[Gatekeeper]

Crump was Nefarious Bredd? I missed that connection in the text, help a brother out?



-Gate

Re-reading tCG, and it is a fantastic re-read!

P.S. Abyss, when you informed us about the Amazon.ca mix up, I moved my order to .uk, thanks for that. Funny thing is, I canceled my order, but DHL just delivered a TPB version of tCG to me from .Ca. I checked, and they had already refunded me my money. I was wondering if anyone else got a free gift after the mix up?

[Sinisdar Toste]

imo, that's a theory. the neffarious bredd that fiddler sees is a hallucination if you ask me.

[Abyss]

Gatekeeper, on 15 March 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

Crump was Nefarious Bredd? I missed that connection in the text, help a brother out?

Read the description of Bredd when he saves Fid and Hedge. I could be wrong, but i believe the whole big ears gnarly teeth goofy looking description matches what we've read re Crump in TB, Rg and DoD.

Quote

P.S. Abyss, when you informed us about the Amazon.ca mix up, I moved my order to .uk, thanks for that.

One does one's humble best.

Quote

Funny thing is, I canceled my order, but DHL just delivered a TPB version of tCG to me from .Ca. I checked, and they had already refunded me my money. I was wondering if anyone else got a free gift after the mix up?

That's AWESOME.
Not that you really need two copies but oh who am i kidding EVERYONE NEEDS TWO COPIES!!!

[Sindriss]

Well, it is a bit controversial since when fiddler mentiones it to the others, they just look at him and you can sense that they are wondering if fid is crazy. At least that is how I understood it, and I am pretty sure I am not alone in that sentiment

[Ace]

Just joined the board, so don't stone me, but here's my theory on Bredd.

Belief is a hugely important part of the series, and no matter how Bredd began, there were plenty in the rank and file who had no idea he was just made up. They believed in him, and the Bonehunters' belief was a very, very powerful thing. That belief made him real. Basically, the Bonehunters created their own god.

At the same time, that's not actually mutually exclusive to the Crump theory. They might have caused him to ascend into a sort of Dassem/Dessembrae sort of situation, with a mortal representation of the god/ascendant itself. It would just be a Crump/Bredd one instead.

[Aptorian]

Before I heard the Crump theory I also suspected that he was a spirit. Sort of like Grub.

It would be funny if it was Crump. Because we don't ever really see him fight as far as I recall, besides his kamikaze demolition of Y'Ghatan. How ever, when the marines and heavies are making new teams, somebody looks at Crumps and makes a disparaging question like "Can he fight?" And one of the others says "yeah, Crump fights". This would be a pretty cool hint, if Crump in fact turns into some kind of killing machine when he has to. After all he's a from the Mott Irregulars. He's probably not just thick, he's probably also a stubborn murderous nightmare when pushed.

But if Crump really was Nefarias Bred I like to imagine that Erikson would actually have made that revelation through a Crump POV during their last stand at the Barrow.

I am going with Spirit/Hallucination as most likely explanation.

This post has been edited by Clockwork Apt: 16 March 2011 - 04:05 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

I think it's a bit like Hobbes from Calvin and Hobbes. Figment of Calvin's imagination? We'll never know. Magical tiger that comes to life when he and Calvin are alone? We'll never know. This is one of those bigger "leave it to the reader's determination" moments in my mind, deliberately (and artfully, IMO) constructed that way by SE, as opposed to just a "dangling" thread.

[Ace]

I think the most important thing is that it's really not important. It was a great, hilarious moment right in the midst of everyone and thrown in there mostly for fun. Obviously it had a meaningful result, but of all the questions in the book, this isn't one that we're supposed to mull over. I like thinking that the Bonehunters shared rumors and belief gave life to this entity that sort of represents their camp life/life on the march. It makes me happy, so I'm going to run with it unless we hear otherwise later or someone comes up with a theory I like even more.

[Dead Joe]

Clockwork Apt, on 16 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Before I heard the Crump theory I also suspected that he was a spirit. Sort of like Grub.

It would be funny if it was Crump. Because we don't ever really see him fight as far as I recall, besides his kamikaze demolition of Y'Ghatan. How ever, when the marines and heavies are making new teams, somebody looks at Crumps and makes a disparaging question like "Can he fight?" And one of the others says "yeah, Crump fights". This would be a pretty cool hint, if Crump in fact turns into some kind of killing machine when he has to. After all he's a from the Mott Irregulars. He's probably not just thick, he's probably also a stubborn murderous nightmare when pushed.

But if Crump really was Nefarias Bred I like to imagine that Erikson would actually have made that revelation through a Crump POV during their last stand at the Barrow.

I am going with Spirit/Hallucination as most likely explanation.

Isnt crumps real name Jamber Bole? So if he's a Bole I wouldn't be suprised if he can cause serious damage in a fight

[Abyss]

Dead Joe, on 16 March 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Isnt crumps real name Jamber Bole? So if he's a Bole I wouldn't be suprised if he can cause serious damage in a fight

Yep, which would also explain him being able to actually do the things Bredd was supposed to do.

[Kanubis]

There's something I can't get past though...

I'm sure the Boles were all pretty tall. I can't find any specifics about Crump (but I will on the next reread) except for the following, when he's legging it away from his little Cusser-fuck up at Y'Ghatan in TBH:

"Crump raced past as if the mage had been standing still, the man's absurdly long legs pumping high and wild"

I'll dig out MoI later because I'm sure the Mott Irregulars are described as tall, lanky folk. I'll try and check TTH for similar descriptions of Amby and his brother, because I'm sure this description of Boles is consistent throughout the series.

But SE makes a real point of Bredd being a right short-arse:

"a man if anything shorter than Reliko.."

My image is of Bredd barely coming up to Crump's chest...

[Abyss]

Kanubis, on 17 March 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

There's something I can't get past though...

I'm sure the Boles were all pretty tall....But SE makes a real point of Bredd being a right short-arse:

"a man if anything shorter than Reliko.."

My image is of Bredd barely coming up to Crump's chest...

You make a good point.

Unless he was kneeling! Yeah, THAT'S THE TICKET!

[Kanubis]

Abyss, on 17 March 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

Kanubis, on 17 March 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

There's something I can't get past though...

I'm sure the Boles were all pretty tall....But SE makes a real point of Bredd being a right short-arse:

"a man if anything shorter than Reliko.."

My image is of Bredd barely coming up to Crump's chest...

You make a good point.

Unless he was kneeling! Yeah, THAT'S THE TICKET!

But, but, but... Fid and Hedge (have I, at any point during my tenure on this forum, expressed just how awesome I think Hedge is? Totally my favourite character. Bringing him back was an awesome move by SE and all the 'dead should stay dead' nonsense ignores the sheer awesomess of Hedge. That much awesomeness is never going to stay dead. Deal with it.) are lying down, with the former having just rugby tackled the latter down. Then Bredd, to quote:


"slammed won beside them in a clatter"

..implying that he would be lying next to them, giving a full view of his short, totally-not-Bole-propertioned outstretched body.

Hedge.. I love that guy.

This post has been edited by Kanubis: 17 March 2011 - 03:46 PM

[Abyss]

Kanubis, on 17 March 2011 - 03:46 PM, said:

...But, but, but... Fid and Hedge ...are lying down, with the former having just rugby tackled the latter down. Then Bredd, to quote:
"slammed won beside them in a clatter"

..implying that he would be lying next to them, giving a full view of his short, totally-not-Bole-propertioned outstretched body....

STOP FUCKING WITH MY THEORY DAMN YOU!!!!!

[Bauchelain the Evil]

And just because we can here's another hole in your theory.

At the end when Fiddler is doing his rolecall he names all the survivors in his head as he sees them. Crump is one of these. If Nefarious Bredd was indeed Crump then Fiddler should have recognized him. Instead he asks where Bredd is.

[Abyss]

Nah, that was just Crump being sneaky. Obviously in his Nefarious Bredd aspect he runs around on his knees killing the enemy.

[amphibian]

Dead Joe, on 16 March 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Clockwork Apt, on 16 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Before I heard the Crump theory I also suspected that he was a spirit. Sort of like Grub.

It would be funny if it was Crump. Because we don't ever really see him fight as far as I recall, besides his kamikaze demolition of Y'Ghatan. How ever, when the marines and heavies are making new teams, somebody looks at Crumps and makes a disparaging question like "Can he fight?" And one of the others says "yeah, Crump fights". This would be a pretty cool hint, if Crump in fact turns into some kind of killing machine when he has to. After all he's a from the Mott Irregulars. He's probably not just thick, he's probably also a stubborn murderous nightmare when pushed.

But if Crump really was Nefarias Bred I like to imagine that Erikson would actually have made that revelation through a Crump POV during their last stand at the Barrow.

I am going with Spirit/Hallucination as most likely explanation.

Isnt crumps real name Jamber Bole? So if he's a Bole I wouldn't be suprised if he can cause serious damage in a fight

The Boles have some kind of Wolverine-like skeleton with iron/metal fused to their bones. It's why Amby and Jula were able to start grappling with a Jaghut, fight off a Shigal Assassin and so on. Crump has the same thing going on and fought the Nah'ruk with his hands.

Neferias Bredd was a hallucination/wink to the reader. Fiddler knows Crump.

[Ceda Cicero]

amphibian, on 17 March 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

Dead Joe, on 16 March 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Clockwork Apt, on 16 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Before I heard the Crump theory I also suspected that he was a spirit. Sort of like Grub.

It would be funny if it was Crump. Because we don't ever really see him fight as far as I recall, besides his kamikaze demolition of Y'Ghatan. How ever, when the marines and heavies are making new teams, somebody looks at Crumps and makes a disparaging question like "Can he fight?" And one of the others says "yeah, Crump fights". This would be a pretty cool hint, if Crump in fact turns into some kind of killing machine when he has to. After all he's a from the Mott Irregulars. He's probably not just thick, he's probably also a stubborn murderous nightmare when pushed.

But if Crump really was Nefarias Bred I like to imagine that Erikson would actually have made that revelation through a Crump POV during their last stand at the Barrow.

I am going with Spirit/Hallucination as most likely explanation.

Isnt crumps real name Jamber Bole? So if he's a Bole I wouldn't be suprised if he can cause serious damage in a fight

The Boles have some kind of Wolverine-like skeleton with iron/metal fused to their bones. It's why Amby and Jula were able to start grappling with a Jaghut, fight off a Shigal Assassin and so on. Crump has the same thing going on and fought the Nah'ruk with his hands.

Neferias Bredd was a hallucination/wink to the reader. Fiddler knows Crump.

Agreed. But something tells me this discussion will not end until someone asserts a theory that Nefarias Bredd is Father Light. In all seriousness.

Also, my first read of tCG is where I first picked up the Jhag-Bole connection. Has this been pinpointed before? I think it was Olar Ethil who referred to Amby as "Jhag Boleal" or something of the sort.

This post has been edited by Cicero: 17 March 2011 - 10:26 PM

[amphibian]

Cicero, on 17 March 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

Also, my first read of tCG is where I first picked up the Jhag-Bole connection. Has this been pinpointed before? I think it was Olar Ethil who referred to Amby as "Jhag Boleal" or something of the sort.

There have been hints here and there in previous books of the Mott residents being something other than vanilla humans. I think one came when the Trygalle carriage lands in that fishing village with the profoundly screwed up Jaghut husband/wife pair.

[Paran]

Remember in one of the books where 5+ Heavies are all standing round staring at this boot print in the ground thinking it Nefarious Bredd's! Talk about seriously fucking with everyone! Hilarious.