[Ulrik]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 14 March 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

But the main reason is that earlier in the book there is a scene about Brys walking over a depression in the ground and telling someone that it was like that because there was water underneath. Its possible that the Bonehunters could have just scried for water across the whole desert, but it wouldn't have worked without Elder Magic.

I could be wrong, but that was the sense I got on why she waited until then.

I always thought that Mael´s dagger was used for classic blood sacrifice he needs to use his power in Kolanse. Twice in TCG he mentions that in Kolanse is Arkhast Korvalain too strong and shield this area from him. Tavore needed to go to basin, because there was water in history and was still deep under surface. Mael was capable to rise it, but only with need of blood sacrifice, breaking Korvalain wall...and dagger was direct link from Tavore to him (an maybe easying sacrifice from killing into smaller amount of blood). IMHO:)

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Ulrik, on 15 March 2011 - 01:47 AM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 14 March 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

But the main reason is that earlier in the book there is a scene about Brys walking over a depression in the ground and telling someone that it was like that because there was water underneath. Its possible that the Bonehunters could have just scried for water across the whole desert, but it wouldn't have worked without Elder Magic.

I could be wrong, but that was the sense I got on why she waited until then.

I always thought that Mael´s dagger was used for classic blood sacrifice he needs to use his power in Kolanse. Twice in TCG he mentions that in Kolanse is Arkhast Korvalain too strong and shield this area from him. Tavore needed to go to basin, because there was water in history and was still deep under surface. Mael was capable to rise it, but only with need of blood sacrifice, breaking Korvalain wall...and dagger was direct link from Tavore to him (an maybe easying sacrifice from killing into smaller amount of blood). IMHO:)

Yes, I was just differing on the reason why she waited so long to use it. Abyss said she was waiting until she was halfway from the edge of the desert to Icarias, but I thought it was because she needed to wait to find a place where there was an ancient water source so that the sacrifice could actually find water.

[Aooga]

Sinisdar Toste, on 14 March 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Just finished and have some questions. Don't want to start a separate thread so decided to post here as Abyss has helped me out before:

1. Who or what is Quick Ben really? What is it about his full name that causes Ruthan Gudd to burst into a laughter of recognition? what's with this sceptre thing? all we can do is speculate. honestly, i'm glad that quick ben didn't get a reveal in this book. he's got 12 souls. any revelation will only engender more questions.
2. Who or what is Ruthan Gudd? not human since he's older than the Imass. Not a Tiste since they're immortal anyway and he claimed that he bargained for his longetivity. So what's older than Imass and Tiste and mortal?my thinking is that he's an envy/spite type character. not an elder god himself, but the offspring of someone serious.
3. Are we supposed to know what that demo is at the bottom of Malaz City bay that Fid goes fishing for to have a chat? the demon is the same one that the emperor conjured and set to guarding his flagship. it was on board when the ship went down in the bay. kellenved had a lot of demons. one's running his old bar now.
4. What's Badalle's deal anyway? If the Snake are a manifestation of D'rek then what's she? How can she draw on Akhrast Korvalin?i'm of the opinion that badalle uses the sorcery of icarium's new warrens. how this relates to d'rek or AK i don't know, but just cuz tavore thinks that the snake was a manifestation of d'rek doesn't mean badalle has to use sorcery in a way we understand.
5. So The Crippled God's the good guy now? Tavore's his Consort? lot of that about Tavore and what's her sacrifice etc.. I didn't get. If someone could elaborate briefly I'd appreciate it. tavore sacrificed everything! her sister, her position in the empire, the closeness she could have experienced with her soldiers, her lover, any expectation of reward or thanks, and a huge chunk of her life. all of it to help a god who most considered to be insane and dangerous. but she saw him differently, she saw him as a victim, a victim who had no choice in the matter and who suffered for a thousand lifetimes for no good reason. and she looked at humanity and all the suffering victims who had no choice, and she knew what the right thing to do was. the audacity of such a plain, ordinary person, without any claim to extraordinary powers, taking such a thing upon themselves is what makes her story so poignant.
6. how does the CG get transported to the meeting with Mael and K'rul? who is the guide with the lantern who is described as 'ghastly'?he only goes there in his mind. the guide is bruthen trana.
7. Hetan wha? I read the explanations but just don't buy it. where'd she get new toes from anyway? maybe from one of the ten's of thousands of dead people in the area?
8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one? who knows? and does it make a difference?

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

Oh and who are Mael's daughters that are running rampant in the world? is one of them T'riss?

Beru and Nerruse. T'riss is a human who ascended.

Because my quote fu is not strong I will respond to your response to my questions here. Thanks for taking the time btw. appreciate it.

1. I always felt sure he was at his core a mortal man and not just an ascendant or Tiste in dsiguise. He has an elder sister afterall who fondly recalls what a shit he was as a kid back in BH. So he has 12 souls of 12 wizards from back during the first Seven Cities campaign. Where or how did he pick up a Tiste soul? Let's assume one of the original 12 is Tiste. Can a possessed soul then take over for short periods? how else to explain his first scene in the novel? if all we can do is speculate then speculate away dude.
2. envy/spite are still ascendant and soultaken (at least one of them is). Ruthan apparently was not until he made a deal and now wears a new body. Could be he started off as something with no facial hair since he seems perpetually preoccupied with his beard. as for his armour; is it really Storm rider armour as described in Stonewielder? I dont think so since those dudes attacking the wall seemed to die fairly easily.
3. Do you recall where the demon is first mentioned? I dont recall. could it be NoK?
4. I'll buy that explanation. Better then the theory that she is some watered quarter breed.
5. thanks for that explanation. So do you think she put herself and her army through all that suffering so they could join the House of Chains? Why not simply warren into Kolanse like Ganoes/Hood/Draconus and some others did?
6. Who the hell is Bruthen Tranna? Sorry don't remember. Is he the guardian of the lost god names from MT who's Brys' best buddy?
7. About Hetan....i'm glad she came back after dying so hard. It's just that after such a hard death I was hoping for a better emotional pay off with a dramatic scene instead of what came across as mostly an after though. I guess that's more of a criticism than a question.

[Ceda Cicero]

Aooga, on 15 March 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 14 March 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Just finished and have some questions. Don't want to start a separate thread so decided to post here as Abyss has helped me out before:

1. Who or what is Quick Ben really? What is it about his full name that causes Ruthan Gudd to burst into a laughter of recognition? what's with this sceptre thing? all we can do is speculate. honestly, i'm glad that quick ben didn't get a reveal in this book. he's got 12 souls. any revelation will only engender more questions.
2. Who or what is Ruthan Gudd? not human since he's older than the Imass. Not a Tiste since they're immortal anyway and he claimed that he bargained for his longetivity. So what's older than Imass and Tiste and mortal?my thinking is that he's an envy/spite type character. not an elder god himself, but the offspring of someone serious.
3. Are we supposed to know what that demo is at the bottom of Malaz City bay that Fid goes fishing for to have a chat? the demon is the same one that the emperor conjured and set to guarding his flagship. it was on board when the ship went down in the bay. kellenved had a lot of demons. one's running his old bar now.
4. What's Badalle's deal anyway? If the Snake are a manifestation of D'rek then what's she? How can she draw on Akhrast Korvalin?i'm of the opinion that badalle uses the sorcery of icarium's new warrens. how this relates to d'rek or AK i don't know, but just cuz tavore thinks that the snake was a manifestation of d'rek doesn't mean badalle has to use sorcery in a way we understand.
5. So The Crippled God's the good guy now? Tavore's his Consort? lot of that about Tavore and what's her sacrifice etc.. I didn't get. If someone could elaborate briefly I'd appreciate it. tavore sacrificed everything! her sister, her position in the empire, the closeness she could have experienced with her soldiers, her lover, any expectation of reward or thanks, and a huge chunk of her life. all of it to help a god who most considered to be insane and dangerous. but she saw him differently, she saw him as a victim, a victim who had no choice in the matter and who suffered for a thousand lifetimes for no good reason. and she looked at humanity and all the suffering victims who had no choice, and she knew what the right thing to do was. the audacity of such a plain, ordinary person, without any claim to extraordinary powers, taking such a thing upon themselves is what makes her story so poignant.
6. how does the CG get transported to the meeting with Mael and K'rul? who is the guide with the lantern who is described as 'ghastly'?he only goes there in his mind. the guide is bruthen trana.
7. Hetan wha? I read the explanations but just don't buy it. where'd she get new toes from anyway? maybe from one of the ten's of thousands of dead people in the area?
8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one? who knows? and does it make a difference?

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

Oh and who are Mael's daughters that are running rampant in the world? is one of them T'riss?

Beru and Nerruse. T'riss is a human who ascended.

Because my quote fu is not strong I will respond to your response to my questions here. Thanks for taking the time btw. appreciate it.

1. I always felt sure he was at his core a mortal man and not just an ascendant or Tiste in dsiguise. He has an elder sister afterall who fondly recalls what a shit he was as a kid back in BH. So he has 12 souls of 12 wizards from back during the first Seven Cities campaign. Where or how did he pick up a Tiste soul? Let's assume one of the original 12 is Tiste. Can a possessed soul then take over for short periods? how else to explain his first scene in the novel? if all we can do is speculate then speculate away dude.
2. envy/spite are still ascendant and soultaken (at least one of them is). Ruthan apparently was not until he made a deal and now wears a new body. Could be he started off as something with no facial hair since he seems perpetually preoccupied with his beard. as for his armour; is it really Storm rider armour as described in Stonewielder? I dont think so since those dudes attacking the wall seemed to die fairly easily.
3. Do you recall where the demon is first mentioned? I dont recall. could it be NoK?
4. I'll buy that explanation. Better then the theory that she is some watered quarter breed.
5. thanks for that explanation. So do you think she put herself and her army through all that suffering so they could join the House of Chains? Why not simply warren into Kolanse like Ganoes/Hood/Draconus and some others did?
6. Who the hell is Bruthen Tranna? Sorry don't remember. Is he the guardian of the lost god names from MT who's Brys' best buddy?
7. About Hetan....i'm glad she came back after dying so hard. It's just that after such a hard death I was hoping for a better emotional pay off with a dramatic scene instead of what came across as mostly an after though. I guess that's more of a criticism than a question.

As to #5, I think there are a few explanations:

Ganoes is the only one to have warrened into Kolanse, and even he as the MotD couldn't get closer than an outlying fortress because of the Assail warren. Hood doesn't warren in, he sails in on the Death Ship and then unveils his warren. And IIRC, we never actually see Draconus in Kolanse proper.

The other explanation is the simplest one: she did it out of military necessity. She positioned the Perish/Bolkando/Letherii to draw out the southern force, Ganoes was up north holding the attention of a northern force, and this allowed Gesler and Stormy to slip in and assault the Spire to get the heart. Then the regular Bonehunters had to be in place to draw out the remaining Assail forces and hold them off while the heavies and marines made the last stand. I think the positioning was largely tactical.

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 14 March 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 March 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Actually, good chance that Badalle and most of the Snakeys were Watered...

I thought they were Shriven, and that the Watered were the Inquisitors following them and the infiltrating girl who couldn't withstand Icarias or the Glass Desert. If the Snake had any FA blood in them I don't think the Desert would have tolerated it.

Totally possible and iirc the children the Host rescued were described as Shriven, but either way they would have FA blood. Not to detract from what the kids went thru, but that would explain the higher survival rate than one might otherwise expect from a few thousand starving refugee kids wandering in the desert. It also explains how Badalle's Mokra mojo was sufficiently strong to push back the Inquisitors.

Speaking of the Inquisitors, i don't think the Desert ( a la Raraku), or the FA god for that matter, took any active steps against FA in its bounds, or else the Snake, Badayral and the Inquisitors would never have made it to Icarias.

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 15 March 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

...Yes, I was just differing on the reason why she waited so long to use it. Abyss said she was waiting until she was halfway from the edge of the desert to Icarias, but I thought it was because she needed to wait to find a place where there was an ancient water source so that the sacrifice could actually find water.

Likely a mix of both. Mael told her to wait until the worse possible moment, ie: halfway there and no more water. The fact that this took place in a basin was probably not coincidence so much as Elder God prescience.

Cicero, on 15 March 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

As to #5, I think there are a few explanations:

Ganoes is the only one to have warrened into Kolanse, and even he as the MotD couldn't get closer than an outlying fortress because of the Assail warren. Hood doesn't warren in, he sails in on the Death Ship and then unveils his warren. And IIRC, we never actually see Draconus in Kolanse proper.

Ganoes doesn't actually warren into Kolanse, rather, he warrened to Host into a key FA keep on the border, which was likely to farthest he could go since he started all the way over on 7C in Aren. That said, he opens two gates to move Host soldiers around the pass too, tho it almost breaks him, and QB uses warrens to help Kalam around the same time, so either the FA warren was weakening or was just weaker where they were.

Quote

The other explanation is the simplest one: she did it out of military necessity. She positioned the Perish/Bolkando/Letherii to draw out the southern force, Ganoes was up north holding the attention of a northern force, and this allowed Gesler and Stormy to slip in and assault the Spire to get the heart. Then the regular Bonehunters had to be in place to draw out the remaining Assail forces and hold them off while the heavies and marines made the last stand. I think the positioning was largely tactical.

Agreed, except that somehoe Tavore factored Korabas into the mix as well.

At least, i thought she did...

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 15 March 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Cicero, on 15 March 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

As to #5, I think there are a few explanations:

Ganoes is the only one to have warrened into Kolanse, and even he as the MotD couldn't get closer than an outlying fortress because of the Assail warren. Hood doesn't warren in, he sails in on the Death Ship and then unveils his warren. And IIRC, we never actually see Draconus in Kolanse proper.

Ganoes doesn't actually warren into Kolanse, rather, he warrened to Host into a key FA keep on the border, which was likely to farthest he could go since he started all the way over on 7C in Aren. That said, he opens two gates to move Host soldiers around the pass too, tho it almost breaks him, and QB uses warrens to help Kalam around the same time, so either the FA warren was weakening or was just weaker where they were.

QB/Kalam warrening could easily be outside of the Akhrast Korvalain area. That would make Paran's card-warping at the Perish-encamped pass outside of AK, too. Tavore's battle with the regulars was outside of AK influence, too - we see squad mages using illusions to kill a Lesser Watered. So Paran pulling Mathok via card wouldn't have been in AK influence either. Evidently, then, everything at the Barrow was all outside of AK, which it probably had to be (hence why they didn't just perform their surgery on the Heart at the Spire.

Cicero, on 15 March 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

Quote

The other explanation is the simplest one: she did it out of military necessity. She positioned the Perish/Bolkando/Letherii to draw out the southern force, Ganoes was up north holding the attention of a northern force, and this allowed Gesler and Stormy to slip in and assault the Spire to get the heart. Then the regular Bonehunters had to be in place to draw out the remaining Assail forces and hold them off while the heavies and marines made the last stand. I think the positioning was largely tactical.

Agreed, except that somehoe Tavore factored Korabas into the mix as well.

At least, i thought she did...

She did, and used her Otataral sword to pull Korabas to that location.

[amphibian]

Aooga, on 15 March 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

6. Who the hell is Bruthen Tranna? Sorry don't remember. Is he the guardian of the lost god names from MT who's Brys' best buddy?

Bruthen Trana was the Tiste Edur overseer who actually gave a crap about doing his job right and not persecuting the Letherii. His spirit was sent by ritual to go find Brys (I think) and his body was killed in real life in a betrayal, so he was doomed to wander as a spirit.

Many people wondered what the hell the point of that was - beyond to show how sad things could be even for an Edur trying to do right - and Erikson had him become a Charon of sorts. Nice job there, Steve.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 15 March 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

Aooga, on 15 March 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

6. Who the hell is Bruthen Tranna? Sorry don't remember. Is he the guardian of the lost god names from MT who's Brys' best buddy?

Bruthen Trana was the Tiste Edur overseer who actually gave a crap about doing his job right and not persecuting the Letherii. His spirit was sent by ritual to go find Brys (I think) and his body was killed in real life in a betrayal, so he was doomed to wander as a spirit.

Many people wondered what the hell the point of that was - beyond to show how sad things could be even for an Edur trying to do right - and Erikson had him become a Charon of sorts. Nice job there, Steve.

It also gave some closure to Tranna's arc from RG which was left hanging after the Warlock King stabbed his body and we saw his soul go wandering off to look for Kila and Sech's Azath house he had visitted earlier.

Those segments of Brys' musings that linked to the deep showed a whole other side to the 'forgotten gods' subplot, as well as Brys' post-resurrection issues.

Vague, but on point and tragic. I thought them a nice touch.

[Feathersmith]

I hadn't picked up on Bruthen Tranna being back in play! Neat.

D, on 15 March 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

Cicero, on 15 March 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

Quote

The other explanation is the simplest one: she did it out of military necessity. She positioned the Perish/Bolkando/Letherii to draw out the southern force, Ganoes was up north holding the attention of a northern force, and this allowed Gesler and Stormy to slip in and assault the Spire to get the heart. Then the regular Bonehunters had to be in place to draw out the remaining Assail forces and hold them off while the heavies and marines made the last stand. I think the positioning was largely tactical.

Agreed, except that somehoe Tavore factored Korabas into the mix as well.

At least, i thought she did...

She did, and used her Otataral sword to pull Korabas to that location.

How did she know that was happening/going to happen? I know she researched everything she possibly could, but it was never clear to me (and maybe it's meant to remain unclear) how she got all the information she must have had. I've been assuming she must have been in touch w/ST to some extent, since she does reveal she's on his team.

[Ceda Cicero]

ST and Cots were somehow prescient to the plans of the Errant, Kily and Sech (as illustrated by ST's outfitting of Silchas with the Hust sword, Cots' bargaining with Eloth, Kalse and Apelas, etc.) and obviously wanting to work Korabas's release to their benefit and, it would seem, Tavore's.

It would seem clear to me that at some point, there had to have been direct contact between Tavore and ST and Cots, it just happened off screen. And what I wouldn't give to read a transcript of those conversations...

[Sinisdar Toste]

not only between ST/Cot and Tavore, but between ST/Cot and Mael. they had a reason for seeking him out after he interfered with dassem in TtH, and mael could have given them the lowdown on the errants plan.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Abyss, on 15 March 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 15 March 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

...Yes, I was just differing on the reason why she waited so long to use it. Abyss said she was waiting until she was halfway from the edge of the desert to Icarias, but I thought it was because she needed to wait to find a place where there was an ancient water source so that the sacrifice could actually find water.

Likely a mix of both. Mael told her to wait until the worse possible moment, ie: halfway there and no more water. The fact that this took place in a basin was probably not coincidence so much as Elder God prescience.

I think it's more the latter. Throughout the series we have seen that Mael can't do much without water( being trapped in the stone altar, having to travel on the moist breath of animals to meet with Killy, popping out of a well at the EG Council) and so it's probale that in a completely dry desert the knife wouldn't have done anything.

[Kage-za]

Quote

Wait, wait wait... Fener Karsa hits altar god dies rain of blood what? WHAT??? Okay, that's one more for the reread... but holy fuck what an effect... we seem to be running of of Gods of War...

When Mael and K'rul take the Crippled God to see Heboric, Mael says about Fener, "even gods of war will tire of war. It seems that only mortals will not. No matter. He has absolved you of all blame. His body has brought life to the dead lands. He deems it a worthy sacrifice." (Kindle version Location 21238 >_<)

So it seems Fener was in on the game, or at least was at peace (no pun intended) with the outcome.

[KeithF]

May as well put my comments here, as my thoughts on the book were quite similar to a lot of other people's. Overall, I thought it was great, with most of the plotlines being satisfying and not too many of the usual difficulties with not remembering who someone was or why they were important. Some of the best parts were:

-The Shake battle. I agree that this seemed a bit tangential to everything else, but I guessed it was probably meant to be thematically connected and the gruelling, emotional description from both sides' points of view was very powerful. Sandalath going mad was unexpected but not ultra-surprising, and we got some hints about stuff that'll hopefully be expanded on in the Kharkanas trilogy.
-Korabas. Just a few short sections of her POV were surprisingly moving for a Godzilla-like force-of-destruction character and the imagery of her laying waste to all in her path without even trying was epic. (In a similar vein, getting the Crippled God himself's POV at long last was pretty cool.)
-Tehol providing some welcome comic relief at points without actually appearing (especially with his 'royal standard' and his embarassing letter).
-HOOD.
-Olar Ethil getting what she deserved. Boo-yah!
-The final stand at the barrow, with some of the more prominent/long-running Bonehunters finally biting it to sho the seriousness of the situation, Hellian and Urb making out, etc.

My two biggest gripes were inter-related: the major events felt a bit similar to earlier books at times, and I didn't feel the characters were in as much danger as in those earlier books. Specifically, the crossing of the Glass Desert felt a bit like a rerun of the Chain of Dogs, except that the Bonehunters weren't under constant attack and I felt fairly certain most of them (at least the named characters) were going to make it, simply for plot reasons (I guess I had faith in Tavore as well). Similarly, the Forkrul Assail's fanatical empire of doom in Kolanse felt a bit like the Pannion Domin 2.0, just not as frightening or interesting (it didn't help that we didn't get the POVs of any regular Kolanse people, with the result that their armies were just faceless warren/munition/sword fodder). That may have been intentional for thematic reasons, of course.

[Abyss]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 16 March 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 15 March 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

... Mael told her to wait until the worse possible moment, ie: halfway there and no more water. The fact that this took place in a basin was probably not coincidence so much as Elder God prescience.

I think it's more the latter. Throughout the series we have seen that Mael can't do much without water( being trapped in the stone altar, having to travel on the moist breath of animals to meet with Killy, popping out of a well at the EG Council) and so it's probale that in a completely dry desert the knife wouldn't have done anything.

Mael comments that he watched the Bonehunters stand against the Nah'ruk via Brys' tears, so i don't think he's quite that cut off, but the Glass Desert being what it was, it makes sense that he at least needed a watery base to work from.

Also, don't forget the blood element - Tavore's blood invocation technically connected to EVERYTHING the army had gone through to that point, and there's a lot of power in that.

Kage-za, on 17 March 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

Quote

Wait, wait wait... Fener Karsa hits altar god dies rain of blood what? WHAT??? Okay, that's one more for the reread... but holy fuck what an effect... we seem to be running of of Gods of War...

When Mael and K'rul take the Crippled God to see Heboric, Mael says about Fener, "even gods of war will tire of war. It seems that only mortals will not. No matter. He has absolved you of all blame. His body has brought life to the dead lands. He deems it a worthy sacrifice." (Kindle version Location 21238 >_<)

So it seems Fener was in on the game, or at least was at peace (no pun intended) with the outcome.

Good catch. When we see Fener back in RG he's not quite so clear, but given that took place in Leth which is Mael's territory it makes sense. As well, Fener was referred to as an ally of the good guy gods iirc back in MoI, where his de-god-ification i DG was noted as a serious blow to their efforts.

KeithF, on 17 March 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

...My two biggest gripes were inter-related: the major events felt a bit similar to earlier books at times,...

I was thinking about this earlier and its true there were parallels between the Glass Desert, the snake and the Chain of Dogs and even the BBs in Raraku..., and between the Regulars' Stand and the Fall, but at least in the latter case i think what went before increased the impact of what was happening. given how the Fall turned out for Coltaine and co, Tavore and co really were at risk.

As for the ongoings strolls in the desert, well, SE is an anthropologist and peoples migrating through deserts is a running theme throughout history... plus let's be honest... a gruelling trek through a pleasant leafy forest just isn't going to be nearly as nasty (unless its Mott i suppose), and mountains are geographically inconvenient.

[QuickTidal]

Fuck.

I just finished.

Gods.

Okay, let's talk about shit I liked.

Hood, climbs a melting giant hill of cracking ice up the spire...then on the Spire chucking that FA (was it Reverence?) around with a sentence in single words matching impacts I. have had. enough. of. your. justice! Fuck me. That scene was MADE of awesome!

Hellian and Urb. Abyss is right, that was THE BEST lovey scene in the whole book. Simply perfect.

QB and Kalam taking out the FA pures when Kalam had just shown back up was so much win.

Was no one else taken aback by the flip Erikson pulled here? We spend almost the entire series thinking that the crippled god was the big bad that needed to be taken out, and in the end they all spend countless lives trying to save him? That was awesome, and I didn't see it coming. I like to think that Cotillion's knives are the blood sacrifice that was needed to send him back up to to his jade friends...because as far as I understand it, HE (Kaminsod TCG) is the one who writes the Book of the Fallen....? am I right? That's what I got from his monologue about them...Also, I really got on TCG's side after I realized that Tavore's plan was to save him from his torment...especially because when you compare him to the gods...current pantheon ANd Elders....the gods come off as so petty and nasty and backstabby...it made me think the chaining (which I originally thought of as necessary)in a different way, it instead becomes a thing done of spite of power hungry gods....VERY interesting, and makes me love this book even more. fucking brilliant!

The saddest, most heroic thing...Stormy and Gesler's assault on the spire, and their sacrifices made me weep like a little girl with a skinned knee. then I shed tears AGAIN when they are at their barrow and Kalyth breaks down when telling Korlat of them....my gods. That plotline was fucking gutting..and totally took the heart of me. Gesler not looking back as Stormy died, Gesler sacrificing himself to save Bent, making Hood's subsequent appearance and anger at the FA even better...and then even Gu'Rull is humbled by them. As far as I am concerned, this scene ranks right up there with The Chain of Dogs, and Itkovian in MoI. Fuck.

The marines stand at the hill was epic and awesome and I'm actually really glad that Fiddler, Smiles, Bottle, Tarr ect. survivved, but we still lost good marines like Corrabb, and Cuttle.

The scene with the boy mocking old Fid on the dock at Malaz City was awesome, and I LOVED how Erikson made their convo mirror the convo with WJ, Fid and young Ganoes on Mocks hold in GotM, and then the weathervane on Mocks Hold. Perfectly brought round Steven. Deftly done sir.

Gall's last stand was impressive, but moreso because "his lungs slid past his spread fingers onto the ground"...fuck me.

Tool and Hetan. Fitting. Nice.

The Marines and Regulars giving each other shit and then Bottles comment "Aw, fuck. they're soldiers, what did you expect." Priceless.

The Tiam thing...anyone else think voltron? LOL

I am happy with this ending. Quite happy in fact. I have only one complaint...and that is that I can't believe it's over. I already miss these characters. A Re-read from the start is going to be...awesome.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 March 2011 - 03:43 PM

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Just a thought I had during the book about the crippled god's multiple chainings. As far as I know we were going under the assumption that there have been multiple chainings because the chains would weaken over time and needed to be patched or redone. Is it possible that there were multiple chainings because whenever a new chunk of tcg was found gods and ascendants would gather to chain it, or add it to the chains containing the rest of him.

[Salt-Man Z]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 19 March 2011 - 06:21 PM, said:

Is it possible that there were multiple chainings because whenever a new chunk of tcg was found gods and ascendants would gather to chain it, or add it to the chains containing the rest of him.

That's kinda of been my assumption ever since I read DoD.

[worry]

This also explains how someone so...say, noble?...as Anomander (and some notable others) could take part in the chainings with all these petty god-tyrants. He had a plan. The cruelty of chaining Korabas is even harder to take, perhaps. And I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. But her destructive nature...and the elimination of Tiam simultaneously...seem like decent reasons for such an unpalatable act. Not to make excuses for him just cuz I like him.

[amphibian]

worrywort, on 19 March 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

This also explains how someone so...say, noble?...as Anomander (and some notable others) could take part in the chainings with all these petty god-tyrants. He had a plan. The cruelty of chaining Korabas is even harder to take, perhaps. And I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. But her destructive nature...and the elimination of Tiam simultaneously...seem like decent reasons for such an unpalatable act. Not to make excuses for him just cuz I like him.

It seems that the chaining of Korabas made Anomander's fracturing of Tiam actually stick for a while. Tiam was in abeyance until Starvald Demelain opened, Korabas was freed and the Storms were free to merge.

On another note, it makes the Storm/trio of Menadore, Sukhul Andadhu and Sheltatha Lore all the more remarkable: those three hated each other enough that the Storm couldn't be controlled or go as smoothly as the others we saw in tCG.