[Illuyankas]

Melodrama aside, a number of the characters you mention missing out on a resolution either had their stories effectively finished before this book even came out, or will be in later books by either Erikson or Esslemont. Most of the Darujistan cast will be in ICE's novel set there, with Karsa and possibly other Toblakai related people getting their own trilogy after the Kharkanas one.

A big thing with the series is that this isn't the end of the story - the whole narrative is just a segment of the life of the entire world, some things will go uncovered and others left to your imagination. It's been that way the entire series and I guess you can't be faulted for finding it too much that way at the end.

In the end, we all take different things away from the series, and if you choose to take away a crushing sense of disappointment and betrayal because you didn't find the emotional climaxes (climaxii?) diluted across enough pages, that's your prerogative, I suppose.


Edit: As much as I totally disagree, it's still good of you to post your opinions here regardless of what I or other people think. You're just going to frighten a lot of people who haven't got their copies yet.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 28 February 2011 - 01:20 AM

[King Bear]

I haven't read tCG yet, but I (stupidly) risked reading the first couple of lines of your post. Luckily no spoilers there!

On topic, the majority of criticism towards tCG that I've encountered echoes your frustration. I'll have to RAFO, but this is what I think right now:

- This is Erikson, not (just by point of contrast) Sanderson or Goodkind (and thank God for that). We were never going to get all the answers, and that sort of story was never what Erikson set out to tell in the first place.

On the other hand, I do think that it's possible for a lack of certain answers and a sloppy resolution to ruin/maim the story.
Stonewielder's lack of key info on the Lady and Stormriders and it's rushed and sometimes flat climax somewhat let down that
book for me. But there has been a flood of positive feedback on tCG, so I'm currently assuming that's not the case.

- tCG isn't really the end to the malazan saga. ICE's last book will be, and ICE has said it will be a coda of sorts to his and
Erikson's series. I'd hazard a guess that many of your questions will be answered therein. It only sucks that it'll be a few years'
wait to find out.

Really wish I could read the rest of your post... where is my copy still no sign

This post has been edited by Bombur: 28 February 2011 - 01:33 AM

[Iamme]

A tale of malazan book of the fallen! SE was true to name of the book. This book was about crippled god and those who were part of the story line. With his "departure", story ended too. Wait for ICE books for all the hanging threads...

[Hetan]

It's a shame you didn't like the book and I don't consider your post trollish - of course you're entitled to express your opinion.

We always knew that Seven Cities would not be re-visited in this series, we've known this for a long time now so I wasn't expecting to see any of the characters mentioned.
I also didn't expect to see either Apsalar or Crokus together again (and didn't particularly care if I did or not) but I also didn't expect to see Minala either so for me that was a nice surprise, particularly the manner of her reappearance.

With Sinn and Grub - we already knew that Sinn was unbalanced, it's been mentioned often enough that there was something wrong with her mental state since Kalam first came across her in HoC. In addition, from foreshadowing in previous books, their conversations within the Azath would lead you to believe that she was going to do something nuts at some point -

"It can shout, too, Grub."
He nodded. "Loud enough to break the world, Sinn."
"I would, you know," she said with sudden vehemence, "just to see what it can do. What I can do."

It's also been said time and time again that they weren't trusted by anyone, Sinn was sent with Gesler and Stormy because it was considered that they might be the only ones apart from Grub who could stop her. Even Gu'Rull says "But these children. They need to die. Soon." I thought the conversations with Sinn and Grub were great, a real indication of the growing differences between the two, especially when she tried to manipulate Grub by telling him there was no point in trying to go back to the Bonehunters. I was really concerned for Grub at that time and thought that he might end up going down the same route as Sinn but he's just trying to hold on to Sinn's sanity :-

"He could feel all her muscles, tight and wiry, and he knew that this was an embrace he could not hold onto for very much longer. She's scarier than the assassin. You in the Crystal City, are you as frightened as me?".

And she killed Keneb! How come there's no damning her for that act?

I am also at a loss when you say we don't find out how Grub has all that knowledge - but we do know - as it's clearly written that he is a child of the Chain of Dogs made manifest -

"Grub stared down at the terrible carnage. I remember on the wall and that man and all the ones who fell around him – he fought and fought, until they overcame him, brought him down, and then there was a cross and he was nailed to it and the crows spun and screamed and fell from the sky.
I remember the old man on his horse, reaching down to collect me up – and the way he wheeled outside the gate, to stare back – as if he could see all the way we’d come – the bloody road where I was born, where I came alive.
I remember that world. I remember no other.
All of the brave soldiers, I am yours. I was always yours."

My biggest disappointment is that we won't get to know more of his story - I would love to read a book about the First Sword of the Late Empire.

As for Tavore - I'm pretty sure by the end of the book that we know why she did what she did - the whole book is about it! And do I think she knows she killed her sister? - no I don't think so because she tells Ganoes "I lost her" - not "I killed her". Does it matter to me if she does know? not really and I have to say I think she deserves not to know.

Ah well...we all read things differently I guess. I am just really sorry you chose to use the word "curse" at the end of your post. I don't think it deserves that.

[Dutch]

Ok, goodbye.

[tiam]

I will say in regard to the 'Sinn killed Keneb' comment that she didnt kill him. Riding the KCNR lightning she explicitly says 'I did not direct it' so cannot be held responsible nor do I think Keneb would have lived if he hadnt been Ranalled,given Ruthan only did with his (NEVER EXPLAINED NOT EVEN IN STONEWIELDER A BOOK ABOUT STORMRIDERS AGGHHH) Storm Rider armour. Also interesting that there was a Stormrider in the distance when the CG was being carried/holding hands with Mael and Krul.

In anycase Sinn did not kill Keneb. She did not direct the lightning nor cast it in the first place. The only blame that can be put on her is that she *may* have been able to stop it but didnt and given her lonliness its unsurprising she didnt save Grubs only real link to the Bonehunters.

I was also disappointed with this book. I hated TTH because I felt it didnt give enough resolution and thats how I feel about this if not more so. However I loved TTH on a reread so maybe the amount of characterisation and plot will have more of an impact on me the second time when Im not overly scanning for vital clues about characters.

The only thing that excessively bothered me was the copmplete shift in power levels but rather than start a power levels thread I think I need a reread.

[Ceda Cicero]

tiam, on 28 February 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

I will say in regard to the 'Sinn killed Keneb' comment that she didnt kill him. Riding the KCNR lightning she explicitly says 'I did not direct it' so cannot be held responsible nor do I think Keneb would have lived if he hadnt been Ranalled,given Ruthan only did with his (NEVER EXPLAINED NOT EVEN IN STONEWIELDER A BOOK ABOUT STORMRIDERS AGGHHH) Storm Rider armour. Also interesting that there was a Stormrider in the distance when the CG was being carried/holding hands with Mael and Krul.

In anycase Sinn did not kill Keneb. She did not direct the lightning nor cast it in the first place. The only blame that can be put on her is that she *may* have been able to stop it but didnt and given her lonliness its unsurprising she didnt save Grubs only real link to the Bonehunters.

I was also disappointed with this book. I hated TTH because I felt it didnt give enough resolution and thats how I feel about this if not more so. However I loved TTH on a reread so maybe the amount of characterisation and plot will have more of an impact on me the second time when Im not overly scanning for vital clues about characters.

The only thing that excessively bothered me was the copmplete shift in power levels but rather than start a power levels thread I think I need a reread.

Sinn did kill Keneb. Very early in the book - her first POV I believe - she thinks to herself that she directed the lightning toward him to sever what she believed was Grub's last connection with humanity, so that he would be entirely her's. At the moment I have no quote fu, but I'm sure someone else will jump on it.

[tiam]

Cicero, on 28 February 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

tiam, on 28 February 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

I will say in regard to the 'Sinn killed Keneb' comment that she didnt kill him. Riding the KCNR lightning she explicitly says 'I did not direct it' so cannot be held responsible nor do I think Keneb would have lived if he hadnt been Ranalled,given Ruthan only did with his (NEVER EXPLAINED NOT EVEN IN STONEWIELDER A BOOK ABOUT STORMRIDERS AGGHHH) Storm Rider armour. Also interesting that there was a Stormrider in the distance when the CG was being carried/holding hands with Mael and Krul.

In anycase Sinn did not kill Keneb. She did not direct the lightning nor cast it in the first place. The only blame that can be put on her is that she *may* have been able to stop it but didnt and given her lonliness its unsurprising she didnt save Grubs only real link to the Bonehunters.

I was also disappointed with this book. I hated TTH because I felt it didnt give enough resolution and thats how I feel about this if not more so. However I loved TTH on a reread so maybe the amount of characterisation and plot will have more of an impact on me the second time when Im not overly scanning for vital clues about characters.

The only thing that excessively bothered me was the copmplete shift in power levels but rather than start a power levels thread I think I need a reread.

Sinn did kill Keneb. Very early in the book - her first POV I believe - she thinks to herself that she directed the lightning toward him to sever what she believed was Grub's last connection with humanity, so that he would be entirely her's. At the moment I have no quote fu, but I'm sure someone else will jump on it.

I read that she didnt direct the lightning. Yours does make smore sense (and im still really tired from my blitzread over the weekend) but im sure it said that she rid the lightning but did not direct it. In other words she was there when it killed Keneb but didnt direct it so cant really be blamed for Kenebs death.

[Ceda Cicero]

tiam, on 28 February 2011 - 09:18 PM, said:

Cicero, on 28 February 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

tiam, on 28 February 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

I will say in regard to the 'Sinn killed Keneb' comment that she didnt kill him. Riding the KCNR lightning she explicitly says 'I did not direct it' so cannot be held responsible nor do I think Keneb would have lived if he hadnt been Ranalled,given Ruthan only did with his (NEVER EXPLAINED NOT EVEN IN STONEWIELDER A BOOK ABOUT STORMRIDERS AGGHHH) Storm Rider armour. Also interesting that there was a Stormrider in the distance when the CG was being carried/holding hands with Mael and Krul.

In anycase Sinn did not kill Keneb. She did not direct the lightning nor cast it in the first place. The only blame that can be put on her is that she *may* have been able to stop it but didnt and given her lonliness its unsurprising she didnt save Grubs only real link to the Bonehunters.

I was also disappointed with this book. I hated TTH because I felt it didnt give enough resolution and thats how I feel about this if not more so. However I loved TTH on a reread so maybe the amount of characterisation and plot will have more of an impact on me the second time when Im not overly scanning for vital clues about characters.

The only thing that excessively bothered me was the copmplete shift in power levels but rather than start a power levels thread I think I need a reread.

Sinn did kill Keneb. Very early in the book - her first POV I believe - she thinks to herself that she directed the lightning toward him to sever what she believed was Grub's last connection with humanity, so that he would be entirely her's. At the moment I have no quote fu, but I'm sure someone else will jump on it.

I read that she didnt direct the lightning. Yours does make smore sense (and im still really tired from my blitzread over the weekend) but im sure it said that she rid the lightning but did not direct it. In other words she was there when it killed Keneb but didnt direct it so cant really be blamed for Kenebs death.

I think it's easy to infer, especially with the glimpse into her mind following her reference of "riding the lightning" towards Keneb, where she blatantly says that she did it so she could have Grub all to herself, that she is directly responsible. Otherwise, that bit would make no sense at all.

[Lister of Smeg]

She didn't direct it at Keneb, but she also made no attempt to stop it. Page 152

Quote

That is why [Sinn] rode the lizard's lightning, that brilliant fire. I rode it straight for Keneb. I didn't guide it, I didn't choose it, but I understood the necessity of it, the rightness of taking away the one person left who loved you.

So no direction from her, but she wasn't exactly upset by it either.

[tiam]

Lister of Smeg, on 28 February 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

She didn't direct it at Keneb, but she also made no attempt to stop it. Page 152

Quote

That is why [Sinn] rode the lizard's lightning, that brilliant fire. I rode it straight for Keneb. I didn't guide it, I didn't choose it, but I understood the necessity of it, the rightness of taking away the one person left who loved you.

So no direction from her, but she wasn't exactly upset by it either.

Thanks for the quote

Thats what i meant. She can hardly be blamed or accused of killing Keneb when she didnt do it. She was simply aware of it. While the inference is there to make the fact she states she didnt direct it but didnt stop it either making it not her fault. She didnt stop it (she may not have been able to) but that doesnt put the blame at her feet like Hetan said in a post above.

Ciceronian- I admit it makes little sense if it wasnt inplied that Sinn did it but I think the ambiguity of it is the point. She didnt direct it but then again her awareness of it adds a sinister nature to Sinn without implying shes completely psycho. If shed have killed Keneb it would have vilified her to the reader killing Grubs 'father'. But the fact that she witnessed it and was glad because of her lonliness adds alot of morale ambiguity which is typical Erikson, especially in this book where the CG himself is dishing out looks of love to Koryk.

[Ceda Cicero]

tiam, on 28 February 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

Lister of Smeg, on 28 February 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

She didn't direct it at Keneb, but she also made no attempt to stop it. Page 152

Quote

That is why [Sinn] rode the lizard's lightning, that brilliant fire. I rode it straight for Keneb. I didn't guide it, I didn't choose it, but I understood the necessity of it, the rightness of taking away the one person left who loved you.

So no direction from her, but she wasn't exactly upset by it either.

Thanks for the quote

Thats what i meant. She can hardly be blamed or accused of killing Keneb when she didnt do it. She was simply aware of it. While the inference is there to make the fact she states she didnt direct it but didnt stop it either making it not her fault. She didnt stop it (she may not have been able to) but that doesnt put the blame at her feet like Hetan said in a post above.

Ciceronian- I admit it makes little sense if it wasnt inplied that Sinn did it but I think the ambiguity of it is the point. She didnt direct it but then again her awareness of it adds a sinister nature to Sinn without implying shes completely psycho. If shed have killed Keneb it would have vilified her to the reader killing Grubs 'father'. But the fact that she witnessed it and was glad because of her lonliness adds alot of morale ambiguity which is typical Erikson, especially in this book where the CG himself is dishing out looks of love to Koryk.

True story, and that quote (thanks Smeg) gave me a new perspective on it.

[theimmaterial]

****SPOILERS****

I wouldn't say I was utterly disappointed, but I was indeed disappointed. I thought (whether rightly or wrongly) that a lot more might get wrapped up. It seems too much got introduced in the later books and got resolved whilst a lot of the stuff from the earlier ones wasn't touched upon at all. I still want to know what happens with Shadowthrone and Cotillion now, what about Karsa? Dassem Ultor? The Crimson Guard? Kallor? Kruppe?

I did enjoy the pacing of the novel but it seemed at times it was too compressed (perhaps out of necessity but it shouldn't be allowed to detract from the story). A lot of the time it seemed like 'they were fighting, X died, this happened, battle over' there wasn't enough time to get drawn into things, to really feel it. The only exceptions would be Gesler and Stormy at the end, the 5 taking on the FA centre and the very end of the shore (altho i dont really see why the watch had to die - didnt seem to add anything and was a bit gratuitous). I dont care about the perish, i dont care about the bolkando and i don't really care about Bry's army (perhaps excepting Brys himself). All these people came too late to the series and it seems Erikson wrote himself into a corner a little as it meant having to give enough pages to new/minor players.

The shake for instance cropped up randomly quite late in the series and don't really bear any real significance on anything. I actually skipped past them in frustration so I could get on with the bonehunters when i first got the book. I did feel more sympathy for them with the epic battle but it was like a mini-discrete segment within the story arc, it could have been left out and I wouldn't have noticed a hole.

I know a lot fo what I've mentioned is left for ICE to wrap up but I guess I was hoping that the Big Number 10 in the series would put to bed a lot more than it did. As it stands it feels like 'just' another malazan book. It was a good read comparable to Dust of Dreams but as the climax it was disappointing. It wraps up what happened to the crippled god but everything else is still wide open (and there was enough already going on not ot actually need the crippled god - he could have been replaced by something else and the plot would have functioned fine).

[Sinisdar Toste]

since i'm too lazy to actually write out why i think you're wrong, just consider this flak my disagreement with your opinion.

[Hetan]

Quote

I am your fire, Grub, and I will burn to ash anything and anyone who dares gets close to you.
That is why I rode the lizard's lightning, that brilliant fire. I rode it, straight for Keneb. I didn't guide it, I didn't choose it, but I understood the necessity of it, the rightness of the world taking away the one person left who loved you.

I understand that she didn't do anything to cause the death, but that she could have done something but didn't. In my view and obviously we all have our own view of things - her inaction killed Keneb. So I stand by it - the girl was bat-shit crazy by then.

[theimmaterial]

Sinisdar Toste, on 01 March 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

since i'm too lazy to actually write out why i think you're wrong, just consider this flak my disagreement with your opinion.

Disagreement without substance, isn't disagreement at all =D

[bcow]

Hetan, on 28 February 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

It's a shame you didn't like the book and I don't consider your post trollish - of course you're entitled to express your opinion.

We always knew that Seven Cities would not be re-visited in this series, we've known this for a long time now so I wasn't expecting to see any of the characters mentioned.
I also didn't expect to see either Apsalar or Crokus together again (and didn't particularly care if I did or not) but I also didn't expect to see Minala either so for me that was a nice surprise, particularly the manner of her reappearance.

I enjoyed the book, but I do understand where the OP is coming from. "We" know this because we have access to other sources of information. Board posts from people who know SE. Letters from SE. People who attend book signings and hear about new trilogies. People who have read the Esslemont novels. The books don't really eliminate or exclude any of the earlier plots being continued or resolved. Instead we just get silence. Until the very last page of the Crippled God there was nothing in the source material to exclude the _possibility_ of, say, Silverfox and the T'lan Imass showing up and having an extensive dialogue with Paran and Aspalar.

[tiam]

Hetan, on 01 March 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Quote

I am your fire, Grub, and I will burn to ash anything and anyone who dares gets close to you.
That is why I rode the lizard's lightning, that brilliant fire. I rode it, straight for Keneb. I didn't guide it, I didn't choose it, but I understood the necessity of it, the rightness of the world taking away the one person left who loved you.

I understand that she didn't do anything to cause the death, but that she could have done something but didn't. In my view and obviously we all have our own view of things - her inaction killed Keneb. So I stand by it - the girl was bat-shit crazy by then.

As for her being insane I said this above to Ciceronian.

But to say her inaction killed Keneb is a touch too far. We have no proof that she could have done anything about it. Im not going to say it was because it was Ancient KCNR magic or anything tangible like that but to blame Sinn at this point seems too harsh.

As you say though, we each assign reasoning to different characters. I thought Blistig was interesting and an anti hero, like Apt in the thread on this, until I remembered the bastard stabbed Pores. Pores lived and Keneb died but what Blistig did in my view was much worse than Sinn.