[Tattersail_]

how awesome was this book. I loved it. No complaints because I enjoyed it so much,

[Kanubis]

I'm with you Tattersail. I can say without any hyperbole that it was truly everything I'd hoped for and more.

I honestly felt like Eriksson was rewarding me, as a fan, for every word I'd read up to that point.

[Mulch]

Just finished yesterday - I agree with all of Abyss's comments above. It was an awesome end to a series.

Am I alone in wanting more??

[Abyss]

Cicero, on 09 March 2011 - 10:17 PM, said:

Abyss, no way was the last line from Iccy just another quest-trigger....it's the first fully-formed memory that comes to Icarium without ceaseless prodding and/or manipulation, ...

That would be nice but we've seen him recall similar tidbits before, in particular his Jaghut kin in the Odhan at one point in TB, the Lether machine and Krul, the horny nuns on 7C... he's not whole without memories, but there are so many holes.

Pig Iron, on 09 March 2011 - 10:37 PM, said:

Most surprising re-used evil overlord cliché - one of the FA actually saying "Kill them all".

I had a huge laugh at that.

Fundamentally, the fact that the FA's Diabolical Master Plan was to Destroy The World! was pretty funny, even tho it was more complex than that on other levels.

Quote

Best race - the Jaghut, who live as hermits cause they can't stand all the bad jokes.

"There is a reason Jaghut prefer to live alone." heh...

Quote

...my sis was amazing with tin-soldiers when she was a kid. ...

I actually loved Paran's description of Tavore beating all the visitng commanders with toys.

Kanubis, on 10 March 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm with you Tattersail. I can say without any hyperbole that it was truly everything I'd hoped for and more.

I honestly felt like Eriksson was rewarding me, as a fan, for every word I'd read up to that point.

Agreed.

Mulch, on 10 March 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

...
Am I alone in wanting more??

Nope. But we're getting more so YAY!

[Abyss]

Crossposting this from elsethread, curious if anyone disagrees...

leena, on 07 March 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

...why didnt Tavore shed a little blood before that point in the story to get the magical water? Have I missed something? because she well could of saved a few more lives. ...

She waited until they were exactly half way because any sooner and they would not have had enough water to make it the rest of the way.

Don't forget that they started the trip with full stores (water and food) and made it ten days, halfway to their destination, with the added burden of the Snake kids, before they could go no further.

Had Tavore triggered Mael's dagger any sooner, they would have had water for ten more days - but that wouldn't have gotten them to where they needed to be and the army would have entirely died in the desert.

[Ceda Cicero]

Abyss, on 10 March 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Crossposting this from elsethread, curious if anyone disagrees...

leena, on 07 March 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

...why didnt Tavore shed a little blood before that point in the story to get the magical water? Have I missed something? because she well could of saved a few more lives. ...

She waited until they were exactly half way because any sooner and they would not have had enough water to make it the rest of the way.

Don't forget that they started the trip with full stores (water and food) and made it ten days, halfway to their destination, with the added burden of the Snake kids, before they could go no further.

Had Tavore triggered Mael's dagger any sooner, they would have had water for ten more days - but that wouldn't have gotten them to where they needed to be and the army would have entirely died in the desert.

Exactly.

[Gatekeeper]

[quote name='Abyss' timestamp='1298992294' post='837320']
ABYSSMAL EDIT TO NOTE THE FIRST FEW POSTS ARE MY RUNNING THOUGHTS WHILE I WAS READING THE BOOK.
FOR MY 'JUST FINISHED IT' POST JUMP DOWN TO POST #7.



The frikkin prologue has Liosan, Assail, Andii, Cotillion w Edgewalker and Eleint, Imass, Icarium, Elders, Heboric's body, Paran's Host... SO HAPPY. Apsa'lara joining Nimander. Nice touch that. And it looks like Karsa's in play too.


Yeah, I kept thinking, this is going to be so much goodness, I'm going to have a man-gasm.


Re the Bonehunters - EVERYBODY LIVED! Well, except everyone who died.

I was pissed that Ruthan Gudd lived.

Deadsmell's revelation is thoroughly interesting. Especially because of the implication that Omtose Phellack is becoming human aspected. Which i called back around TB, btw.

Yes you did.



Bottle meeting Ruthan Gudd = AWESOME. And Gudd's totally lying. Stormrider armour saved him my ass.

I loved that QB saved Bottle. But wasn't Bottle supposed to be really important? Was that just a characters take on another character that was wrong?



Nice touch showing QB at the Spar of Andii - that goes all the way back to GotM, that does.

I grinned like Wes from Stonewielder if Wes from Stonewielder just got a bottle of Vicodin.



The Charge. Y'know... there is a certain trope in fantasy lit that runs to capitalizing an event to sort of immortalize it. We've seen it with The Fall (the CG's and Coltaine's, actually), The Chaining, the Seige of Pale.... but the Khundryl's attack back in DoD was so abrupt and seemed to be such a failure it was almost painful. The way the aftermath is being discussed is just awesome. And brutal. Poor Gall. But very interesting how his wife is stepping forward as a player.

Those things usually end with horrible shit for everyone involved, so it was painful to read.




FID'S A CAPTAIN!!!!! YAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

I wasn't happy with this, but that's often the way promotion works.



Also, corporal Corabb! Hee.

Love me that Seven Cities boy.



GO BAALJAAG! Oh. Ouch. Bummer that.

Ouch.



Draconus and Ublala are even funnier than I expected. Ublala's dreams are very interesting. "I'm going to polish my hammer." "He means that literally." Ha!

I needed some humor after SE had asked me to cry so many times already.




So Lostara did draw Cotillion in and basically saved the day. Nice touch that.

Best scene in the book, that whole "Always an even exchange" always gets me.



Neep and Balm discussing how they fought the Nah'ruk by getting low was positively brilliant, and a brilliant example of why the marines are so good at fighting. Your opponent's ten feet tall and wearing major armour and can eat you... get low, start cutting.

Yes.

Hedge and his alchemist just mentioned the drum. I may have just wet myself a little.

CLASSIC.





Cuttle to Bottle - "Smiles sold all your stuff." *hugs*

Very, very good scene.




Ah Stormy and Gesler... so much bromance...

Hard to say it any better.




Felash's handmaiden just became my favourite character in the series. For at least ten full minutes or so. "Couldn't you have found a prettier one?" ....AAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA....

I can't say that I even remember the Unmasked and Felash in DoD, but they stole the show like the Crimson Guard in GotM.



The Snake is back and the kids are fucking. Um. Anyways, looks like Held is important. And it also looks like the Snake is on its way to meet the Bonehunters post split from the Perish and co, which is going to play havok with Tavore's Great Big Suicide Battle Plan.

Ew.

[Aooga]

Just finished and have some questions. Don't want to start a separate thread so decided to post here as Abyss has helped me out before:

1. Who or what is Quick Ben really? What is it about his full name that causes Ruthan Gudd to burst into a laughter of recognition? what's with this sceptre thing?
2. Who or what is Ruthan Gudd? not human since he's older than the Imass. Not a Tiste since they're immortal anyway and he claimed that he bargained for his longetivity. So what's older than Imass and Tiste and mortal?
3. Are we supposed to know what that demo is at the bottom of Malaz City bay that Fid goes fishing for to have a chat?
4. What's Badalle's deal anyway? If the Snake are a manifestation of D'rek then what's she? How can she draw on Akhrast Korvalin?
5. So The Crippled God's the good guy now? Tavore's his Consort? lot of that about Tavore and what's her sacrifice etc.. I didn't get. If someone could elaborate briefly I'd appreciate it.
6. how does the CG get transported to the meeting with Mael and K'rul? who is the guide with the lantern who is described as 'ghastly'?
7. Hetan wha? I read the explanations but just don't buy it. where'd she get new toes from anyway?
8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one?

[Abyss]

Gatekeeper, on 14 March 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

Abyss, on 01 March 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

Bottle meeting Ruthan Gudd = AWESOME. And Gudd's totally lying. Stormrider armour saved him my ass.

I loved that QB saved Bottle. But wasn't Bottle supposed to be really important? Was that just a characters take on another character that was wrong?

Two elements to that, Bottle being QB's shaved knuckle, and Neep'd foretelling that Bottle would betray them all.
On both, i go with 'that hasn't happened yet'.

Quote

Quote

Hedge and his alchemist just mentioned the drum. I may have just wet myself a little.

CLASSIC.

Unfortunate that Bavedict went and died because i would have really liked to see what he did with that.

Quote

...Anyways, looks like Held is important. ...

So did everyone else conclude that Held was long dead when Rutt finally handed her over to Hanavat?

[Aooga]

Oh and who are Mael's daughters that are running rampant in the world? is one of them T'riss?

This post has been edited by Aooga: 14 March 2011 - 02:39 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Just finished and have some questions. Don't want to start a separate thread so decided to post here as Abyss has helped me out before:

1. Who or what is Quick Ben really? What is it about his full name that causes Ruthan Gudd to burst into a laughter of recognition? what's with this sceptre thing? all we can do is speculate. honestly, i'm glad that quick ben didn't get a reveal in this book. he's got 12 souls. any revelation will only engender more questions.
2. Who or what is Ruthan Gudd? not human since he's older than the Imass. Not a Tiste since they're immortal anyway and he claimed that he bargained for his longetivity. So what's older than Imass and Tiste and mortal?my thinking is that he's an envy/spite type character. not an elder god himself, but the offspring of someone serious.
3. Are we supposed to know what that demo is at the bottom of Malaz City bay that Fid goes fishing for to have a chat? the demon is the same one that the emperor conjured and set to guarding his flagship. it was on board when the ship went down in the bay. kellenved had a lot of demons. one's running his old bar now.
4. What's Badalle's deal anyway? If the Snake are a manifestation of D'rek then what's she? How can she draw on Akhrast Korvalin?i'm of the opinion that badalle uses the sorcery of icarium's new warrens. how this relates to d'rek or AK i don't know, but just cuz tavore thinks that the snake was a manifestation of d'rek doesn't mean badalle has to use sorcery in a way we understand.
5. So The Crippled God's the good guy now? Tavore's his Consort? lot of that about Tavore and what's her sacrifice etc.. I didn't get. If someone could elaborate briefly I'd appreciate it. tavore sacrificed everything! her sister, her position in the empire, the closeness she could have experienced with her soldiers, her lover, any expectation of reward or thanks, and a huge chunk of her life. all of it to help a god who most considered to be insane and dangerous. but she saw him differently, she saw him as a victim, a victim who had no choice in the matter and who suffered for a thousand lifetimes for no good reason. and she looked at humanity and all the suffering victims who had no choice, and she knew what the right thing to do was. the audacity of such a plain, ordinary person, without any claim to extraordinary powers, taking such a thing upon themselves is what makes her story so poignant.
6. how does the CG get transported to the meeting with Mael and K'rul? who is the guide with the lantern who is described as 'ghastly'?he only goes there in his mind. the guide is bruthen trana.
7. Hetan wha? I read the explanations but just don't buy it. where'd she get new toes from anyway? maybe from one of the ten's of thousands of dead people in the area?
8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one? who knows? and does it make a difference?

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

Oh and who are Mael's daughters that are running rampant in the world? is one of them T'riss?

Beru and Nerruse. T'riss is a human who ascended.

[worry]

While I don't believe for a second that Beru has gender-changed, Mael's daughters do include at least Nerruse and probably plenty of other sea deities. I agree with pretty much everything else ST says, especially on Badalle. It's clear from her DoD poem that she considers herself, Sinn, and Grub of a kind, and I imagine their main connection is through Icarium. On top of that, the fact that she's able to out-shout the Quitters is evidence enough, I think, that her magic comes from the pumped up new warrens.

As far as D'rek goes, I think it just means that the Snake became something of a rallying cry for D'rek that gained her special attention. She was drawn to them. In the same way Hood paid special attention to a few deaths. I don't consider D'rek the cause and the Snake an effect by any means.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

worrywort, on 14 March 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

While I don't believe for a second that Beru has gender-changed, Mael's daughters do include at least Nerruse and probably plenty of other sea deities.

Actually Beru is constantly changing gender in the books. He/she puts Orfantal to shame. And I think that in DoD it's clearly stated that Mael's daughters are Beru and Nerruse.

[Abyss]

Sinisdar Toste, on 14 March 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Aooga, on 14 March 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

...4. What's Badalle's deal anyway? If the Snake are a manifestation of D'rek then what's she? How can she draw on Akhrast Korvalin?

i'm of the opinion that badalle uses the sorcery of icarium's new warrens. how this relates to d'rek or AK i don't know, but just cuz tavore thinks that the snake was a manifestation of d'rek doesn't mean badalle has to use sorcery in a way we understand.
...

Actually, good chance that Badalle and most of the Snakeys were Watered, which means they had some FA blood. That would explain the link as well as how they were able to survive as far as they did.

Bauchelain the Evil, on 14 March 2011 - 07:06 PM, said:

Actually Beru is constantly changing gender in the books. He/she puts Orfantal to shame. And I think that in DoD it's clearly stated that Mael's daughters are Beru and Nerruse.

Yep.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 14 March 2011 - 07:06 PM, said:

worrywort, on 14 March 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

While I don't believe for a second that Beru has gender-changed, Mael's daughters do include at least Nerruse and probably plenty of other sea deities.

Actually Beru is constantly changing gender in the books. He/she puts Orfantal to shame. And I think that in DoD it's clearly stated that Mael's daughters are Beru and Nerruse.

kinda sucks for beru. imagine the trouble some people have just deciding for themselves what gender they identify with. then add masses of worshippers who are all characterizing you as male or female as fits their own vision of you! talk about angst!

[Obdigore]

Quote

8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one?

Female one, imo. I _think_ that this was the betrayal mentioned, that she betrayed the grey helms when Setoc could have led them so much further.

[Abyss]

Obdigore, on 14 March 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Quote

8. So on of the Wolves is dead. which one?

Female one, imo. I _think_ that this was the betrayal mentioned, that she betrayed the grey helms when Setoc could have led them so much further.

i'm not absolutely certain either of them died. Tanakalian seems to suggest it, but at the same time you'd think as Shield Anvil he'd actually know if that's what had happened. The comment is almost flippant.

[worry]

Weird. In my copies, Beru is always referred to as Lord of Storms. But yah, when you bring in the worshipers I suppose the sexes of most of the gods could be considered fluid.

[Illuyankas]

Abyss, on 14 March 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Actually, good chance that Badalle and most of the Snakeys were Watered, which means they had some FA blood. That would explain the link as well as how they were able to survive as far as they did.

I thought they were Shriven, and that the Watered were the Inquisitors following them and the infiltrating girl who couldn't withstand Icarias or the Glass Desert. If the Snake had any FA blood in them I don't think the Desert would have tolerated it.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Abyss, on 10 March 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Crossposting this from elsethread, curious if anyone disagrees...

leena, on 07 March 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

...why didnt Tavore shed a little blood before that point in the story to get the magical water? Have I missed something? because she well could of saved a few more lives. ...

She waited until they were exactly half way because any sooner and they would not have had enough water to make it the rest of the way.

Don't forget that they started the trip with full stores (water and food) and made it ten days, halfway to their destination, with the added burden of the Snake kids, before they could go no further.

Had Tavore triggered Mael's dagger any sooner, they would have had water for ten more days - but that wouldn't have gotten them to where they needed to be and the army would have entirely died in the desert.

Actually, you'll notice that as Tavore is walking Gudd makes some comment about them walking through a gradually inclined basin that they were just getting into. I think thats because it is the former bottom of an ancient lake, and Tavore needed to wait for there to be a place that had once held water for the dagger to be able to bring it up. 2 reasons for this...1 being I'm not sure Tavore even knew about Icarias, and if she did she didn't know where it was, remember she was asking Gudd about it.

But the main reason is that earlier in the book there is a scene about Brys walking over a depression in the ground and telling someone that it was like that because there was water underneath. Its possible that the Bonehunters could have just scried for water across the whole desert, but it wouldn't have worked without Elder Magic.

I could be wrong, but that was the sense I got on why she waited until then.