[Luzburg]

I started my chapter a day reread and I'm on chapter five.

The scene on pages 134 - 138 where Killy is battering Korobas.

Quote

Errastas glanced over at Kilmandaros. 'Can we not feed her or something? Hasten this healing?'
'No. The wards Rake and the others set were profound. Tearing them down damaged her deeply, in ways no sorcerous healing can reach. Leave her in peace.'

That was obviouly Sechul replying.

Coupled with that conversation we learn before that Knuckles himself walked into chaos and was split in two, forming Oponn. We can deduce that his power was also severely reduced from his recollections.

This I think explains why they could not stand up againt a newly revitalised Draconus.

[S Ruin]

nice one luzburg.

been wanting to state this fact for a while now because people have been berating erikson about this topic but was like arent people reading the same book or what.

she was severly weakened from destroying the wards and also when draconus caught up with her she had beeing fleeing through warrens for some time so the poor woman must have been knackered.

also how many times has erikson showed us throughout the series that battle scenes never happen as people think they will.

another example is when osseric fled from draconus after he to was severly weakened. we all know how bad ass and arrogant osseric is and for him to flee only tells you that draconus is one bad mofo.

respect for rake for taking him out - best character in fantasy series is my man rake

[Obdigore]

I was under the impression that they were talking about The Otat Dragon.

All three of them (knuckles, Errant, and Killy) were no longer worshipped, which lowers their power considerably, and even so only Rake seemed able to stand against Draconus, ever.

I would assume that the wards, because of the nature of Otat, would have to be somehow built into her using her power, and if killy blew through them, I imagine it would damage Otat quite a bit.

The Twins, Knuckles, and Errant could never stand up against anyone like a Mortal Sword, they had to use their powers of circumstance and nudging to make sure the people never got to them. The Errant was almost killed by a slave girl who didn't know how to use her powers, and the Twins got blown up by a random sorcerer in Malaz City, an we hadn't heard from them since...

The only chance Killy had was to find somewhere that Draconus couldn't be EVIL SHADOW DRAGON OF DOOM. Like a cave or a forest or something. But she fled and could find nothing like that through numerous warrens.

[Aptorian]

No Obdi I got the same meaning out of it that Luzburg implies. Killy is drained of strength and deeply exhausted and it only after days of being catatonic that she recovers and they get out of there.

As for the vulnerability of the EGs, we have been shown time and time again that there is little in the ways of defensive strength or wards in the life and death of the power players. All their power is pretty much offensive. A child could kill a god if the timing was right, or a well placed arrow can go through the skull of a bat shit insane Imass. That doesn't mean that the EG in return couldn't punch through a brick wall or cause an earth quake that kills a thousand people when they get angry.

[tiam]

I was probably bitching about Kily being understrength when I was on one my nerfing rants but this does make sense, to an extent.

However if I remember when Draconus went batshit insane and killed that Jade giant under the ground or whatever it was he wasnt a dragon but was only darkness personified or whatever. Yet when he fights Kily im fairly certain he was a dragon. The reasn why her wimpiness annoyed me is that she seems capable of killing dragons and up until we see her in DoD thats her primary role. I expectd Draconus to win obviously but with him turning into a dragon the second time I expected him to be the one dragon Kily couldnt take.

[Aptorian]

I'm honestly not sure he turned into a dragon (all though he appears in the draconic tree) What people see as he shifts is not described as a dragon. It is more like he cloaks himself in darkness and manifests wings. I also wonder what was up with his sword.

[nacht]

Killy is a curious beast. BTW, I never understood what she was doing in the Azath anyway. She didn't have any trouble getting out. It is almost like she went into a retirement home.
I am sure if she actually manifested in the world, people would worship her.

[Blues]

I've only read through TCG once, and that read was pretty fast, but I also seem to remember Killy being tired of the world and ready to accept death. I think it came from a conversation between her and Sechul, or it was from Sechul's inner monologue.


As usual when I post here (because it's from work) I don't have the book handy, but if I'm remembering correctly, then she wouldn't really have the will to fight Draconus. Willpower and motivation seem to play a big role in fights between characters in SE's books.

[tiam]

 Clockwork Apt, on 09 March 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

I'm honestly not sure he turned into a dragon (all though he appears in the draconic tree) What people see as he shifts is not described as a dragon. It is more like he cloaks himself in darkness and manifests wings. I also wonder what was up with his sword.

he does the first time when he drops the Jade giant but im sure theres mention of a talon coming down. Whether that means he can just turn himself into a dragon without having Draconinc form is a bit odd.

 Blues, on 09 March 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

I've only read through TCG once, and that read was pretty fast, but I also seem to remember Killy being tired of the world and ready to accept death. I think it came from a conversation between her and Sechul, or it was from Sechul's inner monologue.


As usual when I post here (because it's from work) I don't have the book handy, but if I'm remembering correctly, then she wouldn't really have the will to fight Draconus. Willpower and motivation seem to play a big role in fights between characters in SE's books.

Why does she run if she accepts death. I remember her being tired of the world but I cant see that as a reason to accept death given that she runs. It would have been more like Hood in TTH if shed accepted it.

[Steve Halter]

Draconus' shifted form is certainly draconic in nature, but I'm not at all sure if it is Eleint in nature. I don't recall any mention of him getting the form through the blood drinking ritual. It could just be part of his aspect of Elder godness. His whole origin is a bit shrouded in mystery. I'm guessing (hoping) we'll find out more in the Kharkanas novels.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 nacht, on 09 March 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

Killy is a curious beast. BTW, I never understood what she was doing in the Azath anyway. She didn't have any trouble getting out. It is almost like she went into a retirement home.
I am sure if she actually manifested in the world, people would worship her.

Rake tossed her in there after she turned on him at the closing of their cleansing of emurlahn

[Luzburg]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 09 March 2011 - 06:08 PM, said:

 nacht, on 09 March 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

Killy is a curious beast. BTW, I never understood what she was doing in the Azath anyway. She didn't have any trouble getting out. It is almost like she went into a retirement home.
I am sure if she actually manifested in the world, people would worship her.

Rake tossed her in there after she turned on him at the closing of their cleansing of emurlahn

Yes. But setch kept her there.

[Aptorian]

Or did she allow him to keep her there? Seems to me that keeping an Elder God "distracted" for 400,000 years might prove... tricky.

[Iamme]

 nacht, on 09 March 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

Killy is a curious beast. BTW, I never understood what she was doing in the Azath anyway. She didn't have any trouble getting out. It is almost like she went into a retirement home.
I am sure if she actually manifested in the world, people would worship her.

Killy only got "out" because Azath had simply walked away from her place of imprisonment.

[D'rek]

 Blues, on 09 March 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

I've only read through TCG once, and that read was pretty fast, but I also seem to remember Killy being tired of the world and ready to accept death. I think it came from a conversation between her and Sechul, or it was from Sechul's inner monologue.


As usual when I post here (because it's from work) I don't have the book handy, but if I'm remembering correctly, then she wouldn't really have the will to fight Draconus. Willpower and motivation seem to play a big role in fights between characters in SE's books.

After Korabas awakens, she explains what it will all mean for the world. Setch, overwhelmed at the consequences, asks her why they did it and her answer is indeed that "she was tired of it all" or something like that. She is complex indeed.

I think that most/all of the Killy-Setch-Errastas scenes are from Setch's PoV has a big influence on how we see these three. Setch seems to be much more ignorant of their mission and what it will really do than the Errant and Killy. I think he really is just following mommy, and when Errastas says it'll destroy all magic and damage the world, Setch shrugs and says whatever, but that is just the way Setch is. He doesn't necessarily believe it all (and when Korabas is released, he says to himself I wasn't serious, I'm never serious (or something like that).

As I see it, Killy knew what Errastas intended and was okay with it, because Killy wanted to break the world, break the Paths, break the new gods. As she says, she was tired of it. I think she knew the possible consequences, aka Draconus killing them, and had accepted that it might happen and that ultimately she could not prevent it. She would try to avoid it (running through myriad warrens), but if she couldn't run she'd accept the consequences when they came, more or less. And she did tell Setch to go away from her after Korabas was awakened...

[Abyss]

I like the OP explanation, and even then Kila did get one good shot in before Drac' finished her. I was surprised, but in retrospect it makes sense.

Sech was fatalistic from the start. I don't think he was ever that keen on any of Kila or Errant's plans, but went along with them for lack of anything else to do.

Oponn pursuing the errant... now there's an interesting development... luck and destiny in conflict.


Drac's soletaken form wasn't typical... it was more like he manifest darkness in the form of a dragon rather than fully veering. That said, it's been mentioned elsewhere that he was a part-blood, so this may just be how his aspects manifest.

[Aptorian]

After it being mentioned that Draconus has sworn to eternally oppose Chaos I find it interesting that he in fact a draconian. Seems that he is at war with himself, but like Rake the dragon aspect holds no sway over him.

Was he always opposed to Chaos? If so why is he draconian soletaken?

[Abyss]

We've never been told if the draconic EGs started out that way or did the kill/sex/drink Tiam thing.

That's an interesting point re his two aspects.

It occurs to me that unlike Rake who was Andii, Drac was EG, which may have affected his ability to reconcile his aspects.

[worry]

"Draconus, blood of Tiam!" is a line in Anomandaris though. (MOI Ch. 4 opening)

[tiam]

As for the EG draconic consequence it could just be that Draconus manifestation as a dragon is his element i.e. Darkness personified though this would fit his previous description rather than his Kily killing one.

Was Olar Ethil the first Draconic soletaken explaining that she is a twin to Tiam? Shes described as such somewhere but given that Tiam seemed to have 5 heads and Olar does not may be a clue. If Tiam was as big as Korabas then surely Olar must have been that large?