[tiam]

There is such confusion over this ST and Cots arguement. Theres a bit right before hes killed. When Mael and Krul are carrying TCG to underneath the barrow TCG asks whether he shoulkd call his worshippers down (the Jade statues) to bring him release but then notes it will kill them all. Then either Krul or Mael say that his release will come from another. Cue Cots killing him and him going to his worshippers.I admit I thought there was some sort of tomfoolery at play at first but this seems the most solid option.

As ffor the Korlats father issue, Hetan said her and Mal thought it was Osserc but after reading other peoples theories there not so sure. Draconus, Tulas Shorn or another Andii lord are the best bets. As for her not being a pure Andii she never actually says that. The line is she is not pure. This could refer to her being a child of rape rather than a genetic issue.

As for the Eres meh she served her purpose of deus ex machina for three books then vanished never to be seen. Im sure shell turn up whenever ICE needs a bit of a break with something

[nacht]

Regarding Korlat's father.

It seems kind of out of character for Draconus. Se seems to have really loved Mother Dark.

The reason I suspect it is not Draconus,
When Withal mentions the "Watch", it triggers Sand's memory of the rape.

Quote

The first assault was denied, he replied. Yedans Letherii line held, and then pushed the Liosan back through the wound. The Watch==='
"The Watch, yes.' I remember now. It was already in me. Growing. Wanting my love. But how could I love?

then the conversation between Anomander and Sandalath,

Quote

'Hostage,' he murmured, gesturing all the others to leave. He rose from the throne. 'I did not see you there. He released you then -- I did not think --'

'No, Lord', she said, 'he did not release me. He...abandoned me.

'Hostage Drukorlat--'
'I am a hostage no longer, Lord. I am nothing.'

'What did he do to you?'

It seems to me like the Watch raped her and went off to fight a war that he expected to not return from.
A lot of times, Yedan is referred to as a prince just like Scabandari is. Though Scabandari seems doubtful even to me because she does seem to be aware of him

SE left this as a puzzle for us or this rapist is a character we might have not met, or it could well be Draconus as the fight with Anomandaris never had a clear explanation and this sounds like a good one though doing whatever he did to Mother Dark with Dragnispur could also be a reason.

[Shansteeth]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 18 March 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

 Shansteeth, on 18 March 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

Two comments or questions

1. I could believe Draconus was Korlats father. He was not tiste andii, but he came to them in the guise of a tiste andii lord(per silchas ruin). So it makes sense he was involved in all the trappings of being such a lord. You can also assume, I think, that sandy was held hostage inside the palace, so whomever was holding her hostage would have reason to be there regularly or even often. While Draconus clearly had his own place within Khark, as consort to MD he would have spent quite a bit of time at the palace.

2. ST seemed to have not been involved in the little part of Cots killing tcg. He said he approved of course but am I to understand then that ST thought releasing his chains would be enough or was ST playing at something different but was happy with Cots killing him. If ST was not in on killing him, we can only assume HE thought allowing tcg to live after his chains were broken would NOT bring down the Jade Strangers. I am having trouble then reconciling the need for this. ST would not be on that route of allowing him to live if it meant the destruction of everything, including himself.

ST definitely knew that the crippled god had to be killed to free his spirit. how could he not?

Thats what I think, but then how could Cots not know that ST understood his and seemed surprised he approved?

Maybe i am just reading their exchange wrong, maybe they aren't talking about Cots killing him but of bargaining with the 3 dragons?

[Kalkin]

Hey, so first off I was wondering about ST and Cot's agenda.Are they simply trying to garner as much power as possible? I doubt this because of what ST says to Cot near the end of the book. I've always been confused on this, and I felt that SE did this on purpose – shadow is shrouded in mystery and what not – but I always thought it would eventually be explained. I realize that they wanted to release the crippled god, but I find it hard to believe that everything up until now was that.
Secondly, this isn't a big deal, but what is the thing that fiddler is talking about at the end, when he is fishing? It's probably something very obvious that I'm just forgetting.


Next thing is who exactly are Quick Ben and Ruthan Gudd. QB is another character I thought he would explain more. What is the relationship between the two? What is this whole thing in the last book about Burn? What is he to him? What exactly is RG? I realize that people probably won't know the answer, as I think SE didn't ever say it…but in the off chance that I'm wrong,please explain ^^.

Finally as for Korlat's father, she says that he blood is not pure, making Draconus a clear possibility. We saw Anomander's rage at Sand's rape, but then it seems unlikely still. People kept talking about Draconus doing something in a terrible fit of rage – they said he was normally honorable, but then he did something bad when he was extremely angry. So, while much of the evidence that people have pointed out helps the Draconus theory, I find it hard to believe that he would rape her in a fit of rage – also, Nacht made a good point about the shake being involved somehow, because it seems weird that under the given circumstances that seem to be presented to us at the time, that Draconus would be her captor. Only explanation I could think of, would be that that was when Mother Dark did…whatever it was she did exactly to Draconus (sorry not remembering at the moment) – he got extremely angry, and was somehow holding Sand as hostage at the time, and in said fit of rage decided to rape her to spite Mother Dark. Does that seem possible? I'm pretty bad with time lines in this book.

Oh and if someone could point me towards where Hetan says whatever it is she says? I can't find it…was it in one of the earlier books?

Thanks

PS: if any of this is answered in Stonewielder, just let me know, only book I have yet to read usoPreviewPopup

This post has been edited by Kalkin: 01 April 2011 - 08:17 AM

[Arkmam]

 Kalkin, on 01 April 2011 - 06:59 AM, said:

Oh and if someone could point me towards where Hetan says whatever it is she says? I can't find it…was it in one of the earlier books?

You are refering to this post, yes?

 tiam, on 19 March 2011 - 01:56 PM, said:

As ffor the Korlats father issue, Hetan said her and Mal thought it was Osserc but after reading other peoples theories there not so sure. Draconus, Tulas Shorn or another Andii lord are the best bets. As for her not being a pure Andii she never actually says that. The line is she is not pure. This could refer to her being a child of rape rather than a genetic issue.

Tiam means the forum member Hetan, not the character in the book.

[Kalkin]

Oh, haha, that makes more sense, cause she was dead and all in the book for a while...Thanks

Oh, and on a subject completely unrelated, no matter how many times i try to fix it, this website insists on adding "usoPreviewPopup" at the end of my posts. Does anyone know why?



usoPreviewPopupusoPreviewPopup

This post has been edited by Kalkin: 04 April 2011 - 02:22 PM

[Feathersmith]

 nacht, on 20 March 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Regarding Korlat's father.

It seems kind of out of character for Draconus. Se seems to have really loved Mother Dark.

The reason I suspect it is not Draconus,
When Withal mentions the "Watch", it triggers Sand's memory of the rape.

Quote

The first assault was denied, he replied. Yedans Letherii line held, and then pushed the Liosan back through the wound. The Watch==='
"The Watch, yes.' I remember now. It was already in me. Growing. Wanting my love. But how could I love?

then the conversation between Anomander and Sandalath,

Quote

'Hostage,' he murmured, gesturing all the others to leave. He rose from the throne. 'I did not see you there. He released you then -- I did not think --'

'No, Lord', she said, 'he did not release me. He...abandoned me.

'Hostage Drukorlat--'
'I am a hostage no longer, Lord. I am nothing.'

'What did he do to you?'

It seems to me like the Watch raped her and went off to fight a war that he expected to not return from.
A lot of times, Yedan is referred to as a prince just like Scabandari is. Though Scabandari seems doubtful even to me because she does seem to be aware of him

SE left this as a puzzle for us or this rapist is a character we might have not met, or it could well be Draconus as the fight with Anomandaris never had a clear explanation and this sounds like a good one though doing whatever he did to Mother Dark with Dragnispur could also be a reason.

This makes more sense to me than some of the other theories - it ties together several of Sand's memories/thoughts that didn't make sense to me before.

I'd been assuming Korlat saying her blood was "not pure" meant she was not 100% of the royal line, and if the Watch/Shake aren't supposed to be of the royal line, then that would fit.

I've also wondered if Sand saying she had been abandoned meant something more complicated - like she'd been seduced by whoever was holding her hostage, he convinced her he loved her, and then he ditched her after she got pregnant. But Rake's reaction seems to suggest something worse (rape). OTOH, if you thought the person holding you hostage -did- care for you, and then he turned around and raped you, got you pregnant, then disappeared, that could also be seen as abandonment.

[worry]

I suspect the Karkhanas books will be filled with horrors galore. More than enough to make up for those who think TCG ended soft.

[Feathersmith]

Everything after DH and MOI seemed to end kinda soft.

Well, maybe not Reaper's Gale.

Yes I'm still bitter.

[Rysto]

 Shansteeth, on 18 March 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

2. ST seemed to have not been involved in the little part of Cots killing tcg. He said he approved of course but am I to understand then that ST thought releasing his chains would be enough or was ST playing at something different but was happy with Cots killing him. If ST was not in on killing him, we can only assume HE thought allowing tcg to live after his chains were broken would NOT bring down the Jade Strangers. I am having trouble then reconciling the need for this. ST would not be on that route of allowing him to live if it meant the destruction of everything, including himself.

I think that you're completely misinterpreting what they were talking about. It had nothing to do with TCG. What Cotillion did was lead Crokus back to Apsalar. Hence Shadowthrone's comment about symmetry: they took her away from Itko Kan and all that she loved at the beginning of the story, and then at the end they lead her love back to her. Plus, it also calls back to Cotillion's little speech on symmetry when he convinces Cutter to be Felisin Younger's protector, just after Apsalar left him.

[vomitoff]

The Scabandari theory could work out if this quote has anything to do with it.

Quote

Mother Dark's three children.
Three names . . .
Andarist, who long ago surrendered his power to a grief that could never heal. All unknowing that the hand that delivered that grief was mine . . .
[ MT pp 24 ]

This is right after Scab backstabs Silchas.
Could mean a couple of different things. For one, it could be Scab was the one who sired Korlat, and Andarist has a hard on for Sands, and IIRC Sands was dead prior to being resurrected by TCG - Sands' death drove Andarist to grief? So Korlat's blood is not 'pure' as in 100% Andii, if that is what she means by 'pure'. But this crime against Andarist could also point to the 'First Sundering of Emulurhan' (?). When Cots is talking to Elot, Ampelas and Kalse they say Scab spilled blood there in the throne room. Eleint blood? Andii blood? Edur blood? - Tulas Shorn might be connected if it was his blood spilt. Afterall Silchas and Tulas were buds, mayhaps Andarist too. This could cause the 'grief'. I think the strongest possible connection could be what Eloth, Ampelase, Kalse talk about and the 'grief delivery' that Scab performs on Andarist. Korlat could be someone else's kid, but who knows Scab maybe fucked enough people over that he deserved his skull being pulverized by Kilmandaros. (that is the best kill-off for any god/ascendant IMO).