[Abyss]

No one leaves the wall. Everyone serves the Lady 'til they die.

But apparently Faradan Sort left the wall.

And now she's with the Bonehunters.

Who are on their way to deal with the CG.

And the Lady happens to be a stray chunk of the CG.

Coincidence?

I think NOT.


- Abyss, ...notes that it may just be a coincidence...

[L'oric]

And she somehow left her sword behind and is unknown to Ruthan who knew greymane....We clearly haven't seen just how good Faradan Sort is, but I would love to.

L'oric

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Well, its a coincidence if you think it is a Stormguard sanctioned mission. Because they are completely ignorant about their true purpose manning the wall.

BUT if you think Sort maybe had a Greymane type epiphany about the Stormriders and Lady and then left for that reason?

...possibly

[HoosierDaddy]

Maybe she just wanted to travel the world, see the sights?

4 Chosen Korelri veterans left the wall to go murder Greymane at the beginning of the book. So, maybe she went AWOL on a mission. Seriously, Fist sounds like a pretty awful place.

[nacht]

Since you mention this, was Faradan a Korelri or was she a Malazan who served on the wall. In that case was she a prisoner or was it typical practice for the Malazan ruler of Fist to provide some people to man the stormwall (as a tribute to Korel).
I think it is only the prisoners who serve till they die.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

nacht, on 07 January 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

Since you mention this, was Faradan a Korelri or was she a Malazan who served on the wall. In that case was she a prisoner or was it typical practice for the Malazan ruler of Fist to provide some people to man the stormwall (as a tribute to Korel).
I think it is only the prisoners who serve till they die.

No apparently she was one of the Chosen. You can tell because she has the scabbard with the silvery inlay that only the Chosen carry. And I think everyone that gets sent to the wall gets sent there for life.

[Abyss]

Yah my impression was that no one left the Wall, and the point is made more than once that Sort is unusual.

I'm speculating that she's a plant sent by the Lady/CG. There may be nothing to it, but given the information we do get about the Wall, the people stuck on it, and the Lady, well, there may be more going on there than just a
renegade who got tired of ice and cold and fighting Riders.

[amphibian]

Abyss, on 07 January 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yah my impression was that no one left the Wall, and the point is made more than once that Sort is unusual.

I'm speculating that she's a plant sent by the Lady/CG. There may be nothing to it, but given the information we do get about the Wall, the people stuck on it, and the Lady, well, there may be more going on there than just a
renegade who got tired of ice and cold and fighting Riders.

But why would she then rescue Sinn and the rest of those who crawled underneath Y'ghatan?

[ansible]

amphibian, on 07 January 2011 - 05:38 AM, said:

Abyss, on 07 January 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yah my impression was that no one left the Wall, and the point is made more than once that Sort is unusual.

I'm speculating that she's a plant sent by the Lady/CG. There may be nothing to it, but given the information we do get about the Wall, the people stuck on it, and the Lady, well, there may be more going on there than just a
renegade who got tired of ice and cold and fighting Riders.

But why would she then rescue Sinn and the rest of those who crawled underneath Y'ghatan?

Plus, Beak.

[MTS]

Abyss, on 07 January 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yah my impression was that no one left the Wall, and the point is made more than once that Sort is unusual.

I'm speculating that she's a plant sent by the Lady/CG. There may be nothing to it, but given the information we do get about the Wall, the people stuck on it, and the Lady, well, there may be more going on there than just a renegade who got tired of ice and cold and fighting Riders.

Well, Traveller and Ereko managed to leave the Wall, and Sort specifically mentions having deserted before Y'Ghatan. The Wall stood for roughly 4000 years, I don't think it's a stretch to say some people might have escaped in the meantime. What makes her unusual is both the fact she was a woman and that she commanded a section of the Wall. My impression of the Chosen is that it's not something you can resign from, and after your fighting days are over you either help administrate or get a cushy posting in the Sky Tower. Chosen aren't prisoners though, they are willing fighters on the Wall.

Also, being a plant makes no sense. Why the 14th, unless the Lady/CG had specific information before the reinforcements arrived that they would play a major role. Elder Gods and even those close to her find Tavore and her motives inscrutable, so the Lady/CG knowing anything about Tavore's plans at least a year before the 14th landed on Lether - and having the wherewithal to get a good plant in place in the meantime - is a bit of a stretch.

[champ]

Planted to make sure the BH dont fail, to make sure they succeed in releasing the CG... maybe

[tiam]

by the sound of things in BH Sort was a section commander who, for whatever reason, fled and killed who ever got in her way hence her sword being in someone. Thats all we really know. As for her joining the 14th theres not alot of things she could have really done other than join an army in the same way that Ruthan Gudd did.

As for her being a plant theres alot in DOD and also in the CG synopsis about a betrayal. Its plausible that it could be Sort as a potential agent of the Lady but the way she left makes it seem that she may have lost faith like that Ruse mage from Mare.

[Abyss]

ansible, on 07 January 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:

amphibian, on 07 January 2011 - 05:38 AM, said:

Abyss, on 07 January 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yah my impression was that no one left the Wall, and the point is made more than once that Sort is unusual.

I'm speculating that she's a plant sent by the Lady/CG. There may be nothing to it, but given the information we do get about the Wall, the people stuck on it, and the Lady, well, there may be more going on there than just a
renegade who got tired of ice and cold and fighting Riders.

But why would she then rescue Sinn and the rest of those who crawled underneath Y'ghatan?

Plus, Beak.

Because she's not 'evil' - she genuinely cares about her troops and wants to see them win through to the end game which may be for Tavore to free the CG.

It's not like the Bonehunters aren't already loaded with people with alternate agendas who are still 'part of the team' ... Banashar working for D'rek, Lostara working for Cotillion, Mael passing Tavore that dagger, QB's deal with Hood, Throatslitter's Talon links etc etc

MTS, on 07 January 2011 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well, Traveller and Ereko managed to leave the Wall, and Sort specifically mentions having deserted before Y'Ghatan...

All true but the point was that leaving the wall is a rare exception and moreson for Stormguard. Even the team that went for Greymane was there for a Wall-related reason.

Quote

Also, being a plant makes no sense. Why the 14th, unless the Lady/CG had specific information before the reinforcements arrived that they would play a major role. Elder Gods and even those close to her find Tavore and her motives inscrutable, so the Lady/CG knowing anything about Tavore's plans at least a year before the 14th landed on Lether - and having the wherewithal to get a good plant in place in the meantime - is a bit of a stretch.

Unless the CG is behind whoever is feeding Tavore info.

Or regardless, the CG like virtually every other god/ascendent is at least mildly precognitive and knows the 14th mission is going to connect to him somehow.

champooon, on 07 January 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

Planted to make sure the BH dont fail, to make sure they succeed in releasing the CG... maybe

Exactly. Maybe.

tiam, on 07 January 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

by the sound of things in BH Sort was a section commander who, for whatever reason, fled and killed who ever got in her way hence her sword being in someone. Thats all we really know. As for her joining the 14th theres not alot of things she could have really done other than join an army in the same way that Ruthan Gudd did.

And that's either entirely logical as a backstory or a cover story.

Quote

As for her being a plant theres alot in DOD and also in the CG synopsis about a betrayal. Its plausible that it could be Sort as a potential agent of the Lady but the way she left makes it seem that she may have lost faith like that Ruse mage from Mare.

But then, if it's a cover story we'd expect that.

Fun!


- Abyss, suspicious mind.

[tiam]

I suppose your right that anyone we havnt had an extensive POV from could be the betrayer or have simply told a cover story.

I wouldnt be surprised if it turned out a few of our minimal POVS in DoD turned out to be this ominous betrayer. If I remember that was one of the criticisms people made of DOD with seemingly every soldier having a viewpoint. With the focus on betrayal I feel it would be more powerful to have a Bonehunter betray the Adjunct.

I hope its not that Queen Abrastal from Bolkando, especially with all the emphasis of her kingdoms betraying tendencies. Or that fat princess

[Daeghrefn]

I've been wondering about the coming betrayals in TCG as well. We're basically told flat-out that Tanakalian is not to be trusted but something tells me that the Perish situation is not going to play out as it's been set up.

[amphibian]

Daeghrefn, on 08 January 2011 - 03:26 AM, said:

I've been wondering about the coming betrayals in TCG as well. We're basically told flat-out that Tanakalian is not to be trusted but something tells me that the Perish situation is not going to play out as it's been set up.

We already know that Setoc is their Destriant and that Tanakalian needs to wait for the right times and not play games as he has been doing to satisfy his ego.

[MTS]

Abyss, on 07 January 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

MTS, on 07 January 2011 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well, Traveller and Ereko managed to leave the Wall, and Sort specifically mentions having deserted before Y'Ghatan...

All true but the point was that leaving the wall is a rare exception and moreso for Stormguard. Even the team that went for Greymane was there for a Wall-related reason.

Of course it's a rare exception, and a Stormguard deserting is quite remarkable, hence the speculation about her in BH. However, I don't think that its unusual nature necessarily points towards Sort having some sort of agenda. The fact that she was a very high-placed Chosen throws some definite suspicion on her, true, but at the same time her attitude definitely doesn't jive with the Chosen we see in SW, like Hiam or Quint. I'd definitely like to see somebody argue that she's a willing pawn of the Lady, as she seems anything but. I can see her being an unwitting pawn, but that brings me to my next point:

Quote

Quote

Also, being a plant makes no sense. Why the 14th, unless the Lady/CG had specific information before the reinforcements arrived that they would play a major role. Elder Gods and even those close to her find Tavore and her motives inscrutable, so the Lady/CG knowing anything about Tavore's plans at least a year before the 14th landed on Lether - and having the wherewithal to get a good plant in place in the meantime - is a bit of a stretch.

Unless the CG is behind whoever is feeding Tavore info.

Or regardless, the CG like virtually every other god/ascendent is at least mildly precognitive and knows the 14th mission is going to connect to him somehow.

Well, we are assuming that the Lady is indeed a fragment of the CG, and had the foresight to see that Tavore was vital to the CG's survival. The first is more likely than not, but I have trouble with the second. Firstly, why the need for a 'plant' if the CG is the one feeding her the info? The need for a plant becomes void when the commander of the army is on your side. Could be helping the BH for him, but then that requires her to be a willing participant, which I doubt. The whole shattered faith thing supports the theory, but for Sort to be an agent of the CG means that he has to be behind her info, and that's anything but certain.

[flea]

Nine books into the series we don't even know what actually constitutes a betrayal anymore. Is the CG evil, or is it that people do unspeakable evil in his name? Is the CG a kind of King Lear, one more sinned against than sinning? So off goes Tavore and the 14th to free the CG, but for what purpose? Does she play a bigger game? Is she manipulated?

One can substitute Faradan Sort for Tavore in the above.

[Epiph]

I'm with MTS in that I think what is unusual about Sort is that she was a high ranking Chosen WOMAN. Because ICE never explained WHY there were so few ladies in the Stormguard, though he did specifically mention that this was the case. I'd say that if that was a somehow important point, Sort will have our answers...if she's alive.

[chaosek]

It could be as easy as women being less influenced by the Lady than men (this seems true in real life as well). As Sort left the wall, the Chosen concluded women are not to be trusted and the stop using women all together.
As for the betrayal, I still think it Tavore her self, bringing the BH's all this way, just so they can be a blood sacrifice. But since everyone is working for some deity or another the whole BH's could be build up out of people with conflicting interests.