[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 01 April 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

Meanwhile, Sun media and others are railing against the CBC vote compass site (that many of us ref upthread) as being biased towards the Libs.

Best bit ran "if voters are wishy washy, the compass tells them they are liberal, because liberals are wishy washy!".

Oh CHARMING. Bloody Sun media.

LOL

[Abyss]

Of course, Sun has a running grudge, at least somewhat valid, against CBC for the ongoing Access to Information fight (as well hating CBC for being more credible, authoritative and less like something Fox News shat out).

[cerveza_fiesta]

Harper sounds more and more disconnected to me every day it's been a week straight of :

blah blah blah blah our economy emerged from the global recession blah blah blah blah blah EVIL COALITION OF SATAN AND THE LIBERALS blah blah blah some more mention of coalition.

Say something meaningful for fuck's sake. It's really annoying that this guy is building a whole campaign on attacking the other parties.

And what's with the "4 questions max and an just 1 local-issues question" marching orders given to the media by harper's staff???? What the fuck...seriously. We're restricted in what and how much we can ask when we're trying to decide if the shitbag is worthy of leading our country.

Still a good leader and an absolute master of the PR game, but Harper is colored all flavours of bad in my mind right now.

[Abyss]

cerveza_fiesta, on 04 April 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

Harper ... this guy is building a whole campaign on attacking the other parties.

But not surprising. The middle and left who were already anti Tory/Harper weren't going to be swayed by any policy or promise he can make, but the undecided voter who can be convinced that a) Iggy is going the Coalition route and b ) this is akin to signing the country over to Stalin, may be swayed.

There's a great big swath of undecided voters this time around and the Tories have decided this is how they're going to scoop up most of them.

And as an added bonus, because Iggy has to keep denying there will be any coalition, Harper has effective;ly denied the Libs this option as a counter to another Tory minority. Layton and the NDP don't care - as usual they will take whatever they can get.

Quote

And what's with the "4 questions max and an just 1 local-issues question" marching orders given to the media by harper's staff???? What the fuck...seriously. ...

Calculated spin control. He figures the fallout from alienating the media (at least the ones who weren't going to support him anyways) is worth the small amount of damage he avoids by controlling the questions.



As annoyed as i am that this is our third go-around in seven years, it's really turning into an interesting race...
The control-heavy Tory for whom a majority is the only option win vs the 'underdog' Lib with nothing to lose.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, even though I can't stand Iggy I'll probably vote Liberal this time. Elizabeth May is just too much of an inept, pushy bitch to get my vote in the green way this year...

Harper is a tit and kind of needs to come down.

[Abyss]

Whenever we get around to (yet) another election, the Greens will be as valid a choice as they are now (ahem), but if i understand correctly, the typical Green voter is anti-Harper/Tory, and the ONLY way to avoid another Tory gov is to send those votes to the Libs.

[RodeoRanch]

You guys just don't understand.


Coalition

Coalition

Coalition

Coalition

COALITION


Now vote Tory or the evil coalition will kill and rape you. In that order.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

RodeoRanch, on 04 April 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

Now vote Tory or the evil coalition will kill and rape you. In that order.

If you're lucky.

[Una]

COALITION!

I'm so afraid that the MPs that we vote in as Canadians might actually try to work together for once?

This is stupid. I'm waiting for these guys to start addressing some real issues.

[Abyss]

Una, on 05 April 2011 - 03:13 AM, said:

COALITION!

I'm so afraid that the MPs that we vote in as Canadians might actually try to work together for once?

This is stupid. I'm waiting for these guys to start addressing some real issues.

You mean like abortion and same-sex marriage? [/IRONY]



I'm wondering whether the Lib promise to fund veteran higher education might not have been going too far. It's a brilliant promise for many reasons and i think it will score huge points with some, but might alienate that chunk of the Lib demographic (and especially the anti-anything-military chunk) who thinks EVERYONE should get help with education, not just returning veterans.

The Tories adult physical fitness subsidy would have been clever except that they tagged on the huge 'once the defecit is gone' qualifier.


As for the Greens... a judicial review of the CRTC regulations that allow the Broadcasters to choose who appears at the debate.... seriously? Seriously??? How about, i dunno, trying to act like an actual political party and focusing on getting their candidates out there. We don't need to see Liz May on TV yelling at Harper alongside Iggy and Jack to know what she stands for.

[QuickTidal]

See, how would the coalition be worse than the Tory's ineptness and social retardation?

I wouldn't vote Tory even if the only other options were Sauron, Vader and Voldemort.

The other thing to remember is that NO ONE...not even the Libs would give the insane asylum that is Jack Layton and the NDP a full pass in such a coalition...it's just a means to an end. If you have to take out the conservative's at this point you need a bigger entity. I don't give a crap how it happens, so long as this ridiculous piecemeal bullshit that we've been living with for more than a few years stops. I'm so tired of the whole minority govt, majority govt chatter. Like what the hell, the system used to work fairly decently and these days it's become a muddy mess....because over the years the parties have sorted out that they can divide us in many more ways than they could in the 1970's, and if we can be so divided as a country then we are willing to let poorer examples of politicians in office to try to exert SOME control over our lives....but that hasn't stopped the Tories from wanting to rule us like tyrant kings, the liberals from pulling see-though wool over our eyes as they rob us blind, and the NDP can swindle people into their party's corner by promising big change and delivering utter madness. It's such a mess that we need to get out of it..back onto solid ground and we can't do that with the Tories. We just can't. The Tories platform is still stuck in the bloody 1950's and there are just too many younger people not willing to conform to such antiquated ideas...but the problem lies in this fact: There is still a HUGE quadrant of baby boomers who still agree with that platform to overule the younger folk who agree with a much more liberal platform...so what do we have? A country that is not only split along those lines, but now the Libs have sullied their name so entirely that there is a huge selection of swing voters...

So either we wait until the baby boomers die out and the country will right itself and the Tory platform will either have to come out of the 1950's....or it will wither and die...

...or we can try to fix it now, by getting ourselves a Liberal party that we CAN get behind, and hopefully get them back in power.

Sorry, I've been anti-Tory all my life.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 April 2011 - 07:03 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

@ Elizabeth may issue

She should probably just drop it and move on cause it'll just be a waste of valuable campaign hours/days, but they're a serious party and to prove you're serious you gotta put up a fight when the MAN tries to stifle you. Otherwise you come off as a passive wimptard that couldn't lead a country through next week, much less lead it through 4 years of various crises and economic recovery.

That and just about every single person I've heard from, both official on TV and radio, and friends in personal life is just kind of like WTF man? Why the hell would they keep her out of the debate? It makes no sense whatsoever.

@ Libs

Get off your asses and start attacking the Tories on the contempt of parliament and prorogation topics. For real. What are you waiting for. H-dawg is not wasting a second with his smear campaign, why should anybody else. "Having some integrity" in this case comes across as "I am a massive wimp". Maybe its all part of the Liberal strategy, to haul out the negative political big guns when the actual vote is a little closer at hand. Who knows? Right now Iggy looks like a wimp for keeping it to himself.

And where are they on the EVIL GOATFUCKING COALITION OF THE DAMNED claims by harper. He's still not dropping it even though everybody else says its BS. They definitely need to come out with some strong statement that puts the issue to bed and makes Harper look like a wanker all at the same time.

[QuickTidal]

cerveza_fiesta, on 05 April 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

@ Libs

Get off your asses and start attacking the Tories on the contempt of parliament and prorogation topics. For real. What are you waiting for. H-dawg is not wasting a second with his smear campaign, why should anybody else. "Having some integrity" in this case comes across as "I am a massive wimp". Maybe its all part of the Liberal strategy, to haul out the negative political big guns when the actual vote is a little closer at hand. Who knows? Right now Iggy looks like a wimp for keeping it to himself.

And where are they on the EVIL GOATFUCKING COALITION OF THE DAMNED claims by harper. He's still not dropping it even though everybody else says its BS. They definitely need to come out with some strong statement that puts the issue to bed and makes Harper look like a wanker all at the same time.

Agreed with everything here. IT's time to deal with bullies the way you have to in school. You don't place the sweet innocent guy, or go to the principle...you punch that fucker right back. Libs need to give the Tory's a nosebleed.

[Abyss]

The NDP can promise whatever they want because they have zero chance of getting into power but every chance of getting a few seats, enough to retain validity at least.

The Greens have no validity. Their one (former indy) MP crossed the floor to join them, mostly to strike at the big parties, and he's gone now. They haven't won a seat yet. For all practical intents and purposes, they are on par with the Communist and the Marijuana parties. You want to play with the big boys, you do the work, and right now i see a lot of indignation and little work. Since the fed court just told them no go (more or less), maybe they'll get on with that.

[McLovin]

Abyss, on 05 April 2011 - 07:16 PM, said:

For all practical intents and purposes, they are on par with the Communist and the Marijuana parties. You want to play with the big boys, you do the work

Hey man! The Marijuana party was like gonna do some work, but like, they got the munchies and you know how hard it is to find those taco-flavored Doritos in Canada, man? So lay off and quit harshing everyone's buzz!

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Abyss, on 05 April 2011 - 02:59 PM, said:

I'm wondering whether the Lib promise to fund veteran higher education might not have been going too far. It's a brilliant promise for many reasons and i think it will score huge points with some, but might alienate that chunk of the Lib demographic (and especially the anti-anything-military chunk) who thinks EVERYONE should get help with education, not just returning veterans.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you already have access to higher education through the military: they pay for your degree, and in return, you give them however many years of service. At the very least, I know one person who did this (well, is doing this--he's serving now). Granted, the time-frames are different (and that makes an important difference in someone's life). That arrangement, at least, seems fair to me. Giving them subsidized access to education after the fact, however, seems like a rather unfair measure--not because everyone should have help with education and education should be free (although I believe both these propositions), but rather because they're not one of the social groups that desperately needs that kind of access, and they're probably not part of the social group that can benefit most from it (which isn't to say they won't benefit or that they don't need it; just that the needs of many others are probably more pressing). And, in fairness, I'm not really down with hero-worshipping military personnel just for doing their job, or granting them all kinds of privileges. But then, that's my bias.

Quote

The Tories adult physical fitness subsidy would have been clever except that they tagged on the huge 'once the defecit is gone' qualifier.

Agreed with one small caveat: it would have been clever if $75 was more than the cost of one month's access to a gym (and it's probably unfair to allow people with subsidized gym access--e.g. university students--to claim the credit, too), or if $150 could put a dent in the cost of a child's equipment for most sports. So, even without the deficit-caveat, it's still a promise to do essentially nothing. Just like what we got instead of a national daycare policy (you guessed it, another small chunk of change that couldn't dent childcare costs!).

This post has been edited by Goaswerfraiejen: 05 April 2011 - 10:35 PM

[RodeoRanch]

This vastly irritates me. I find my dislike of the Harper Tories increasingly turning into outright contempt and anger.

I actually voted for the Tories back in 2006. I was genuinely upset with the Liberal scandals and did the typical Canadian action of voting a party out more than voting a party in.

I don't regret using my vote for turfing the Libs over those scandals. Yet now I really hope that Harper does not get re-elected, much less receives a majority.

I voted NDP in the last election but will vote Liberal in this one. The local Liberal candidate is a recently retired provincial judge and a man of great personal integrity. I actually feel somewhat excited about voting for him, which is an oddity in my experience!

[Blend]

I'm a closet half-Conservative. That is to say, I like much of the Conservative platform, and I like much of what Harper's done to run our country in the last few years, but I can't and won't vote Conservative simply because of their social platform and history - I can't vote for the party that fought same-sex marriage tooth and nail, or the party that put aboriginal affairs back years in one move, and I could prolly pull a few more examples outta my ass, but I'm sure you get the point.... So, I vote Green, and have voted Green for the last two elections, and will probably vote Green again this election.

NDP should never actually be in power, they'd put our country in ridiculous amounts of debt in no time... Liberals are just douche-bags with some sense of entitlement I never quite understood.... and the Conservatives are a bunch of socially inept economists - it's thanks in large part to them that we as a country made it through the financial crisis fairlyc omfortably and stuff, so I trust them with my tax dollars more than I would anyone else. I am a firm believer that the Bloc should not be allowed in Federal elections, seeing as they are clearly a provincial party running for federal elections... It's dumb that we allow that. Green party, albeit still struggling to get a foothold, has potential to be a great party, so I'm willing to throw away my vote to give them the money they'll get from that to work on their next campaign and hopefully continue to grow, and eventually have a respectable presence in parliament.

I don't believe we'll actually end up with a Conservative majority, but honestly, I don't think it would be the worst thing ever for Canada. Our political landscape has pretty much always swung back and forth between Liberals and Conservatives, and truthfully, having a majority government means shit will get done. I realize that Harper having a minority puts some stops on his shittier ideas, but I don't think that those shittier ideas will 'ruin' Canada, or hurt it overmuch. Anyway, if they get it, we have to deal with four years of being a Conservative Canada, but that's just four years. At least we wouldn't have to spend another $300Million on running another damn election within that time, and the Conservatives would be able to actually get shit done without having to worry about pandering to one of the other parties in order to ensure their shit passes.

I think it's too bad that Lizzie May isn't being allowed at the debates, and completely douchey. I think it'd be fun to watch the other party leaders flounder as she skated circles around them. I remember watching the debate she WAS allowed to be a part of, and she basically threw them all to the ground, scraped their faces through gravel, and then stamped on the wounds with her dirty boots - it's no wonder the leaders don't want her there, she'd just make them all look like idiots.

I'm 27 years old & make $60K a year working as a Federal Public Servant in Ottawa - for that person upthread who was interested in the demographics.

This post has been edited by Blend: 06 April 2011 - 02:10 PM

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I won't take issue with your judgements, even if I think they're dead wrong and grossly unfair, but this I can't let go:

Blend, on 06 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

Liberals are just douche-bags with some sense of entitlement I never quite understood.... and the Conservatives are a bunch of socially inept economists - it's thanks in large part to them that we as a country made it through the financial crisis fairlyc omfortably and stuff, so I trust them with my tax dollars more than I would anyone else.

If you're 27, then you're old enough to remember the Tory response to the financial crisis: "there is no crisis". If they engaged in stimulus spending (incredibly late in the game) and helped to bail out the automakers, it was only because the other three parties--and the public--demanded it and threatened an election otherwise. After a couple weeks of stonewalling, they caved in. Flaherty couldn't get his numbers right, and Harper wanted us to buy up as many stocks as possible. They were singularly out of touch--living in Ottawa, I'm surprised that you don't remember any of this. Every day brought a new round of frustration with the Tory economic policy (or, rather, lack thereof).

More importantly, however, the fact that the country weathered the recession fairly well has nothing to do with policies implemented during those two years of Tory power, and a whole hell of a lot to do with policies they didn't enact, and policies that were enacted by the Chrétien and Martin governments. While governments in power tend to take the blame/credit for economic woe or joy, the reality is that they almost never affect their economies immediately--rather, they inherit the problems/boons created by previous governments. When the Liberals came into power in 1993, we had a third-world debtload; 1/3 tax dollars serviced the debt. We hit the ground running in 2008 because we'd paid off our debt, and because our banks hadn't merged. Under the Liberals, our corporate and personal income taxes went down, the GST was brought in (massive federal revenue stream), provincial transfers were cut, the banks were not allowed to merge (despite a strong desire to do so on their part), and EI started racking up massive surpluses. These are the reason why we weathered the recession better than the US and Europe: we started from a much better position. If you think the Tories did anything significant to avert economic disaster, I challenge you to post what that is.

[cerveza_fiesta]

^^ What he said.

Much better said than what I was going to write though.