[MTS]

Brilliant episode. Best part of it for me?

'I sent two thousand men to their graves today.'

'The bards will sing songs of their sacrifice.'

'Aye...but the dead won't hear them.'

Great acting, Robb's really coming into his own. I'm a bit bemused at why people are toying with completely dropping the series after this (like that crazy reviewer upthread) though. Ned's a main character, sure, but he's not the main character, since there isn't one. There's Jon, there's Arya, there's Robb and Cat, Tyrion, even Dany if you aren't annoyed by her.

Besides, anyone who expected Sean Bean to live very long just doesn't know the kind of the characters Sean Bean regularly plays.

I did like this comment though:
'ned was alive at some point? seems like ancient history.'

[Ceda Cicero]

I'm not overly concerned by the possibility of people dropping off now that Ned/Sean Bean's gone. Plenty will rail this week about it but what are the chances they won't at least peep in on the finale after investing 9 hours (at least) into the first season? And what are the odds that the various developments in that--THE KING IN THE NORTH and the night coming alive with the music of dragons in particular--won't at least pique their interest for season 2?

And @Amph, you're spot on about the people saying they're blowing of GoT for Entourage and Rescue Me. It's funny in the case of Entourage especially because I think the main character (Vince) eating it at the end of the first season would be one of a bare few things that could possibly get my invested in the show.

Edit: Also, as predicted, the bitching about the battles has started heating up over at Westeros, with varying degrees of rage. Most people are thinking that the lack of full-scale battles in season 1 does not bode well for some of the more important battles in season 2 and 3, namely the Blackwater. To that I would say this is just season 1, and budgets change. I'd point to Rome as evidence of this. In season one of Rome the decisive battle between Caesar and Pompey, the biggest of the season, was a complete blur, which infuriated many fans. There were no epic clashes in season one. In season two, we got Philippi, which was off the chain.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 13 June 2011 - 12:17 PM

[Gothos]

It kinda looks like the five phases of grief to me, tbh. Denial, anger and whatnot. If people get this, well, good writing.

[Ceda Cicero]

Fucking loved this moment. It was poignant and well-acted enough so that it compensated for the lack of Whispering Woods action:

[amphibian]

Ceda Cicero, on 13 June 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'm not overly concerned by the possibility of people dropping off now that Ned/Sean Bean's gone. Plenty will rail this week about it but what are the chances they won't at least peep in on the finale after investing 9 hours (at least) into the first season? And what are the odds that the various developments in that--THE KING IN THE NORTH and the night coming alive with the music of dragons in particular--won't at least pique their interest for season 2?

And @Amph, you're spot on about the people saying they're blowing of GoT for Entourage and Rescue Me. It's funny in the case of Entourage especially because I think the main character (Vince) eating it at the end of the first season would be one of a bare few things that could possibly get my invested in the show.

Edit: Also, as predicted, the bitching about the battles has started heating up over at Westeros, with varying degrees of rage. Most people are thinking that the lack of full-scale battles in season 1 does not bode well for some of the more important battles in season 2 and 3, namely the Blackwater. To that I would say this is just season 1, and budgets change. I'd point to Rome as evidence of this. In season one of Rome the decisive battle between Caesar and Pompey, the biggest of the season, was a complete blur, which infuriated many fans. There were no epic clashes in season one. In season two, we got Philippi, which was off the chain.

I wanna highlight your post because you do a great job of showing the tightrope the TV writers have to deal with. On one hand, they have to set up a dramatic twist that assuredly pissed off the casuals in a way that left them pissed, but still willing to come back and bring their friends in with them, and on the other side, the hardcores are yelling for expensive ass battles for basically fan-service.

Guess which audience provides the bucks for the show to continue? Firefly and Serenity are beloved by hardcores, but neither ever made enough money for sequels to be financially feasible for the number crunchers who hold the moneybags. I think the writers made the right choice here and that this show has a great chance of getting to Seasons 3 and 4 carrying strong momentum with this kind of logic at work.

Next season's season-ending battle of King's Landing should be badass anyways.

[QuickTidal]

I think what will be most interesting will be all these people who are baying for Jaimie Lannisters blood, having only seen this on TV (not read the books) is the transformation he goes through by AFFC and how they will have to flip their viewing mask around and see him in a different light.

I also think people are going to spend ALL next season praying for Joffrey's death and will be as pissed as I was that he doesn't eat it till the end of book 3. LOL

I don't think everyone will stop watching. The most discerning TV viewer will see this as what it is, an act that actually solidifies the sides in the war and gives the Stark side some sort of vengeance to reach for, especially considering that most of his kids are NOT as rigidly honor-bound as he was, giving them a chance in this world of vicious, throat-slitting politicking.

Of course in my head it's Arya that will do the final deeds. Woot, go Arya!

[King Bear]

worrywort, on 13 June 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Did you get those quotes from imdb or something? They're braindead stupid.

They're by readers of a blog post, itself positive, about the episode.

My favourite comment brutally chastised ASoI&F fans as 'idiots' for thinking themselves so 'mature.' Clearly, Ned was killed off purely as a cheap trick to shock readers/viewers. Yes, the series has grit, but it's gratuitous and shallow grit. In the end, ASoI&F is easily as puerile and shit as Harry Potter and Twilight (Yes, he put Martin on the same level as Stephanie Meyer.) We should accordingly drop fantasy and read some REAL fiction, like Joyce. I'm getting sick of this high-brow literary 'elite' talking down to sci-fi and fantasy fans from a position of entrenched and flat-out blind prejudice, not understanding at all the books they criticise.

[QuickTidal]

Future Warrior, on 13 June 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

worrywort, on 13 June 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Did you get those quotes from imdb or something? They're braindead stupid.

They're by readers of a blog post, itself positive, about the episode.

My favourite comment brutally chastised ASoI&F fans as 'idiots' for thinking themselves so 'mature.' Clearly, Ned was killed off purely as a cheap trick to shock readers/viewers. Yes, the series has grit, but it's gratuitous and shallow grit. In the end, ASoI&F is easily as puerile and shit as Harry Potter and Twilight (Yes, he put Martin on the same level as Stephanie Meyer.) We should accordingly drop fantasy and read some REAL fiction, like Joyce. I'm getting sick of this high-brow literary 'elite' talking down to sci-fi and fantasy fans from a position of entrenched and flat-out blind prejudice, not understanding at all the books they criticise.

Yeah, I've gotten into some heated arguments with people who ONLY read contempt lit, and classics and then piss all over me for being into Fantasy and sci-fi, which they claim as silly children's books about stuff that's not real.

Seriously, the number one argument I get form people AGAINST reading fantasy or sci-fi is "Why would read something so ridiculously fake, why don't you read soemthing more realistic." I'm not shitting you, I've heard that more than once. Like we don't read for entertainment or something. It riles me right the hell up to have someone come at me like that.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I guess the people who are pissed that Sean Bean died also hated the LotR movies.

[MTS]

I've never understood everyone's fascination with Joyce as a great writer. Nabokov I can understand, I think he's one of the most gifted writers in the English language, but Ulysses was very boring I thought, and often a little pretentious and self-indulgent. Not 'good fiction' by any stretch of my imagination (which is the actual comment he made, not 'real fiction' I believe).

Nevertheless, the man/woman obviously hasn't read the series, and is merely judging the event in the books from the TV adaptation, which at the time seemed to be made purely for the shock value. I doubt he/she would have read Harry Potter, and I can certainly say he/she hasn't picked up a Twilight novel. Sadly, this position of 'superior ignorance' looks to continue until the impression of fantasy changes to something less juvenile than D&D-esque sword-and-sorcery adventures.

[Abyss]

EP 9.... Oh yeah, that's the high end TV i like to see!

Upthread has nailed most of my points, but a few to add...

There was a massive amount of subtlety in this ep... a surprisingly high amount of 'show don't tell' and trusting the viewer to get it...



Jon and Aemon's chat never quite goes to hammering the viewer with the parallel between them, nor to acknowledgement that leaving the Wall to help your family guaranteed death.

The younger Night Watch all knowing about Jon's sword even before Jon showed up, and wanting to see it like a bunch of little kids.

The fact that Jon got the sword that was intended for Jorah.

Jorah beating the horselord by essentially catching his sword... that fight was REALLY well done.

Jorah's complete support for Dany.

Tyrion's near complete discomfort with everything war related by how he is trying SO hard to be a warrior even so. The bit where he gets taken out by one of his Hillmen's hammer was hysterical.

Tyrion and Shae do have excellent chemistry. The drinking game, for five or so minutes of talking head-infodump, was very well done.

Cat's face when Robb rides back was brilliant.

Arya running towards Ned with her hand on Needle. You know she has no idea what she's going to do but she's going anyways. Yoren stopping her was a relief and heartbreaking at the same time.

Sansa's face going from almost smug pride at having saved her father to disbelief at what was happening.

Varys and Ned's chat, esp Varys really wanting to see Ned live....

Jaime and Robb's face-off at the end was PURE AWESOME. "if we did this your way you would win. But I'm not doing this your way." Oh. YEAH.



If i were going to nitpick, it's that the scene with everyone outside Drogo's tent while crazy voices are happening inside was a bit 'cheap sfx', but Jorah's fight made up for it.

And Ned's death... it's funny... at least three non-book fans have told me they don't actually think he's dead. They're expecting the classic tv 'start the next ep just as the blade falls and stop it' move. Heh.

But anyone dumping the show because Ned's Dead wasn't getting it. I'm relatively sure enough people will come TO the show when those who love it rave about hw great ep 9 is to cover the difference. At least until the end of season 3...


...so all in all great ep.
Am really, really looking forward to ep 10, even if it is the season finale.

[Gothos]

oh my but is Shae hot.

[Gothos]

Further: holy shit.

I knew what was going to happen. I remembered. I thought I was ready.

Still, Joffrey's betrayal and the beheading shook me to the core. It's all old news to me, but the raging injustice of that scene rivals Coltaine's Fall.

This post has been edited by Gothos: 13 June 2011 - 04:37 PM

[Tapper]

Loved it. I'm not sure if showing the decapitation now instead of ending the ep just after Joffrey's speech and thus leaving it as a cliffhanger for ep 10 was smart from a publicity PoV. Non-readers may turn away, after all, and with Yoren there they might have hinted at a rescue.

Also, didn't Robb send the entire infantry instead of just 2k men against Tywin in the books?
Cat was epic in this episode. First time I liked the actress (and Cat herself). The Late Lord Frey was suitably awesome, as was Aeron's coming out.
I had no beef whatsoever with the battles being off-screen. Jaime was pretty cool being defiant and all when he had just lost, and on the risk of agreeing with Tyr at anything surrounding Bronn (): he stole the show. Shae being foreign... unexpected. I liked the drinking game.

Dany's part with Mirri Mazdur was cringeworthy in its naivety but then I had that in the books, too. Her magic with all that shouting in the tent was some serious freaky shit, really liked that. It is also the first time the series actually shows magic at work, outside of the bloodweeping trees. I liked Jorah being bad ass, also liked how the bloodrider nearly decapitated him. Nice build-up in tension with the war of succession of Drogo already being foreshawdowed.

Now, show us Stannis, dammit.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 13 June 2011 - 04:49 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

This is a pretty short read with a nice, objective analysis and hypothesis regarding the "loop," particularly in terms of how it could effect the show commercially.

[Abyss]

I agree with that MacLeans article, and tend to think that letting the dead Ned happen actually sends the message, VERY effectively, to the non-book readers, that this is a show where no one is safe and anything goes. I'd guess that's actually going to be a huge draw by season 2, because it is so un-tv to kill your heroes, and especially not because the actor got a lead roll in CSI, but because the story calls for it.



As for the battles, I believe that in the books Robb did take Jaime with just the cavalry, but this still worked, even if one does have to overlook the obvious flaw that an army of 2000 looks nothing like an army of 20,000 and someone on the Lannister side should have noticed that 95% of the North's army was absent... kind of like how no army posts guards, scouts, skrimishers or watches what's going on elsewhere, but that's me picking nits. ew.

[Abyss]

As an aside, i wonder how many non-reader viewers (NRVs!) went looking for book spoilers online after this and proceeded to truly freak out at what's to come...

[Ceda Cicero]

Abyss, on 13 June 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

As an aside, i wonder how many non-reader viewers (NRVs!) went looking for book spoilers online after this and proceeded to truly freak out at what's to come...

Seriously man. I have seen dozens of "OMG THAT SUCKS BUT NOW ROBB WILL AVENGE IT AND KILL EVERYONE!" ::WINCEFEST::

[Abyss]

Ceda Cicero, on 13 June 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

Abyss, on 13 June 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

As an aside, i wonder how many non-reader viewers (NRVs!) went looking for book spoilers online after this and proceeded to truly freak out at what's to come...

Seriously man. I have seen dozens of "OMG THAT SUCKS BUT NOW ROBB WILL AVENGE IT AND KILL EVERYONE!" ::WINCEFEST::

heh... See also:

"Don't worry, Cat will keep Robb alive!" and,
"Drogo/Dany's son is gonna be awesome!!!"

[Ceda Cicero]

Westeros irritates me, I have to stop popping in over there. Tons of "hardcore" book fans just eviscerating the show because they are too wrapped up in their enthusiasm for GRRM's writing to fully grasp the idea of an ADAPTATION.