[Tyr]

Lets all be honest here. Bronn is going to carry this series. People are going to demand more Bronn on-screen, and when HBO cannot provide that, worldwide riots will take place. GRRM will find himself a bunker, drop the ASOIAF storyline and start smashing out "The Chronicles of Bronn" with the first book "Humble Beginnings" and pumps out 5 thousand page books of Bronn, from sellsword, to God.

After that, world peace ensues. As well as perfecting gene therapy.

Basically, I want more Bronn.

[Traveller]

Good start, I reckon. Tyrion already takes top spot imo, which is as it should be.

Cersei is a little less glam on screen than I read it, and also the scene Bran interrupts was a little different which also slightly changes her, but really I think anyone who has read these in the past (including all those waiting somehwta impatiently for DoD) will have had their interest reawakened by this.

I saw the pre-show interview with ol' George - I have to forgive him for taking so long with his writing; his description of how he writes (a 'gardener' rather than an 'architect') does make it harder for him to reach the satisfactory conclusion he wants for the series.

[Cyphon]

I think the first and last scene of the episode had a slightly different emphasis to that of the books. I think the reason for that is probably it was a bit harder to translate from book to TV.

Ie for the first scene, I prefered the way the book did it. With Royce scarily rising from the dead and with the hardened Nightwatchman running south to show that despite his experience he was afraid, then we wouldn't of had to have Benjen talking to Ned about it (Although it did show Ned's softer side, and reinforced the issue of the man doing the judgement passing the sentence). This way allowed sympathy from the audience for the younger guy, and that additional scene with Benjen.

As for Jaime, doing it in a sorrowful could cause misinterpretation. Giving a perspective that Jaime was sorrowful about directly killing the child, I dont think he ever feels remorse for this bar in the consequences, whereas in the books I translated it as sorrow about this being his love, and the first kind of crack that leads to

Spoiler

Jaime and Cersei's distancing in later books. Also opening up the way for Brienne.

[Tapper]

I posted this elsewhere, but:

I thought that was pretty much awesome, especially for a first episode. I'm particularly impressed with the kids they chose for the various roles. Arya was particularly amusing in her mannerisms and I think I will dislike Sansa a whole lot less than I do in the books - she's one of the PoVs I usually scan through. Geoffrey is perfectly cast, too. Caithlin Stark was homelier than I pictured her... she'd have been a better Lisa, I think.

Daenerys... one of my favorite PoVs and I won't mind seeing this particular actress for the next couple of seasons.

Quote

Was I the only one thinking that Dany looks like a vaguely normal woman as opposed to various stereotypes.

No. Emilia Clarke is a pretty girl, but it is very obvious her hair is bleached white, they might have wanted to cast a lighter blonde instead of her. Besides, she's very pretty but not staggeringly beautiful. As a result, yeah, she looks a bit more mundane than the Dany in the books does.

Regarding missionary: in the book, Drogo does take her from behind, iirc. Probably something to do with mating the same way horses do, or something. I can't recall how it happened with Cersei and Jaime, but I think the camera angle for them both to be able to spot Bran and get a good shot of both their faces staring at him where he was sitting in that window, required something like this. Besides, in a dusty tower filled with weeds and splinters, would you lie on your back?

Thirdly, Cersei is a cold bitch, but to say she would regard doggy as submissive and therefore not do it... nah. Maybe not with Robert.

Not to mention that missionary is the Hollywood fave position where moonlight plays with the curves of her body and emphasizes the sculpted muscles of his (blablabla), whereas this was meant to look like an unglamorously quick and dirty fuck.
And finally.... missionary is fun and intimate, but to say it is the alpha and omega of sex, no, I would not accord it that status.

[Mott]

I enjoyed the first episode although it definitely has a very strong set up feel to it. The casting was brilliant, actors with barely any lines still came across as strongly as some that had the spotlight on them and the children were fantastic, espcially Arya, one of my favourite characters from the book. Theon actually was excellent, you already get the feeling hes a bit of an arse. I am gaining a new appreciation for Robb.

The wall looked fantastic and the opening was chilling, the way the wildling bodies were placed, the girl, the intestines in the snow.

Tyrion was great, witty with a hint of bitterness and vulnerability. Cersei seemed rather gentle and emotional, I was expecting her to have a lot more bite from the get go. Jaime was excellent, I wasn't sure about the look of the character but he came across just right. King Robert was amazing, bold, brash with a certain kind of warmth, perfect performance.

Viserys was creepy as hell and there seemed to be an implied threat in everything he said and did. Dany was good and I actually think the actress is really pretty hair-colour aside. She certainly came across as young and frightened, in her brothers shadow and yearning for her 'home'. One of the complaints I have is the way her and Drogo's wedding scene played out. It cut away without really showing anything happening but you get the definite feeling it was non-consensual whereas I remember the scene in the book having Dany relax because Drogo was being kind and gentle with her which lead to her great love of him. Still maybe they have developed this further in another episode.

Looking forward to next week and hopefully Littlefinger's introduction.

[Jahdu]

Cyphon, on 19 April 2011 - 08:54 AM, said:

As for Jaime, doing it in a sorrowful could cause misinterpretation. Giving a perspective that Jaime was sorrowful about directly killing the child, I dont think he ever feels remorse for this bar in the consequences, whereas in the books I translated it as sorrow about this being his love, and the first kind of crack that leads to

Spoiler

Jaime and Cersei's distancing in later books. Also opening up the way for Brienne.

Agreed with you that Jaime doesn't feel any remorse about attempting to kill Bran. What I meant about him being sorrowful was that he's put in
a position where he has to do that thus delivering the line "the things I do for love". I dunno, I just didn't like the way the line was
delivered. For me it was one of the stand out scenes in the book and that was one of the stand out lines. The TV show just didn't capture it
that way for me. Maybe if the actor has sighed before hand and then delivered the line a bit slower it might have made more of an impact.

That's just me though... maybe I'm just being too picky about it hehe

[Ulrik]

btw - one reason why is the series good (well, first two episodes) - my wife didnt read the books and was completely chained by series. Hell, if this isnt another important step in movie fantasy...what could be?

[Cyphon]

I thought Viserys came off really well acted, as the incredibly naive blinkered character he is.

Also, we only know the bit of the wedding we (bar Ulrik) saw, lets see what episode 2 has for us. Additional information may be given then to say how it went.

[QuickTidal]

I finally got to watch it last night and was mostly pleased and excited by it. Everyone was good in their roles....but I think Bran and Ned were the standouts for me as they were pitch perfect to their characters in the book. Most of the scenes I dig from the first bit of the book are present (minus Bran's practice-fight with Joffrey) including Tyrion's Bastards talk with Jon which I always enjoyed. Who was that playing Benjen Stark? He looks so much like a cross between Sean Bean and David Thewlis that it isn't even funny, great casting on a bit part!

Also Abyss...I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the spot on badassery of The Hound's Helmet.

I think the only character who didn't get to show some true depth (yet) was Cersei, but that's cause up till before Bran falls she kind of maintains her air of refined queen, so I'm not concerned.

Also, being that most of us have read the books, I LOVED that last scene for Jaime's brief moment of conflict at Bran being only a ten year old boy...and then of course his incestuous love for his sister wins out and he pushes Bran. There was this slight look in his eyes just ahead of time that spoke volumes of his characters later greyness. LOVED that.

The credit sequence was really gorgeous. Little attention to detail like on the metal band that swivels around to reveal the title...anyone else notice on the o9ther side of that band is a lion standing patiently in front of a stag? Nice touch that.

Yeah, Harry Loydd (who was previously on Doctor Who series 3 as a creepy ass body snatched prep school boy) was creepy, nasty and perfect as Viserys..and it makes me kind of can't wait for his big scene later on. hehe.

Daenerys was great, though I think she needs to grow a little to become that role as it requires so much. Seems like she'll be up to the job.

I don't think we've seen enough of Khal Drogo yet to make any big assumptions, but I like the LOOK of all the Dothraki a lot already, so that's a good sign.

The Wall, The Walkers, The Rangers....ALL awesome. Loved every second of the opening. Royce was as much of a dick as he is in the book. LOL!

Overall, the episode was pretty damn good, though I will agree with earlier sentiments about a script explaining a brief history would be helpful.

[Slow Ben]

I dont have HBO so I just wanted to stop by and tell you all I hate you!

[Ulrik]

Cyphon, on 19 April 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

Also, we only know the bit of the wedding we (bar Ulrik) saw, lets see what episode 2 has for us. Additional information may be given then to say how it went.

If you meant me (Im tired:)) there is what happens in Episode 2. Beware, Im posting whole Episode 2, so read only if you read the book and dont mind knowing how episode continues.

Spoiler

Bran is in coma whole episode. Tyrion slaps Jeoffrey three times, nice. Jon leaves to Wall with Benjen and Tyrion (no Tarly so far), scene where Catelyn shows how she hates him included. Before leaving, he gives Arya Needle. Robert and Ned talks about Daenerys and times when whores were only important thing...well, Robert holds this part, its exact copy dialogue from book. Attempt to assassination of Bran. Jeoffrey tries to show balls to Sansa, get beaten by Arya and Nymeria. Hound kills butcher´s son, Cersei wants dead direwolf and it comes to Lady. Ned killing Lady is final and its emotionally brutal. Really. Daenerys get doggystyle few times and after that, her maiden learns her how to mount Drogo:) And there are few flashes of Mormont, Viserys and side characters. Tyrion got few nice lines from book and Jaime is beutifully arrogant and still kind to Tyrion. Ooooh and first time is shown Ilyn Payne, too short for my taste, but...

[McLovin]

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love" he does so in
a kind of whistful, sorrowful manner. In the TV episode the way the actor said that line
(and to me it was quite an important line in context of the story), it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

[QuickTidal]

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love" he does so in
a kind of whistful, sorrowful manner. In the TV episode the way the actor said that line
(and to me it was quite an important line in context of the story), it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

See, I disagree. On a re-read of AGOT (and considering things down the road), that line comes across more like it did (to me at least) in the TV show. I fully think it is meant to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave. I don't feel that Jaime is an insincere prick when we meet him, he's just an idiot in love with his own sister. He has valor and some speckling of honour at this point, but it all gets trumped into the gutter by his love of Cersei. He's also been raised by a total unrelenting prick...Tywin Lannister is the real vicious shit here...and both his sons have had a tough time moving away from that I think...Cersei always embraced his teachings. It's why Tywin wishes Cersei was a boy.

Of course I didn't get this till I started re-reading it, but Jaime and Tyrion are actually the result of piss-poor parenting.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 April 2011 - 02:02 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love" he does so in
a kind of whistful, sorrowful manner. In the TV episode the way the actor said that line
(and to me it was quite an important line in context of the story), it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

In the book, he's described as having an expression of disgust on his face just before he shoves Bran. Which I thought I saw a hint of on the actor's face. As I've always read the scene, though, his momentary disgust at coming to terms with what he has to do is overcome by the time he actually utters "the things I do for love," which again I thought was reflected nicely in the show.

Spoilers for later ASoIaF books below...

Spoiler

My take is, at this point in the story, Jaime is - while not wholly without conscience (we can assume, but don't really know since we don't get his PoV until book 3) - pretty easily able to bury his own self-loathing and guilt and shame because he dresses it up with concepts of duty to his family. It's not until later that he realizes things don't work that way, first by meeting Brienne and having to redefine his conceptions of honor and duty, and second by realizing that his family (namely Tywin and Cersei) hardly merit that kind of justification.

Anyway, I digress. I did think the scene was well done, but I won't be surprised if the show makes it to season 3 and viewers who haven't read the books start expressing confusion and general discomfort when Jaime starts along a different path.

This post has been edited by Neocount Cicero: 19 April 2011 - 02:02 PM

[QuickTidal]

Neocount Cicero, on 19 April 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love" he does so in
a kind of whistful, sorrowful manner. In the TV episode the way the actor said that line
(and to me it was quite an important line in context of the story), it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

In the book, he's described as having an expression of disgust on his face just before he shoves Bran. Which I thought I saw a hint of on the actor's face. As I've always read the scene, though, his momentary disgust at coming to terms with what he has to do is overcome by the time he actually utters "the things I do for love," which again I thought was reflected nicely in the show.

Spoilers for later ASoIaF books below...

Spoiler

My take is, at this point in the story, Jaime is - while not wholly without conscience (we can assume, but don't really know since we don't get his PoV until book 3) - pretty easily able to bury his own self-loathing and guilt and shame because he dresses it up with concepts of duty to his family. It's not until later that he realizes things don't work that way, first by meeting Brienne and having to redefine his conceptions of honor and duty, and second by realizing that his family (namely Tywin and Cersei) hardly merit that kind of justification.

Anyway, I digress. I did think the scene was well done, but I won't be surprised if the show makes it to season 3 and viewers who haven't read the books start expressing confusion and general discomfort when Jaime starts along a different path.

Yeah, I agree with your statements about Jaime too. I think it will be interesting to watch the "casual viewer" have to re-interpret their views of Jaime as he changes.

[Cyphon]

This is the essential problem for TV, translating non verbal/physical ideas into TV. Which is where they always struggle, and might have to change up the story. I expect this kind of thing is where we'll see the biggest changes.

[Abyss]

Ulrik, on 18 April 2011 - 10:38 PM, said:

Journalist special premiere...

BRAINZ!

Cyphon, on 18 April 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

...Also, Jon Snow is yet to develop into the Suvudu esque powerhouse he will become.

BOOK SPOILERS btw, but no need for blocks in this thread...

Interesting things about Jon... suduvu aside, he never really becomes a 'powerhouse', which is part of why i like him. Solid swordsman with a badass pet, yes. But he's not Rand by a longshot.

D, on 19 April 2011 - 01:19 AM, said:

Cyphon, on 18 April 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

Was I the only one thinking that Dany looks like a vaguely normal woman as opposed to various stereotypes.

Well the Dothraki are apparently now composed of every skin tone from sub-saharan-african-dark to greek-with-a-tan, so any stereotyping of her and she'd fit in with them far too well...

Given that they are made of of various tribes, that's not off-side really, even if the root is just lazy mass casting.

Tapper, on 19 April 2011 - 09:37 AM, said:

...And finally.... missionary is fun and intimate, but to say it is the alpha and omega of sex, no, I would not accord it that status.

My point was that ALL the sex seemed to be doggity, but anyways, moving on now...

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

Neocount Cicero, on 19 April 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love"...it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

... I think it will be interesting to watch the "casual viewer" have to re-interpret their views of Jaime as he changes.

I thought it worked. The point isn't so much whether jaime comes across as he did in the book, rather, that his character goes through a similar transition from relatively amoral self-absorbed sisterfucker to generally noble conflicted dude.

The actor did a solid job so far. i liked his exchange with Ned at the feast... "If i'm going to fight a man, i don't like him to know what i can do!" in yoah FACE kinslayer!

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Abyss, on 20 April 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

[

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

Neocount Cicero, on 19 April 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love"...it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

... I think it will be interesting to watch the "casual viewer" have to re-interpret their views of Jaime as he changes.

I thought it worked. The point isn't so much whether jaime comes across as he did in the book, rather, that his character goes through a similar transition from relatively amoral self-absorbed sisterfucker to generally noble conflicted dude.

The actor did a solid job so far. i liked his exchange with Ned at the feast... "If i'm going to fight a man, i don't like him to know what i can do!" in yoah FACE kinslayer!

Yeah right. As if Ned would ever have had a chance against Jaime.

Anyway, I agree. I really liked the actor that did Jaime, he was easily my favorite.

[Ceda Cicero]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 20 April 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Abyss, on 20 April 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

[

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

Neocount Cicero, on 19 April 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

McLovin, on 19 April 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Jahdu, on 19 April 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

When I read it, in my minds eye, when Jaime says "The things I do for love"...it just didn't come
across with the gravity I expected.

I don't think that line was ever supposed to be wistful, sorrowful, or grave, even in the book. It was supposed to be flippant. When we first meet him, Jaime is an insincere prick.

... I think it will be interesting to watch the "casual viewer" have to re-interpret their views of Jaime as he changes.

I thought it worked. The point isn't so much whether jaime comes across as he did in the book, rather, that his character goes through a similar transition from relatively amoral self-absorbed sisterfucker to generally noble conflicted dude.

The actor did a solid job so far. i liked his exchange with Ned at the feast... "If i'm going to fight a man, i don't like him to know what i can do!" in yoah FACE kinslayer!

Yeah right. As if Ned would ever have had a chance against Jaime.

Anyway, I agree. I really liked the actor that did Jaime, he was easily my favorite.

Ned took on Arthur Dayne the Sword of the f*cking Morning (who Jaime idolized and held in awe as a squire) along with Oswell Went AND Gerold Hightower, the Commander of Aerys's Kingsguard, to boot. Granted, Howland Reed was with him and by all accounts, Reed is fantastically badass in his own right. But in a match between Ned and Jaime - all things being equal, ie: Ned being younger and Jaime having his sword hand - I wouldn't sneeze at Ned's chances one bit.

This post has been edited by Neocount Cicero: 20 April 2011 - 03:37 PM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

SPOILERS!SPOILERS!

At the Tower of Joy they were 7 vs 3. Only two remained. And Bran recalls Ned telling him that Howland Reed saved his life. This seems to mean that Dayne was winning until Reed intervened.