time and effort on Stormlight Archives instead of doing all these side projects. I also think that how prolific a writer is definitely counts, especially since it takes years for some writers to dish out 2nd and 3rd books to their series (cough.... Patrick Rothfuss.... George Martin..... cough). Just look at how prolific Steven Erikson is. The ability to dish out 1200 page books at nearly the pace of one per year is an amazing feat.

[Baco Xtath]

birthSqueeze, on 27 August 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 23 August 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

And comparing Lawrence's prose to that of Sanderson is downright cruel. Sanderson's prose is as flat as beer left over from last night's party.

Yes, I agree it's cruel because Brandon Sanderson is a much better writer.

I can't possibly take you seriously after this statement. I enjoy Sanderson's works but to say his prose.....writing, is better than Lawrence's is laughable. I know this is an opinion but it's borderline fact. Yes Sanderson sells more and yes he will be better remembered if neither were to write another word, but that doesn't mean his writing is better. The Yearded one has sold more than Wolfe, Mieville, Peake, Gilman, Vandermeer, ..........you get the point..........well, maybe.

[polishgenius]

birthSqueeze, on 28 August 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

but I'm looking at the whole picture - plot, characters, world, etc.

I'm also looking at the whole picture and really, the only place where Sanderson stands out is his ideas in worldbuilding. I haven't read Way of Kings yet, mind you - I will eventually but I'm not in a rush.

Quote

Just look at how prolific Steven Erikson is. The ability to dish out 1200 page books at nearly the pace of one per year is an amazing feat.

The quality which Erikson maintained cranking out the main Malazan series as fast as he did was amazing but at times he was struggling to meet the deadlines iirc and it definitely showed. I mean just apart from the obvious timeline issues, there was a quality dip in the latter half. Forge of Darkness, on the other hand, which he took a bit more time on, is his best book since Midnight Tides, so you know.

It's good when a writer can write quickly, but it doesn't make them better. It just makes them faster.

[birthSqueeze]

Baco Xtath, on 28 August 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

birthSqueeze, on 27 August 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 23 August 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

And comparing Lawrence's prose to that of Sanderson is downright cruel. Sanderson's prose is as flat as beer left over from last night's party.

Yes, I agree it's cruel because Brandon Sanderson is a much better writer.

I can't possibly take you seriously after this statement. I enjoy Sanderson's works but to say his prose.....writing, is better than Lawrence's is laughable. I know this is an opinion but it's borderline fact. Yes Sanderson sells more and yes he will be better remembered if neither were to write another word, but that doesn't mean his writing is better. The Yearded one has sold more than Wolfe, Mieville, Peake, Gilman, Vandermeer, ..........you get the point..........well, maybe.

I should have said author. He's a much better author than Mark Lawrence. I'm reading Alloy of Law right now and his prose are not that good. His ideas sure are mind blowing though. I don't know how anyone can sit there and tell me that two magic systems in one series revolving around metals which are linked to the mist isn't super innovative - he links everything together. He's even linking all of his worlds together and this will come together in a future Stormlight Archives book for something. Brandon Sanderson knows exactly what he's doing. He never meanders off course. If you read Mistborn from beginning to end it's pretty enough obviously he knew exactly what he was doing right from the beginning. His characterization also improves greatly in The Way of Kings. I'm shocked that people here don't care for Brandon Sanderson that much. I would think that innovative and fantastical ideas would be just as important as prose to Malazan fans.

[nacht]

birthSqueeze, on 28 August 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Malaclypse, on 27 August 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

birthSqueeze, on 27 August 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 23 August 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

And comparing Lawrence's prose to that of Sanderson is downright cruel. Sanderson's prose is as flat as beer left over from last night's party.

Yes, I agree it's cruel because Brandon Sanderson is a much better writer. His flat prose tell the story very effectively. I'm not saying that prose aren't important because they are very important. For example If you're writing lets say a horror novel then the prose need to create atmosphere and excitement. If you're writing a plot focused book like Brandon Sanderson always does then flat and straight forward prose works very well. Of course, anything can work provided it is well written. Bad writing is bad writing is becoming a cliche here.

Obvious fool here. BAN

Brandon Sanderson is having a huge impact on the fantasy genre; Mistborn will be one of the most influential fantasy novels of all time. He's also one of the most prolific contemporary writers. I'm amazed at the pace he produces books. By comparison there really isn't much going on in the Broken Empires books, the plot is weak, and it's not that innovative. The Broken Empires is just a little puddle compared to Mistborn. In fifty years Broken Empires will most likely have been forgotten, but people will still be going back and finding great enjoyment in Mistborn.

No offence, but what is his "huge" impact as a result of which he will be remembered a long time from now? Perhaps you can contrast with LotR and ASofIF (both of which demonstrably had a huge impact).
Second, if anything TBE was incredibly innovative in terms of plot.

I read Mistborn and never read anything more by Sanderson. The main characters are old fantasy tropes (poor kid discovers great skills prodded by great master). In terms of innovation. I counted a total of two. The "metals" which are not exactly a deep magic system and the other is the emperor himself who was cleverly handled.

[amphibian]

The important thing to take away from all this is that Lawrence writes well and we're doing our damndest to get people to buy his books.

[polishgenius]

birthSqueeze, on 29 August 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

I don't know how anyone can sit there and tell me that two magic systems in one series revolving around metals which are linked to the mist isn't super innovative

Oh for fuck's sake. No-one's saying that. Just that innovation isn't the be-all and end-all of writing.

Quote

I'm shocked that people here don't care for Brandon Sanderson that much.

Quite a few people do. He even has a subforum. But Malazan fans aren't a unified hive-mind entity despite the best efforts of Abyss, and our tastes are many and varied.

Quote

I would think that innovative and fantastical ideas would be just as important as prose to Malazan fans.

The fact that this is your reaction to a post containing a list with Mieville, Gilman, Vandermeer, Wolfe and Peake suggests you haven't read too much fantasy.

[Pig Iron]

Just finished Emperor. What a great read. Fantastic characters, and some surprisingly moving scenes. Wonder a little about the ending,

Spoiler

seems Jorg left his newborn and wife at the head of a now unmagical empire where he has just made blood-feuds with about half of the ruling dynasties, with allies besides his grandfather only in the far north and the far south?

Given how Jorg thinks, this was probably in his view the best chances they could get no matter how grim though. Not one to balk at tough choices ...

And could the Sanderson discussion please be moved to a separate thread?

[Morgoth]

birthSqueeze, on 28 August 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

I agree that the majority of Brandon Sanderson's work could be a bit more polished. If you're judging based on his writing by it's self then he's not that great, but I'm looking at the whole picture - plot, characters, world, etc. My favorite aspects of his novels is the magic system and interesting plots. He's also a fantastic world builder. The reason so many people like him is because his books excite people and it's easy to become attached to the characters, especially in The Way of Kings which I believe is easily his best work to date. I seriously wish he would focus more of his time and effort on Stormlight Archives instead of doing all these side projects. I also think that how prolific a writer is definitely counts, especially since it takes years for some writers to dish out 2nd and 3rd books to their series (cough.... Patrick Rothfuss.... George Martin..... cough). Just look at how prolific Steven Erikson is. The ability to dish out 1200 page books at nearly the pace of one per year is an amazing feat.

Plot and characters are certainly not Sanderson's strenghts, and compare any of his worlds to those of Erikson, Vandermeer, Mieville, Abercrombie, Martin, Lawrence, Jordan and so on and you'll find Sanderson to be pretty lacking there too.

Sanderson's strenght is his creativity when it comes to Magic and other similar concepts. He is also remarkably consistent in using the rules he sets out for himself. I'd also argue that he's one of the most capable writers of action sequences around these days. The Alloy of Law illustrated his strenghts in that regard I think.

If the Stormlight Archives reap success accross several books I believe he'll be responsible for rekindling interest in epic fantasy of more than Three books in length, but that's more or less how far his reach goes I think.

What other sort of influence does he wield? How does it manifest in the genre?

[Vengeance]

I have never read Sanderson and I love Lawrence. I happily tell people to read Lawrence. I have also never read Harry potter. Now of the two series that I have never read I think that potter is much more influential as a whole. But all of this is a discussion for another thread. This thread is about how awesome Lawrence is. Please remove the Sanderson posts to a new thread or to sandersons forum

[birthSqueeze]

That's fine. I'm just trying to understand other people's point of views because nothing about Mark Lawrence's books impress me that much except for his prose. Good prose doesn't really account for much unless the story and ideas interest people. As far as I can tell his world is like half baked bread and the plot full of random deus ex machina.

[Salt-Man Z]

I'll take prose over plot any day. A book with a terrible (or no) plot can still be a pleasure to read if the prose is good enough. But an excellent plot has to work that much harder to overcome bad prose. It comes down to personal preference, I think.

On topic, I just read the Jorg/Marco/Fayed scene in EoT, and wow!

[Mark Lawrence]

Salt-Man Z, on 29 August 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

I'll take prose over plot any day. A book with a terrible (or no) plot can still be a pleasure to read if the prose is good enough. But an excellent plot has to work that much harder to overcome bad prose. It comes down to personal preference, I think.

On topic, I just read the Jorg/Marco/Fayed scene in EoT, and wow!

You may well fit my profile http://mark---lawren...and-snails.html