[HoosierDaddy]

Binder of Demons, on 14 June 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

I haven't bothered to go to another site and read viewers comments, but all in all I think the series has been handled very well thus far. I do wish it was a 12-13 episode season so things didn't seem quite as rushed, and it would have potentially allowed for a few of the battles to be realised on screen. Perhaps they will do that for season 2 if HBO are really happy with the success of season1.

I know again it's probably a budgetary thing, but my major gripe with the series is actually a cinematography thing. The way it's shot, I never got the sense of grandeur or majesty I would have expected of such an epic series. It has the look of TV rather than a movie, which I don't quite get. No true wide angle shots to show the army's in the landscape, or to give a real sense of scale to "The Wall". I know the close-in shooting style can give an air of intimacy to a scene which is great for character stuff, especially any talky scenes. But when dealing with things like armies marching or any regal event (like the joust for example) I would have liked to have seen how big a deal these things are.


I was only watching Batman Begins the other night and one of the early scenes is of Christian Bale about to start climbing the mountain, and you get an awesome wide angle shot which gives you the scale of the valley and the mountain, and then it drops back to close up shooting of him climbing. But the establishment shot had already done it's job, and showed you the scope of the challenge ahead of him.

Now I'm not saying shoot everything like it was Lord of The Rings, but just a few more establishment shots would be nice. It is the Game of Thrones after all.

Apart from that, I'm enjoying it thus far. The casting has been a major triumph. Robb is really coming into his own, and Catelyn has been excellent. Can't wait for the last episode.

Right, well there we run into budgetary concerns on both. They only have so much money, so they had to do half a dozen of this and six of the other in a lot of instances. The opening credits do an amazing job of showing the simple scale of Westeros and the main settings, and it's something they can do every time to keep implanting it. Like, you see the Wall grow over and over again to it's massive size. Then, you add in the expository dialogue talking about 600 and 700 foot/meters (hell I can't remember, probably foot) drops and so forth, a less than attentive viewer can make that connection if it's reinforced enough.

It would be nice to see the Eyrie from multiple views and it's awesomeness in general, but they couldn't afford the elevator in time or cost (efficiency) so instead you get Tyrion's sky-cell and the precipitous ledge with the expository dialogue of "it being impregnable" "give me 11 men with climbing boots (whatever) and I'll impregnate the bitch" between Tyrion and Bronn.

We'll just have to see where it goes, but I've been 99.9% impressed. I'll wait and see if the .1% grows on me.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 June 2011 - 05:16 AM

[MTS]

Yeah, I would agree with that. One thing that has suffered in consequence is the viewer's impression of the war. People I've gotten into this series had no idea Riverrun was being besieged, or where Jaime was - hell, some of them are still wondering where Beric Dondarrion and the Mountain fit into all this.

EDIT - @Binder

This post has been edited by MTS: 14 June 2011 - 05:12 AM

[Binder of Demons]

@ HD - I think the skycell was a great way of giving a sense of the scale without having to break the bank. My thing about the landscapes is that if you have a few known locations which are crucial and constantly re-occur, like "The Wall", then you could shoot a few epic, sweeping scenes to give a sense of the scale, and judiciously spread them out over the season. the extra details can be added into a shot pretty easily these days, it's just you need to get the wide shot.

Same goes for the Dothraki. You have horse warriors, plainly based on the mongols, so you should have at least a shot or two of them in an open expanse. Again, you wouldn't need to take 500 people on horseback to a picture perfect location. with some "trickeration" you could have a few people on horseback looking out over an expanse, and then do some CGI to show the full train form a distance (in the environment).

I know this all boils down to budget, but it has really jumped out at me that they never seem to have used a truly wide angle shot. (maybe this comes from being a photographer who is itching to take some true wide angle landscapes soon).


Plus, I agree on the opening credits. They are awesome, and the combo of visuals and score do give an idea of the scale and intricacies of the world. Easily aong the best opening credits of any show on tv.

[Trull's son]

Loved the episode. Was really looking forward to the whole "beheading". So frustrating in the books, I couldn't wait to see the response after it occurred in the show.
The videos are just hilarious: "Murdered in cold blood... with a motherfuckin' claymore." = Made my evening right there.

[worry]

They should do a raven mail scene where you follow the raven(s) along the whole way, like follow the news from King's Landing to the wall. Rent a helicopter and shoot a bunch of bird's eye views across the continent. That would at least do the wide shots folded into story progression.

[amphibian]

Briar King, on 14 June 2011 - 05:44 AM, said:

I heard this aswell and was unable to find a film for her sadly lol.

I wonder if we will get to see the Red Comet next Sunday or if its left out till S2?

Get the movie Head-On from Netflix. That'll take care of anything you want to see and it's a really, really good movie to boot.

[Use Of Weapons]

Re: pacing -- I actually think that the 10-eps pace has made the politics in Kings Landing really work. It shows the naivety of Ned, his inability to cope with all the politicking going on around him, and events rush past without him really getting a handle on anything.

[blackzoid]

If people can't handle this, how the hell will they handle the Red Wedding?

Or a Chain of Dogs if it was ever made into a film?

[Abyss]

Tapper, on 13 June 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

...Instead, I meant saving the 'omfg they really snuffed Sean Bean!!" moment until the start of episode 10 to get a peak of viewers during the final ep, instead of potentially peaking right now.
...

Nah, i think it was a brilliant move.
Ending the finale with that same shot would have left NRV's pissed off until S2 wondering what happened and readers either snickering or spoilering them.

This way, we're going to get a finale that consists of angry Arya escaping with Yoren, isolated Sansa in trouble, Jon and the Watch dramatically riding out into the North beyond the Wall, thousands of burly northmen screaming THE KING IN THE NORTH at Robb, and Dany walking out of Drogo's pyre with frikkin dragons crawling around on her.

Now tell me THAT isn't going to bring them back.

Tapper, on 13 June 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

...If Erikson ever gets half that treatment I'll be so thankful for the recognition he gets and the chance for the series to reach out to a larger public that I'll rather bite my tongue of then comment that Karsa really shouldn't sound like a californian surfer on steroids.

QFT.

Ceda Cicero, on 13 June 2011 - 11:24 PM, said:

There are shittons of people coming late to the game on this one. Twitter and Facebook are both blowing up with people watching it On Demand, DVR, etc etc. We're talking like one post every minute on FB. It's hilarious.

Yep. and it's going to more than makeup for the minority of people whining because, shocker, Sean Bean died. Again.
(i swear the guy is like Kenny from Southpark...)

End of Disc One, on 14 June 2011 - 12:39 AM, said:

worrywort, on 14 June 2011 - 12:00 AM, said:

Oh man, that sucks. Also, as regards Shae, I don't know if it's been brought up, but besides being an award winning actress, she's a former adult film star.

I have my extensive personal film collection to thank for revealing this bit of trivia to me.

Fixed to reflect reality.

HoosierDaddy, on 14 June 2011 - 05:10 AM, said:

Binder of Demons, on 14 June 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

I haven't bothered to go to another site and read viewers comments, but all in all I think the series has been handled very well thus far. I do wish it was a 12-13 episode season so things didn't seem quite as rushed, and it would have potentially allowed for a few of the battles to be realised on screen. Perhaps they will do that for season 2 if HBO are really happy with the success of season1.

I know again it's probably a budgetary thing, ...

Right, well there we run into budgetary concerns on both. They only have so much money, ...It would be nice to see the Eyrie from multiple views and it's awesomeness in general, but they couldn't afford the elevator in time or cost (efficiency) so instead you get Tyrion's sky-cell and the precipitous ledge with the expository dialogue of "it being impregnable" "give me 11 men with climbing boots (whatever) and I'll impregnate the bitch" between Tyrion and Bronn....

Yah, the reality is that casts of thousands of costumed extras with swords running at each other are expensive as fuck for really brief shots, so instead we see the aftermath, Bronn looking exhausted and cleaning blood from his sword, and a few comments.

For what it's worth i think that's been done really well. Robb riding over to Cat at the end looked like he had been in a fight.

I'm sure we'll get a few key battles to a limitted extent, but overall there will be more suggestion than actual shots.

MTS, on 14 June 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

Yeah, I would agree with that. One thing that has suffered in consequence is the viewer's impression of the war. People I've gotten into this series had no idea Riverrun was being besieged, or where Jaime was - hell, some of them are still wondering where Beric Dondarrion and the Mountain fit into all this....

Yeah... that's a real challenge with this series. The reason SIF works well in tv is because there is a lot more going on that massive battles, but at the same time, once in a while we want to see those battles.

Binder of Demons, on 14 June 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:

...I know this all boils down to budget, but it has really jumped out at me that they never seem to have used a truly wide angle shot. ...

Again, expensive.

jitsukerr, on 14 June 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

Re: pacing -- I actually think that the 10-eps pace has made the politics in Kings Landing really work. It shows the naivety of Ned, his inability to cope with all the politicking going on around him, and events rush past without him really getting a handle on anything.

Agreed.
And it's a nice twist on the usual 'nobel dude does right, wins out in the end' trope.

[King Bear]

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Nah, i think it was a brilliant move.
Ending the finale with that same shot would have left NRV's pissed off until S2 wondering what happened and readers either snickering or spoilering them.

Didn't Tapper mean if Ned's beheading shot was kept for the start of the finale? Yes, I am now pedantic bear, unless I completely misunderstood what you meant and am become fail bear.

Abyss said:

Yep. and it's going to more than makeup for the minority of people whining because, shocker, Sean Bean died. Again.
(i swear the guy is like Kenny from Southpark...)

Indeedie.

Saw a post: Oh no, I can't believe they killed Boromir!
My thought: Well, they did it in LotRs. Delicious irony.

[Traveller]

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

And it's a nice twist on the usual 'nobel dude does right, wins out in the end' trope.

Yes, because Ned does everything he sees as being right, and loyal, and honourable - he's a good father to his children, he didn't take the throne when he had the chance, he would rather have sent Cersei into exile than see her and the children killed - and he ends up decorating the walls.

If non reading viewers hate this, imagine them watching the scene where Joff etc get the news about Robb? A room full of Lannisters, all smiling and celebrating. I still wonder if the tv series will get that far...

The problem with translating the book to tv is that most tv series rely on a group of characters that not only become familiar, but at least succeed to some degree in what they are doing. Having just re-read the series, there are actually very few scenes or events where characters that can be sympathised with actually succeed at anything, or win over their enemies. And like it or not, that is what keeps people watching - the hope that the ones being crushed underfoot will somehow get their own back.

After GoT's, the Lannisters win again and again and again - and ok, some of them do get some sort of retribution, but that is a long way off in terms of episodes.

Also, I wonder if GRRM will get to the point where he is writing the concluding books in a way that makes it more likely that they will get televised - depending on the ratings of the ones already made. I would have thought it would be impossible to write in the same way if you know that every line will later get transferred to a script and screenplay.

Or, that if you kill off a certain person, your TV series might get cancelled, so we'd better keep them alive instead.


What an amazing episode though... best yet I think. The scene with Dany was spot on, creepy and weird - and the final scene made me think 'they can't do that!' all over again.

Poor dead Ned.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 14 June 2011 - 07:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Yep. and it's going to more than makeup for the minority of people whining because, shocker, Sean Bean died. Again.
(i swear the guy is like Kenny from Southpark...)

At least he's never died as Sharpe! Yay!

[Tapper]

Future Warrior, on 14 June 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Nah, i think it was a brilliant move.
Ending the finale with that same shot would have left NRV's pissed off until S2 wondering what happened and readers either snickering or spoilering them.

Didn't Tapper mean if Ned's beheading shot was kept for the start of the finale?

That's exactly what I mean. Start ep 10 directly with the beheading, then go on with whatever else you're going to put into it. The same effect, but more viewers for ep 10.

[End of Disc One]

Tapper, on 14 June 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Future Warrior, on 14 June 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Nah, i think it was a brilliant move.
Ending the finale with that same shot would have left NRV's pissed off until S2 wondering what happened and readers either snickering or spoilering them.

Didn't Tapper mean if Ned's beheading shot was kept for the start of the finale?

That's exactly what I mean. Start ep 10 directly with the beheading, then go on with whatever else you're going to put into it. The same effect, but more viewers for ep 10.

I disagree that it's the same effect. After watching the beheading you need a break.

[Traveller]

Yep, I hope that was it for that scene. It was well done, subtle, and similar to the book as it wasn't directly seen as Arya had her face covered. In CoK's Sansa remembers how his legs twitched, and how his head was held up, but I hope they don't go down that road.

The head on the spike should be sufficient for anyone!

[QuickTidal]

End of Disc One, on 14 June 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

Tapper, on 14 June 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Future Warrior, on 14 June 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 June 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Nah, i think it was a brilliant move.
Ending the finale with that same shot would have left NRV's pissed off until S2 wondering what happened and readers either snickering or spoilering them.

Didn't Tapper mean if Ned's beheading shot was kept for the start of the finale?

That's exactly what I mean. Start ep 10 directly with the beheading, then go on with whatever else you're going to put into it. The same effect, but more viewers for ep 10.

I disagree that it's the same effect. After watching the beheading you need a break.

Indeed. I agree.

I think thematically, it's a better idea to start the episode after having given people a chance to digest the beheading for a week, otherwise they'd have dwelled on it for the whole episode instead of concentrating on the other things that happen in ep 10.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 June 2011 - 04:43 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

If next week's preview is any indication, we'll at least get a glimpse of the immediate aftermath in Baelor's Square after the execution (the preview kicks off showing Sansa fainting, Payne's sword dripping blood, etc. - none of which were in ep 9.) I'm guessing it will transition immediately into Yoren getting out with Arya and the court dragging Sansa back to the Red Keep.

Edit: Also, Catelyn wins the badass award for that preview. Her "We will kill them all" to Robb is particularly chilling to those of us who know Stoneheart is coming, and she's smacking the shit out of Jaime.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 14 June 2011 - 04:51 PM

[QuickTidal]

Ceda Cicero, on 14 June 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

If next week's preview is any indication, we'll at least get a glimpse of the immediate aftermath in Baelor's Square after the execution (the preview kicks off showing Sansa fainting, Payne's sword dripping blood, etc. - none of which were in ep 9.) I'm guessing it will transition immediately into Yoren getting out with Arya and the court dragging Sansa back to the Red Keep.

That shot of Arya hugging to Yoren's chest is palpably emotional. Like lump in throat-style.

[Ceda Cicero]

Slightly OT, but Jesus:

Game of Thrones' Sean Bean Stabbed in Bar Brawl

[QuickTidal]

Ceda Cicero, on 14 June 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Slightly OT, but Jesus:

Game of Thrones' Sean Bean Stabbed in Bar Brawl

That's crazy, but holy shit...Sean Bean for the Fucking WIN. Seriously.