[Venerus]

With a writer as intentional and precise as Erikson, there absolutely _must_ be answers to at least some of these (seemingly, to me) dangling threads in the text. I mean... lazy/stupid writers include detail that derails or doesn't contribute to a strong central narrative. I haven't known Erikson to deviate like that in the past. Here goes (some are comments, some are questions):

-Ammeanas instead of Ammanas -- dunno how I never caught that before
-...and speaking of names, I **FINALLY** got the "Mael" and "maelstorm" connection. D'oh
-Why does Ruthan Gudd freak out at hearing Quick Ben's name? There's some kind of recognition there... someone or thing in QB is also an "elder" I guess? Some part of that full name? Someone on the forums mentioned a poem that might be explanatory. Names are so clearly intentional and important to defining a character (KILLmandros, AmMEANAS, KRUL (cruel), NIGHTchill, DRACONus etc etc) that the answer should be hiding in plain view, IMO
-...speaking of poems, the final one read a lot like someone passing by bridgeburners on a road. The "someone" might be Fiddler, QB or Hedge, or "other". I thought QB or Fid at first, since the speaker seems to be familiar with them, but there's a mention that sounded like "crippled" which made me think a connection to CG, maybe the god himself or a member of his usurped house
-Apparently (according to Hetan) we should be able to figure out Korlat's father, if we're sly
-Where did the Eres go!? What was the point of her inclusion, why'd she get involved, why'd she leave etc etc
-In HoC, Calm prophecies that she'll preside over some "monstrous big" decision by Karsa in the future but... Calm seemed to have no role in Karsa killing the third god of war, and now she's dead. I don't get it. Halp!

Slightly more minor questions, although still need to be resolved:
-Why did QB's power suddenly grow during the series? No definitive answer in tCG I could find -- just that he realized he was Magus of Dark? Boo, if that's the answer
-The final conversation between Cotillion and ST... what is ST saying he approves of? What did Cotillion think ST would have done differently?
-remember that scene in Bonehunters when we see the fallen of the Chain of Dogs again, and they say they're "not supposed to be here" -- are they at The Fall? What are they doing there? And what's Grub's connection to The Fall? Is he some manifestation of it? Seems like he should be...


SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT

heart you all

-ven-

[Ceda Cicero]

As to your question about QB's power growth,

1.) The pivotal "level up" was due to his battle with Icarium. In RG he tells Hedge that he was forced to stretch himself there, and that it had made him "nastier."

2.) There's also the (to me, far more likely) possibility that QB's power never "grew" really, it was always monstrously huge, he was just concealing it as part of his general caginess.

[worry]

Regarding Karsa, I think just about everybody read Calm's threat as a prophecy. At that point we don't know much about the FA. But if you go back to it now, with all the context you have gained, it now appears that what she says about Karsa is prophecy, and what she says about herself is an assumption. She assumes -- because she is FA and because they make it their business to bring "peace" -- that of course she'll be present to stop him. She's not actually having a vision of their future together though. She just senses his power and perhaps destiny, and in arrogance makes a personal threat.

As far as the Eres goes, I also expected her to appear again through Bottle or something, but I guess she felt her role was done. She helped Tavore continue on her path through T'amber, and she maaaaaaaaaaybe had an affect on Icarium's decisions after she knocks him out. He doesn't seem particularly interested in Rhulad after that point, at least. It's not necessarily her influence, but I'm thinking now it's possible she nudged him toward finding his machine. That's pure conjecture after the fact though.

In terms of her motivations, a lot is made of "innocence" throughout the book, and she of course is the last innocent humanoid. If there's a god of love somewhere in this story, she's it. What mother doesn't want her children to live and prosper?

[flea]

What about Seren and her child? Much more, of course, but I can't help wondering.

I still maintain that leaving Felsin in the desert with her followers is a problem.

SE, however, reminds me of Quick Ben -- sneaky bastard with many levels. I am still looking forward to many occasions to ponder this universe.

Obviously this book ends with a notion of the CG being Lear-like: more sinned against than sinning. I find the switch too abrupt to find it believable. I understand how SE's manipulation of POV guides our misconceptions, and I accept it, but in the end this is not history. A minor qualm, to be sure.

[worry]

But was he merely switching, or was he regaining something he had and lost?

[nacht]

Korlat's father.

Scabandari. maybe..

[Mulch]

Re Karsa and Clam, I've just re-read Calms death and it seems that she was surprised that the Toblakai that attacks her isn't Karsa.
"but you freed me" "No you're not him, that was long ago, another time - another place" TCG P837

I think that the mechanics of engineering a Karsa/Calm Karsa/Fener direct confrontation would have ruined continuity/TIMELINE etc with the future story arcs so erkison had to use Ubala to fill the plot hole.

[Cause]

Korlats father is Draconus! He raped her mother and that is the reason Anomander chose to kill him.

[Ace]

I don't feel like I've got enough weight here as of yet to start a note but since Quick Ben was mentioned here, I went back to the Deck reading in DoD and he's Magus of Dark. I could see him falling into Shadow a lot more easily. Does this factor in to the mysteries surrounding him here? It might make some sense that he was messing around with Andii things with that in mind, no?

This post has been edited by Ace: 17 March 2011 - 12:11 AM

[Ceda Cicero]

Ace, on 17 March 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

I don't feel like I've got enough weight here as of yet to start a note but since Quick Ben was mentioned here, I went back to the Deck reading in DoD and he's Magus of Dark. I could see him falling into Shadow a lot more easily. Does this factor in to the mysteries surrounding him here? It might make some sense that he was messing around with Andii things with that in mind, no?

It's interesting too that shortly after he gets the Magus of Dark card in that reading, he's musing to himself about what it portends and there's a bit where he says "There was a throne, once..."

Far as I can tell, all we can really say based on what we have on QB from tCG now is this: he is clearly affiliated with Kurald Galain and/or High House Dark in a big, fundamental way, and MD is likely his mother.

...Aaaand other than that, the mystery remains. I think there's a good chance we'll get some answers in the Andii 'prequel' trilogy, and possibly (though to a far lesser extent, I'd wager) in ICE novels.

[Ace]

Cicero, on 17 March 2011 - 12:56 AM, said:

Ace, on 17 March 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

I don't feel like I've got enough weight here as of yet to start a note but since Quick Ben was mentioned here, I went back to the Deck reading in DoD and he's Magus of Dark. I could see him falling into Shadow a lot more easily. Does this factor in to the mysteries surrounding him here? It might make some sense that he was messing around with Andii things with that in mind, no?

It's interesting too that shortly after he gets the Magus of Dark card in that reading, he's musing to himself about what it portends and there's a bit where he says "There was a throne, once..."

Far as I can tell, all we can really say based on what we have on QB from tCG now is this: he is clearly affiliated with Kurald Galain and/or High House Dark in a big, fundamental way, and MD is likely his mother.

...Aaaand other than that, the mystery remains. I think there's a good chance we'll get some answers in the Andii 'prequel' trilogy, and possibly (though to a far lesser extent, I'd wager) in ICE novels.

He makes a big deal about avoiding Sand too since she had been named Queen.

[Sciz]

Quick Ben is Korlat's father. Bam.

[Shizbit]

Spoilerus Maximus...

You've been warned.


Totally missed the bus at the end for a few things...
Why was the Crippled God assassinated by Cotillion?
Why was everybody so cool with it? Alot of troops died to bring the Chained One 'back to life' and then once Cotillion 'kills' him, everybody's ok with it??
And how did this fit in with the big plan between Shadowthrone and Cotillion (and to a lesser extent with Quick Ben)?
I got lost completely.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Cots killed his corporeal body which was trapping him on the Malaz world. Once Cots killed him his soul/essence/power whatever was able to unite with his followers the Jade Giants. You may have noticed that after he's killed there's a green flame that goes upwards in the sky.

If Cotillion hadn't done so, the only way for the CG to be with his followers would have been to send them down on the Malaz world bit that would have destroyed it.

[Abyss]

Cause, on 16 March 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Korlats father is Draconus! He raped her mother and that is the reason Anomander chose to kill him.

Not how i read it.
Sandy's flashbacks suggest she was raped by whichever Andii Lord held her as hostage. Iirc it wasn't Rake, silch or Darist but one of the others we saw or were ref'd back in TtH.

The rapist would likely be Korlat's father, hence why Sandy was fond of Orfantal but not so much Korlat.

Bauchelain the Evil, on 17 March 2011 - 08:56 AM, said:

Cots killed his corporeal body which was trapping him on the Malaz world. Once Cots killed him his soul/essence/power whatever was able to unite with his followers the Jade Giants. You may have noticed that after he's killed there's a green flame that goes upwards in the sky.

If Cotillion hadn't done so, the only way for the CG to be with his followers would have been to send them down on the Malaz world bit that would have destroyed it.

BINGO.

And heavy irony for the CG's comment that when he returns home, he'll likely be killed.


As for QB's power-ups, a few things were at work there over the course of the series... in MoI he was linked to the Bhargast and Rhivi gods as well as directly to Hood himself. In TB Bottle mentions that he smells like Death. Those sort of channels can lead to power, albeit at a price. At the end of TB QB pushes himself hard against Icarium and nearly dies. In Rg we learn this led to a sufficient power-up to give him an edge on Eleint. Then at the end of DoD he pushes himself again, almost dying in the Skykeep zaps.

In TB we also learn that he had masqueraded as a High Mage well enough to fool Tayshrenn at least once, and that he was otherwise inclined to keep his profile and powers as low as possible.

[Kingfisher]

Venerus, on 14 March 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

-Ammeanas instead of Ammanas -- dunno how I never caught that before
-...and speaking of names, I **FINALLY** got the "Mael" and "maelstorm" connection. D'oh
-Why does Ruthan Gudd freak out at hearing Quick Ben's name? There's some kind of recognition there... someone or thing in QB is also an "elder" I guess? Some part of that full name? Someone on the forums mentioned a poem that might be explanatory. Names are so clearly intentional and important to defining a character (KILLmandros, AmMEANAS, KRUL (cruel), NIGHTchill, DRACONus etc etc) that the answer should be hiding in plain view, IMO

I love the names of the Shadow gods.

Ammanas becomes Ammeanas; my theory is it's a reference to Kurald Emurlahn healing to the point that Meanas is now dominant.

Shadowthrone:

Quote

The shadow of a throne - is that not a cold, frightening place? And yet, Kellanved...do you truly offer succour? Dare you cast a shadow to shield us? To protect us? To humble us in the name of humanity - Onos T'oolan (TCG US p.707)

Dancer/Cotillion: Read on these forums some time ago, "cotillion" is a type of dance.

(Shadow)Dancer becomes Cotillion(Shadow Dance).

[nacht]

Abyss, on 17 March 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

Cause, on 16 March 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

Korlats father is Draconus! He raped her mother and that is the reason Anomander chose to kill him.

Not how i read it.
Sandy's flashbacks suggest she was raped by whichever Andii Lord held her as hostage. Iirc it wasn't Rake, silch or Darist but one of the others we saw or were ref'd back in TtH.

The rapist would likely be Korlat's father, hence why Sandy was fond of Orfantal but not so much Korlat.

Bauchelain the Evil, on 17 March 2011 - 08:56 AM, said:

Cots killed his corporeal body which was trapping him on the Malaz world. Once Cots killed him his soul/essence/power whatever was able to unite with his followers the Jade Giants. You may have noticed that after he's killed there's a green flame that goes upwards in the sky.

If Cotillion hadn't done so, the only way for the CG to be with his followers would have been to send them down on the Malaz world bit that would have destroyed it.

BINGO.

And heavy irony for the CG's comment that when he returns home, he'll likely be killed.


As for QB's power-ups, a few things were at work there over the course of the series... in MoI he was linked to the Bhargast and Rhivi gods as well as directly to Hood himself. In TB Bottle mentions that he smells like Death. Those sort of channels can lead to power, albeit at a price. At the end of TB QB pushes himself hard against Icarium and nearly dies. In Rg we learn this led to a sufficient power-up to give him an edge on Eleint. Then at the end of DoD he pushes himself again, almost dying in the Skykeep zaps.

In TB we also learn that he had masqueraded as a High Mage well enough to fool Tayshrenn at least once, and that he was otherwise inclined to keep his profile and powers as low as possible.

But Korlat's father can't be an Andii lord, because she insists that she is not a pure Tisti Andii and therefore qualified for the jobs of Sister of Cold Nights, but the fact that she is a hostage to somebody in Kharkanas (and not Saranas) is a good point. Such a person and resident could be Prince Scabandaris, maybe ...

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Actually Draconus isn't a bad idea.

Killy mentions that Rake considered Draconus a honorable person until he did something that broke his trust and Rake got really angry. This would fit with the enraged Rake we see after Sand got raped.

And there is also Sand's obsession with Dragnipur when she mistakes Nimander for Rake and the fact that she doubts Rake can defeat "mighty Draconus".

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 18 March 2011 - 04:23 PM

[Shansteeth]

Two comments or questions

1. I could believe Draconus was Korlats father. He was not tiste andii, but he came to them in the guise of a tiste andii lord(per silchas ruin). So it makes sense he was involved in all the trappings of being such a lord. You can also assume, I think, that sandy was held hostage inside the palace, so whomever was holding her hostage would have reason to be there regularly or even often. While Draconus clearly had his own place within Khark, as consort to MD he would have spent quite a bit of time at the palace.

2. ST seemed to have not been involved in the little part of Cots killing tcg. He said he approved of course but am I to understand then that ST thought releasing his chains would be enough or was ST playing at something different but was happy with Cots killing him. If ST was not in on killing him, we can only assume HE thought allowing tcg to live after his chains were broken would NOT bring down the Jade Strangers. I am having trouble then reconciling the need for this. ST would not be on that route of allowing him to live if it meant the destruction of everything, including himself.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Shansteeth, on 18 March 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

Two comments or questions

1. I could believe Draconus was Korlats father. He was not tiste andii, but he came to them in the guise of a tiste andii lord(per silchas ruin). So it makes sense he was involved in all the trappings of being such a lord. You can also assume, I think, that sandy was held hostage inside the palace, so whomever was holding her hostage would have reason to be there regularly or even often. While Draconus clearly had his own place within Khark, as consort to MD he would have spent quite a bit of time at the palace.

2. ST seemed to have not been involved in the little part of Cots killing tcg. He said he approved of course but am I to understand then that ST thought releasing his chains would be enough or was ST playing at something different but was happy with Cots killing him. If ST was not in on killing him, we can only assume HE thought allowing tcg to live after his chains were broken would NOT bring down the Jade Strangers. I am having trouble then reconciling the need for this. ST would not be on that route of allowing him to live if it meant the destruction of everything, including himself.

ST definitely knew that the crippled god had to be killed to free his spirit. how could he not?