[Goaswerfraiejen]

cerveza_fiesta, on 13 April 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

[list][*]Duceppe, predictably came off looking like a tard, especially when he was going on and on about how multiculturalism doesn't work for Quebec. WTF....seriously dude?

I dunno WTF that was all about--it was a real turn-off for me. And actually, to be fair to Harper, his response to Duceppe on that topic was actually bang-on and worth repeating. We are probably the most successful multicultural country in the world, and the rest of Canada (broadly construed--there are some morons who disagree) understands that multiculturalism doesn't mean sacrificing your national identity. Québec doesn't need to be a melting pot to preserve its unique language, culture, and identity.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Many of you have probably already seen this, but it's worth pointing all eligible voters in its direction: Shit Harper Did is an amusing catalogue of the Harper government's abysmal track record, complete with sources.

[Shinrei]

First of all, I have to say that I should receive extreme praise and adulation over the fact I have actually restrained myself this entire time, from coming into this thread and making fun of Canada...

And second, now that I have actually arrived I hope I'm actually contributing something productive. I thought this was pretty good (and not just for Canada)

http://www.ted.com/t..._to_apathy.html










canada thinks they have politics - aren't they cute?

[RodeoRanch]

Shinrei, on 14 April 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

First of all, I have to say that I should receive extreme praise and adulation over the fact I have actually restrained myself this entire time, from coming into this thread and making fun of Canada...

And second, now that I have actually arrived I hope I'm actually contributing something productive. I thought this was pretty good (and not just for Canada)

http://www.ted.com/t..._to_apathy.html

canada thinks they have politics - aren't they cute?

Yes, keep thinking we're silly and innocent. When our inevitable invasion occurs and then you're all eating poutine, wearing toques and talking about Hockey Night in Canada...well, we'll have the last polite laugh!

In other news, I want to throw cow shit on Stephen Harper's hair.

[Abyss]

And now it seems the NDP is making gains in Quebec... Libs slightly elsewhere... Tories still holding a lead...

...this is really turning into (sort of) anyone's game to win, isn't it...?

(not that the NDP stands any chance of forming Parliament, but they could increase their number of seats if Quebec makes a major swing... the real question is then at the expense of which of the big two parties...)

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Abyss, on 14 April 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

And now it seems the NDP is making gains in Quebec... Libs slightly elsewhere... Tories still holding a lead...

...this is really turning into (sort of) anyone's game to win, isn't it...?

(not that the NDP stands any chance of forming Parliament, but they could increase their number of seats if Quebec makes a major swing... the real question is then at the expense of which of the big two parties...)

The NDP is trying very hard to make more inroads in Alberta as well. They have the only non-Tory seat there (Edmonton-Strathcona), and today the Tory candidate has confessed that it doesn't look like he's got a chance of displacing Linda Duncan at the moment. They'Re working very hard to take more seats in Alberta: there's (surprisingly!) a lot of real support for the NDP there, especially in Edmonton, despite everything.

While I agree that it's very unlikely that the NDP could win a majority in this election, it's really a premature and self-fulfilling prophecy to think that they don't have a shot at a minority government. If you seriously believe that your only options are Grit and Tory, then those are your only options. But if everyone votes for the party whose platform, record, and abilities they most believe in (rather than strategically choosing the Grits to deny the Tories), then there's no reason why the NDP should be counted out. The more we repeat the mantra that they can't win, the truer it becomes--unfortunately, that's what happens when one side of the political spectrum is divided against itself. Polls are pretty vacuous things, IMO, but it's clear that the NDP enjoys a steady 18% or so approval rating country-wide, and they do fairly well provincially (they're in charge in Manitoba and Nova Scotia, and are the official opposition in BC and Saskatchewan). That's really not all that far off from the Liberals.

Frankly, I think that Canadians should stop running around in circles and try something new for a change. It doesn't have to be huge, but give another party (or even a coalition) a chance to hold the reins of power for a bit. Where's the harm in that? Can it really be any worse (or less productive) than the last five years have been?

[cerveza_fiesta]

I think folks just might be coming around to the fact that Harper is a pretty massive jerkoff.

The tories in general are alright, and I agree with a lot of what they have to say, but in a country where we elect leaders rather than individual MPs for the most part, he is not coming across as strong as he did in previous campaigns. I still think they'll have the minority gov't though. Libs have got a looooooong way to go if they want to catch up.

And there is no way cow shit would stick to his hair. It is obviously made of Lego man hair, and probably coated with Teflon for easy cleanup in case he gets "pied"

a la Jean Chretien

Cause that's how Canadians deal with political leaders we don't like.

[Una]

It baffles me just how little outrage there is over what a massive jerkoff Harper is. You can't help but notice if you are paying any attention at all. Everything from muzzling his ministers to banning reporters to proroguing parliament to that contempt of parliament thing. Has everyone been sleeping?

I'm seeing enough turnover in the Conservatives away from the old Reform/Alliance days that I could conceive of voting for them, mostly if could I be convinced that the racist homophobes were no longer a significant power within the party. It's a bit hard to tell. He's a control freak, so I have been quite impressed by how well he's kept the crazies quiet. But I really can't see why we should reward Harper's unacceptable behaviour with another mandate. It will only encourage him.

[Abyss]

And therein lies the rub... because while Harper's gov's record is far from stellar, he has a few 'victories', notably the economy (yes, yes, i know, but he's still the PM in the right place at the right time) and say what one will, he comes across as 'leaderish'. Hell, just keeping the more volatile elements of his own party in check can't be easy. Contempt, the pro-rogue, the magic budget... none of these seems to be the smoking gun that the sponsorship scandal was for the Libs last time... of course, they also had Dion.

On the other hand, Ignatief's Libs are wavering in terms of credibility as a viable alternative, and Layton's NDP are all over the place, from huge credibility gains to utter who-are-we-kidding-here, but mostly at the Liberal's expense.

Ignatief needs to really hammer home his leader cred, stat.


On a completely different level, while i really wish the NDP wasn't diluting the Lib vote, i'm going to pee on my own leg with glee if they make significant gains at the Bloc's expense.

[RodeoRanch]

The whole Helena Guergis affair is pretty damn despicable behavior by the PMO.

[D'rek]

I've been looking up some articles fact-checking the debate and it seems like most of the things they said were technically true, with the usual manipulation of numbers (ie Harper said they'd made 600 000 jobs in the recession, which is the trough-to-peak gain and not the net gain). Ignatieff was off on a couple, one of the biggest being his accusation of Layton supporting Harper on a vote in the House (forget which one it was) - in reality Layton simply let his MPs vote however they wanted, an option I frankly never have a problem with!

Layton's pointing out how little Ignatieff has been attending votes in the House is pretty shocking. Ignatieff has missed 59% of the votes! Harper for that matter missed 46%. I get that being the PM and official leader of the opposition are busy jobs, but Layton and Duceppe have only missed 3% each!

[Anomander]

RodeoRanch, on 15 April 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

The whole Helena Guergis affair is pretty damn despicable behavior by the PMO.

What's truly despicable is a Tory staffer trying to steal a ballot from the Guelph University advanced poll. Mercifully he was stopped and the box recovered but it's still absolutely ridiculous.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

D, on 15 April 2011 - 07:34 PM, said:

Ignatieff was off on a couple, one of the biggest being his accusation of Layton supporting Harper on a vote in the House (forget which one it was) - in reality Layton simply let his MPs vote however they wanted, an option I frankly never have a problem with!

Gun registry. I'm surprised Layton didn't handle that one better, really: I'm a staunch supporter of the gun registry, but it's really quite laudable not to whip a vote and to allow your MPs to properly represent their ridings.



In other news, a Tory staffer has tried to steal a ballot box; you can find the story hidden away in the text of the Globe article, or more prominently described by the Guelph Mercury.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i read that they were trying to shut down the guelph pre-vote... now they're trying to swipe ballot boxes? what country is this?

[Abyss]

re Guergis - it's hardly coincidence that she's launching this now, at least in part to support her own Indy candidacy. But yeah, it's bad press for Harper.

re Guelph - no matter how i read that, i seriously doubt the staffer was trying to steal the ballot box. Interfere, yes, and inappropriately so. But i don't think he was trying to burn it or throw it in his car and run for the border. Says something about the kind of people volunteering for the Cons campaign tho, especially stacked with the 'we're looking for people in ethnic arab costumes!' thing yesterday.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Abyss, on 15 April 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

re Guergis - it's hardly coincidence that she's launching this now, at least in part to support her own Indy candidacy. But yeah, it's bad press for Harper.

re Guelph - no matter how i read that, i seriously doubt the staffer was trying to steal the ballot box. Interfere, yes, and inappropriately so. But i don't think he was trying to burn it or throw it in his car and run for the border. Says something about the kind of people volunteering for the Cons campaign tho, especially stacked with the 'we're looking for people in ethnic arab costumes!' thing yesterday.

Fair enough, 'stealing' might be the wrong characterisation (although... what else would he have done with it? Mounted it on his living room wall?). Still, only Elections Canada officials are allowed to touch a ballot box, and tampering (what he attempted) is a federal crime.

Anyway, I'm just delighting in a day of bad press for the Tories.

Also, today is the deadline for releasing the Afghan Detainee documents--after today, the Bloc withdraws its support for the 'solution' (it was shit to begin with, and just more of the same kind of useless showboating that preceded the agreement), which is a problem. Wonder what'll come of that--hopefully more reasons to crush the Tories at the polls. Recall that the bandaid commission that was offered was to avoid a contempt of Parliament ruling...

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Looks like The Globe and Mail has finally decided that the NDP has a real shot: http://www.theglobea...article1987915/

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Take this with a grain of salt, since it's another poll, but the NDP is now polling even with the Liberals across the country, second to the Tories in the West, and second to the Bloc in Québec.

http://www.theglobea...article1989603/

[Abyss]

We are SO headed for yet another Tory minority gov that it's just sick....

If that is however, what we're stuck with, i would love to see the NDP make serious gains at the Bloc's expense.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Abyss, on 18 April 2011 - 04:50 PM, said:

We are SO headed for yet another Tory minority gov that it's just sick....

If we do get another Tory minority, it will be interesting to see how long they can last given:

*Their assertion that they will table an identical budget to the one the other three parties would have voted against if the motion of contempt hadn't passed first.

*There's a standing motion of contempt against the government.

*The report on Afghan detainees will be put before Parliament when it reconvenes (unless it's released earlier). Any reports of wrongdoing could result in 1.) another motion of contempt, and 2.) criminal charges

*The Auditor-General's report of G8/20 spending will come before Parliament when it reconvenes, unless it too is released earlier. This, too, could result in either a motion of contempt or criminal charges.


Those are some seriously hefty documents pending. We'll see how it plays out! On the plus side, a Tory minority will probably result in some massive leader-shuffling (+ retirement shuffling soon).

This post has been edited by Goaswerfraiejen: 18 April 2011 - 08:33 PM