[D'rek]

I don't expect the HoC to go anywhere just because TCG is gone. As Cicero mentioned, the King Skinner is still around, Kallor could still be acting as Reaver, Gethol might still be active as Herald and if all else fails there's the undead dragon in TtH that was looking for a spot in it, too.

As for Karsa, I think losing all his gods (and the Teblor's own gods, too) will pave the way for him to become a new mortal-God-leader of the Teblor.

[Abyss]

Gothos, on 16 June 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

He rather seems the guy who'd chop Errastas in half after so little as one sentence exchanged...

True, but on the other hand the 'i do whatever i feel like, whenever i feel like it' element of Karsa's character isn't totally out of the Errant's aspect.

With Oponn on his tail, there's no telling who the Errant might seek as an ally.

Ceda Cicero, on 16 June 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

I think it's also possible (though I can't say how common/likely it is in this case) for upstart Houses to be commandeered, drift between influences/aspects, things like that. ...

Totally. Bidithal and then the CG both tried to commandeer the Whirlwind House as it was emerging in Raraku. In the end everyone failed and Raraku asserted itself, but the possibility is there. And Shadowhouse existed before St and Cotillion made their play and took over.

Midnight, on 17 June 2011 - 01:18 AM, said:

...Don't have the book with me but I believe it's mentioned in Toll the Hounds that, although he gave up his souls in RG, Karsa has begun to collect more - starting with the bandits in the (I think) Dwelling Plain. Although it could be that that was a function of him being the Knight of Chains and he may have given up that role with the CG out of the picture.

Good question. He started that back in HoC but he was already under the CG and Rockfaces influence even then.

D, on 17 June 2011 - 02:38 AM, said:

I don't expect the HoC to go anywhere just because TCG is gone. As Cicero mentioned, the King Skinner is still around, Kallor could still be acting as Reaver, Gethol might still be active as Herald and if all else fails there's the undead dragon in TtH that was looking for a spot in it, too.

As for Karsa, I think losing all his gods (and the Teblor's own gods, too) will pave the way for him to become a new mortal-God-leader of the Teblor.

Yes and yes.
I suspect that the House of Chains aspect will change now that the CG (or at least most of him) is out of the picture, but with Skinner and the Lady in the picture there is some question. In theory Tavore and company are outside of its aspect now.

As for Karsa, i tend to agree that he's on the path to godhood, except that like certain others, he's likely to resist it.

[Use Of Weapons]

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the books that the likelihood of the HoC disappearing was as likely as humanity's penchant for self-loathing and mutual destruction disappearing? (i.e. never)

[Gothos]

Abyss, on 17 June 2011 - 03:36 AM, said:

Gothos, on 16 June 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

He rather seems the guy who'd chop Errastas in half after so little as one sentence exchanged...

True, but on the other hand the 'i do whatever i feel like, whenever i feel like it' element of Karsa's character isn't totally out of the Errant's aspect.

With Oponn on his tail, there's no telling who the Errant might seek as an ally.

He's also a manipulative bastard that never does his own fighting. Just that they both like to have their way doesn't mean they'd be in tandem. Quite frankly, I do think that this quality would make it impossible. Karsa also does seem as he'd be rather impervious to Errastas' nudges, and as soon as he'd feel he's being pushed around, it would be chop chop time.
Which would, of course, be extremely satisfying. To any reader.

[Abyss]

UseOfWeapons, on 17 June 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the books that the likelihood of the HoC disappearing was as likely as humanity's penchant for self-loathing and mutual destruction disappearing? (i.e. never)

possibly in TB or HoC when the new House was discussed, but since Houses' aspects can change and fade, it can't really be taken for granted that the House is here to stay or likely to remain the way it is, whatever Skinner, gethol or Kallor get up to.

[QuickTidal]

Sigh.

Reading this thread and remembering what a brilliantly fulfilling experience it was to read TCG...I want to start a complete series re-read soon.

Also, everyone talking about Bent and Ges and Stormy is making me sad all over again. Cut it out you guys! lol

[Gatekeeper]

What was that part about ST talking to Cots about sending a woman on a mission? What was that about?

[Ceda Cicero]

Gatekeeper, on 01 July 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

What was that part about ST talking to Cots about sending a woman on a mission? What was that about?

Has to be Minala linking up with QB and rescuing Kalam, right..?

[Gatekeeper]

Thanks, I think you are correct Ceda.


I think we should start a thread about all the "throwbacks" and special throwbacks to other books that are in TCG. Like how many times Pale was mentioned, or QB at the Spar, and "always an even exchange" and all that. What do you all think?

This post has been edited by Gatekeeper: 01 July 2011 - 11:54 PM

[Bunami]

A wonderful write up Abyss much appreciated here =P

I have just read this entire series from cover to cover (including Esslemont) and I stand slack jawed and stunned over the incredible journey I have been on for the last 7 months!
THANK YOU Steven Erikson and Ian Esslemont for choosing to place your imagination on paper and allowing me to travel through this incredible universe! I have so many other novels still to read but all I want to do is pick up Korbal and Bauchelian Broach and start right back from the beginning again!

Forever in your debt

This post has been edited by Bunami: 02 July 2011 - 04:13 AM

[Gatekeeper]

Welcome to the new world order friend!!

[Abyss]

Ceda Cicero, on 01 July 2011 - 10:28 PM, said:

Gatekeeper, on 01 July 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

What was that part about ST talking to Cots about sending a woman on a mission? What was that about?

Has to be Minala linking up with QB and rescuing Kalam, right..?

Yep, altho initially i figured/hoped it was Cots calling in Apsalar, but in the end it could only be Minala given that we see Apsalar in her garden at the end while Minala did go recover Kalam.

[Tyrant]

In the prologue when Paran is still besieged in Northern Kolanse and is talking with Shadowthrone he makes a wager with Shadowthrone that he must do something for him if he can break the siege; what was it? Or was this never revealed?

[D'rek]

Tyrant, on 06 July 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

In the prologue when Paran is still besieged in Northern Kolanse and is talking with Shadowthrone he makes a wager with Shadowthrone that he must do something for him if he can break the siege; what was it? Or was this never revealed?

Paran wanted QB and Kalam, ST wanted to know why Paran was so confident Tavore would show up with such great timing or something like that.

[Ceda Cicero]

D, on 06 July 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

Tyrant, on 06 July 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

In the prologue when Paran is still besieged in Northern Kolanse and is talking with Shadowthrone he makes a wager with Shadowthrone that he must do something for him if he can break the siege; what was it? Or was this never revealed?

Paran wanted QB and Kalam, ST wanted to know why Paran was so confident Tavore would show up with such great timing or something like that.

Yeah, it's a one-off mention, but when QB and Paran have their big "come to Jesus" talk, Paran says something to the effect of "When I asked Shadowthrone for Kalam I didn't imagine he'd send you too."

[Iron Bait]

Just finished TCG... sigh.. I have that sad " I'd love to stay but I have to go feeling"

One of my fav lines in the book. Onos T'oolan after Karsa kills Fener and the blood rains down and remakes the T'lan Imass
Just as they are facing the Kolansii ranks. Quote " This... this was ill timed "

So many great lines in this book,but for some reason this one really get's me half between joy and oh oh..

Thanks SE for all the emotions these books deliver!
Hoods breath! Thank-you

[Abyss]

Iron Bait, on 08 July 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

... " This... this was ill timed "...

LOVED that moment. So loaded with irony and sheer 'holy fuck did i just read that'.

[Gatekeeper]

I thought 'He Was A Soldier' was the best 'quote' for the ending. It was a supreme skill set that was able to capture that moment. Anyone know why 'He Was A Soldier' was in quotes, and the rest of the book titles are not?

[Azathmaster]

Abyss, on 15 March 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 14 March 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 March 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Actually, good chance that Badalle and most of the Snakeys were Watered...

I thought they were Shriven, and that the Watered were the Inquisitors following them and the infiltrating girl who couldn't withstand Icarias or the Glass Desert. If the Snake had any FA blood in them I don't think the Desert would have tolerated it.

Totally possible and iirc the children the Host rescued were described as Shriven, but either way they would have FA blood. Not to detract from what the kids went thru, but that would explain the higher survival rate than one might otherwise expect from a few thousand starving refugee kids wandering in the desert. It also explains how Badalle's Mokra mojo was sufficiently strong to push back the Inquisitors.

Speaking of the Inquisitors, i don't think the Desert ( a la Raraku), or the FA god for that matter, took any active steps against FA in its bounds, or else the Snake, Badayral and the Inquisitors would never have made it to Icarias.


I'm almost sure that the shriven were the soldiers and people enslaved by the assail, so they were sorta slavish but without assail blood

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 15 March 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

...Yes, I was just differing on the reason why she waited so long to use it. Abyss said she was waiting until she was halfway from the edge of the desert to Icarias, but I thought it was because she needed to wait to find a place where there was an ancient water source so that the sacrifice could actually find water.

Likely a mix of both. Mael told her to wait until the worse possible moment, ie: halfway there and no more water. The fact that this took place in a basin was probably not coincidence so much as Elder God prescience.

Cicero, on 15 March 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

As to #5, I think there are a few explanations:

Ganoes is the only one to have warrened into Kolanse, and even he as the MotD couldn't get closer than an outlying fortress because of the Assail warren. Hood doesn't warren in, he sails in on the Death Ship and then unveils his warren. And IIRC, we never actually see Draconus in Kolanse proper.

Ganoes doesn't actually warren into Kolanse, rather, he warrened to Host into a key FA keep on the border, which was likely to farthest he could go since he started all the way over on 7C in Aren. That said, he opens two gates to move Host soldiers around the pass too, tho it almost breaks him, and QB uses warrens to help Kalam around the same time, so either the FA warren was weakening or was just weaker where they were.

Quote

The other explanation is the simplest one: she did it out of military necessity. She positioned the Perish/Bolkando/Letherii to draw out the southern force, Ganoes was up north holding the attention of a northern force, and this allowed Gesler and Stormy to slip in and assault the Spire to get the heart. Then the regular Bonehunters had to be in place to draw out the remaining Assail forces and hold them off while the heavies and marines made the last stand. I think the positioning was largely tactical.

Agreed, except that somehoe Tavore factored Korabas into the mix as well.

At least, i thought she did...

[paran falcon]

I just finished my first readthrough of MBotF yesterday. I'm still grasping for the words to describe everything I'm feeling/have felt during the course of this incredible series. I came across this series in the run up to the final Wheel of Time book. The reviews of this series were somewhat mixed but I read enough positives that I gave it a go. As many have stated, GotM was fantastic and frustrating at the same time, but with a spectacular climax, and that is what had me try at least one more: DG. I struggled with DG till about the halfway point and then I was hooked! The ending of DG is one of, if not THE, most powerful ending to a book that I have ever read, and I've read a lot of fantasy over about 32 yrs. Absolutely broke me down, tears streaming, everything. Anyway, I got no farther then DG before it was time to do a full re-read of WoT leading into A Memory of Light, the final book. I had been with WoT since the very beginning and had done re-read after re-read all along the way with each new book until RJ came down with his illness and then his untimely death. I had a very strong relationship with the series, partially because I personally identified very strongly with one of the main characters. So I went through the whole WoT series, start to (finally) finish. I had some issues with some things but I chose/choose to overlook them because I was so grateful for an ending at all. It was very emotional for me, as I knew it would be, and I was unbelievably depressed afterward, knowing it was completely at an end after being there for half my life. I was under no illusions about getting great pleasure from future re-reads; I had done so many already until the last couple books and I felt (and still do) that it would be a loooonnnng time before I went back.

Now back to MBotF. So I'm depressed as can be and need something to try to at least attempt to fill a little of this crater inside me so I go back to Malazan. I had found this site by then and knew that many consider this series the pinnacle of fantasy so... I started over with GotM (3rd read by now) and continued straight through the series (only Erikson's books as of yet). I am beyond amazed at the world that SE and ICE have created, the races, the gods, the ascendants, the amount of HISTORY involved! I cannot compare it to anything else. Erikson can be so aggravating with how little info he gives at times, but I learned to live with it; all the other aspects of his writing more than make up for that, imo. This site is a massive help when it comes to the confusion. I've gotten so many questions answered along the way, often without even needing to post questions. Thank you all for that! I finished TCG yesterday and WOW. A fantastic ending. I don't have many issues at all; probably fewer than I did with WoT's ending. I had tears running down my face more times than I can count through this book. SE is just incredilbe! I know I missed a ton of things along the way but I caught some things also. The reason I referenced WoT at all was to draw the contrast that: unlike that series, which I LOVE but don't intend to re-read anytime soon, MBotF almost demands to be re-read. Many here have stated that multiple re-reads just make it all better and better and I think I can understand that now. I have other books waiting for me but I'm not sure they'll do in the aftermath of this series. I spent the entire rest of yesterday on this site, looking for a few answers and in general just feeling the camraderie of others who had finished. I think if I had been following this series from the beginning, waiting for each subsequent book until TCG, I'd have been much more depressed yesterday. But I got to read all 10 books in approximately a years' time, so the relationship wasn't long, but the intensity, well that's a different story! One of the questions I had was Korlat's "title" going from Sister of Nights to Sister of Cold Nights at the end of TCG. I knew SoCN had been a name (title?) of Nightchill at the confrontation with Kallor (MOI prologue) so I went back and re-read that part. I was also impressed by how SE makes TCG a sympathitic figure after having convinced us he was a piece of crap earlier on and I wanted to re-read how/who originally brought him down etc. (I had remembered, wrongly it seems, that some of the gods had done it to deal with Kallor, but it seems more like mages, possibly, that were under Kallor's tyranny did it?) That little bit of delving into the prologue of an early book for just an answer or two had me going: "Ok, I may have to do a re-read NOW... I'm still undecided when it will be but I plan to add ICE's books to the mix whenever I do. That should add even more, I'm guessing.

Thanks for letting me ramble/share. This site is an awesome companion to the series! I'm often amazed at how in depth some of the thinking/theorizing goes around here.