[Black Winged Lord]

Hey all,
just wondering if anyone has any theories on where Reverance and the other pures came from?

When kalyth is updating Gesler and co on what happened in Kolanse (i think its right at the start of book 2), she mentions that they arrived about 50-60 years ago from the "wretched coast" or something along those lines.
I know at least Calm and Serenity came from elsewhere, but the rest of them??

[Sinisdar Toste]

the wretched coast sounds similar to the wreckers coast, on northern assail, though this is a tenuous connection at best. hopefully this will become more clear in later novels.

[Abyss]

We know Serenity was imprisoned in a cave on Leth, freed, tossed down a pit by demons and then peed on but apparently he got better.

Calm was stuck under a rock on Genabackis, freed and made her way to Reverance and the others collecting her dead relatives along the way.

We don't actually know whether Calm and Serenity reached Kolanse before or after Reverance and co conquered it, tho it would seem likely.

[nacht]

What about the Assail in Kurald Liosan who was taken care of by Yedan.
At that time, I thought the Liosan were allied with the Assail but didn't see any such connection in tCG.

[nacht]

Quote

So they were foreginers? Gesler asked.
Yes. From somewhere called the Wretched Coast. All I have heard of this is second-hand. They arrived in ships of bone. The Spire was unoccupied -- who would choose to live on cursed land? And to begin with there was but one ship, crewed by slaves, and twelve or thirteen priests and priestesses.

Quote

'Fifty, sixty years ago. The Adjudicators scoured out all the other priesthoods. More and more of their own followers arrived, season after season. The Watered, they were called. Those with human blood in them. Those first twelve or so, they were the Pures.

Quote

But, Sister Reverence, then I look into your ancient eyes, and I see how the hunger of our allies has infected you. The Tiste Liosan, the Eleint, the lord and Lady of the beast Hold -- but all they desire is chaos, anarchy, destruction, the end of the Age of Gods and Age of Humans. Like you, they thirst for blook, but not a little blood. No Oeans, oceans of blood.

Apparently they comingled with humans somewhere (either forcing them or by choice).

[ritchiediaz]

One of the big things that has bothered me regarding the FA is that with their isolationist 'we are the only species that is right, therefore everyone else is wrong' outlook is as follows:-

Why and how would the Shriven & Watered come into being, and why would the Pures permit it?

My initial theory here is that we know that the FA are all about Power and being dominant, therefore the most likely answer is rape and subsequent pregnancy; it's generally accepted that rape is a crime more to do with power & a need to dominate than sexual reasons, so it would fit with the FA's psyche.

What I can't come up with is any reason why any of the Pures that committed a rape would allow the 'unclean' offspring to survive, other than the fact that they needed armies.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

ritchiediaz, on 02 April 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

What I can't come up with is any reason why any of the Pures that committed a rape would allow the 'unclean' offspring to survive, other than the fact that they needed armies.

Given the circumstances, that seems like a good enough reason to me.

[Cyphon]

POOPOO MCBUMFACE, on 02 April 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

ritchiediaz, on 02 April 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

What I can't come up with is any reason why any of the Pures that committed a rape would allow the 'unclean' offspring to survive, other than the fact that they needed armies.

Given the circumstances, that seems like a good enough reason to me.

Love your forum name. Love it.

Plus FA seem to have some forms of utilitarianism to me, except their greatest good is very narrowly racial specific, Ie their own.

All for the greater good!

[Puck]

ritchiediaz, on 02 April 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

Why and how would the Shriven & Watered come into being, and why would the Pures permit it?

They're mostly about their own of justice. To bring that justice they needed power and followers and commanders they could rely upon since the Pures themselves were too few. The FA are also rather pragmatic when it comes to the means of acquiring the power they need, so I don't think - especially considering their powers - rape was in any way necessary. They just commanded everybody into submission, including into breeding half-bloods they could use as loyal commanders.

And any further diluted blood.. well, it's humans we're talking about, and even as an evil overlord you can't control every one of your slaves, and you wouldn't be enclined to when you're in need of more soldiers. The more FA blood, the more loyal, which is even better.

About OP: yeah, I also think they came from Assail.

[worry]

I think Assail is horrible enough that it has both a Wretched Coast AND a Wrecker's Coast.

[Jorram]

Sorry for the topic necromancy but I also got interested into the FA origins issue.

To throw some confusion in, in DoD the children of the Snake speak of a different story:

Quote

And the Quitters came among us, down from the north. They walked like the broken, and when they spoke, souls crumpled like eggshells

Granted, it's children talking and they are not the best at memories; and of course some retconning might have taken place between DoD and TCG but I find it odd that these tales clash. Kalyth and Abrastal speak of the invaders from the sea (and the Wretched Coast), while Badalle's story seems to point to the FA fortress in the north of Kolanse (maybe the one taken over by Paran in TCG). Could it be that two FA groups joined up at the Spire? Or maybe once the sea-borne FA took over Kolanse's capital, the rest just answered the call from wherever they lived.

Lether seems to be the place ancient horrors still live happily, probably due to Gothos' spell, so it's not unlikely that a group of FA survived in the northern mountains of Kolanse as well, apart from those from the Wretched Coast/Assail/unknown piece of rock in the ocean.

[Orlion]

Jorram, on 07 May 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Sorry for the topic necromancy but I also got interested into the FA origins issue.

To throw some confusion in, in DoD the children of the Snake speak of a different story:

Quote

And the Quitters came among us, down from the north. They walked like the broken, and when they spoke, souls crumpled like eggshells

Granted, it's children talking and they are not the best at memories; and of course some retconning might have taken place between DoD and TCG but I find it odd that these tales clash. Kalyth and Abrastal speak of the invaders from the sea (and the Wretched Coast), while Badalle's story seems to point to the FA fortress in the north of Kolanse (maybe the one taken over by Paran in TCG). Could it be that two FA groups joined up at the Spire? Or maybe once the sea-borne FA took over Kolanse's capital, the rest just answered the call from wherever they lived.

Lether seems to be the place ancient horrors still live happily, probably due to Gothos' spell, so it's not unlikely that a group of FA survived in the northern mountains of Kolanse as well, apart from those from the Wretched Coast/Assail/unknown piece of rock in the ocean.

I always assumed that they were speaking of a specific conquest of a specific region. The FA could still have come from the sea, taken over the city, and then move about conquering the rest of Kolanse. But, we also know there are FA pure coming from all over the place... so who knows.

[Jorram]

Right. That sounds totally reasonable. Funny how it didn't occur to me
Thanks

[Sinisdar Toste]

yes, kolanse is where they landed from the sea, imo, because that's where the heart was in the first place. that's what they came for. a small group came ahead to establish diplomatic relations (ie. kill the king and take the fuck over), then the rest showed up, and some time later (decades i believes) they raze and murderlate the southlands, where badalle and the rest are from.

[Kanese S's]

Where are the Forkrul Assail actually from? Assail? It seems odd that they're not in charge of the place, if that's the case. We don't seem to have a lot of info about them, except that they're obsessed with a ridiculously strict and self-serving form of "justice," killed their own god a while back, and generally will murder the shit out of most other sapient species they come across.

[D'rek]

Kanese S, on 07 May 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Where are the Forkrul Assail actually from? Assail? It seems odd that they're not in charge of the place, if that's the case. We don't seem to have a lot of info about them, except that they're obsessed with a ridiculously strict and self-serving form of "justice," killed their own god a while back, and generally will murder the shit out of most other sapient species they come across.

Given that Calm is among them, they don't all come from the same place. Could be they are all random pure FA assembling from around the world (the first of them reaching Kolanse decades past, others arriving more recently like Calm).

[Kanese S's]

But do the FA have a homeland?

[worry]

I could be imagining this, but wasn't it said in one of the books that the FA did have a homeland that involved vast subterranean cities, but that their nature made them self-destructive as a species so they had to spread out across the warrens. Did I just totally imagine that, or does it sound familiar to anyone else?

[Kanese S's]

I don't recall that, but it sounds cool.

[Black Winged Lord]

I remember vaguely, perhaps from Midnight Tides with the edur invasion of lether, someone talking about a pit being excavated that was Forkrul Assail in origin. So subterranean definitely rings a bell.

Was that where Iron Bars gang ran into that guy trying to set himself up as a warlord? Could be way off track.
If that was the case though it may support the idea that the assail split into small enclaves.