[Varan]

Seriously what happened to them?

At the time of the TotH they landed on Quon Tali and got themselves in a fight, ICE next book focuses on Assail so Im guessing he hasnt got much to do with paran, so will SE wrap up this strand in CG?


Im confused

[Ceda Cicero]

Varan, on 21 December 2010 - 09:35 PM, said:

Seriously what happened to them?

At the time of the TotH they landed on Quon Tali and got themselves in a fight, ICE next book focuses on Assail so Im guessing he hasnt got much to do with paran, so will SE wrap up this strand in CG?


Im confused

Where are you getting that the fight we hear about in TtH is on Quon Tali? I don't recall Paran mentioning their location, just that they had landed in a mess.

My pet theory is that at the time of TtH, Paran is already in Kolanse well in advance of the Bonehunters, and that's the mess he's referring to when he speaks to Picker. I could be way off, though if you think about it it's a logical conclusion. It's not likely 7C as he seems pretty intent on leaving that continent at the end of tBH. It's not Genebackis because well we would've heard about it in TtH. If it was Quon Tali there likely would have been some mention of this in Stonewielder. Could be Assail, but I feel like Paran was set up as far too significant to the Crippled God arc to be excluded from the finale entirely, and left to ICE. Finally there are way too many comments about the Master of the Deck v. Errastas in DoD for us not to see some closure there, especially with the Errant still strutting his happy ass around talkin' smack.

Edit: Just for peace of mind I went back for a re-read of the segment in TtH where Picker dials up Paran and noticed something I hadn't before:

Quote

The scene behind him was one of smoke and ruination, the blasted remnants of rolling farmland, tracts defined by low stone walls, but nothing green in sight. She thought she could see bodies on that dead earth.

"Ganoes! Captain -- listen, just concentrate back on me."

"--not the time, Corporal. We've landed in a mess. But listen, if you can get word to them, try. Warn them, Picker. Warn them off... Talk to Kruppe. Talk to the Eel. But listen -- pass on my warning, please."

Who is he telling Picker to "warn off... if she can get word to them?" If he's in Kolanse (which the description of the scene above, IMO, would fit with much better than Assail) he could possibly be referring to the Bonehunters. Though how Picker could be expected to get word to them is beyond me.

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 21 December 2010 - 10:05 PM

[Roldom]

i assumed he was warning them about the tyrant

[MTS]

He's not getting it from the fight. He's getting it from this BH quote:

Quote

She considered for a time, then nodded. ‘I can see the reason in that. All right, what has brought you to Seven Cities?’
He stared at her, then shook his head. ‘A decision I chewed on for what seemed forever, and you grasp my motives in an instant. Fine. I am here to counter an enemy. To remove a threat. Only, I am afraid I will not get there in time, in which case I will clean up the mess as best I can, before moving on—’
‘To Quon Tali.’
‘How – how did you know that?’
She reached for the brick of cheese, produced a knife from her sleeve and sliced off a piece. ‘Ganoes Paran, we are going to have a rather long conversation now. But first, where do you plan to make landfall?’
‘Kansu.’
‘Good, this will make my journey quicker. Two minuscule companions of mine are even now
clambering onto the deck, having ascended via the trees. They will any moment begin hunting rats and other vermin, which should occupy them for some time. As for you and me, let us settle to this meal.’
He slowly leaned back in his chair. ‘We will reach port in two days. Something tells me those two days will fly past like a gull in a gale.’
For me as well, Ganoes Paran.

So it's reasonable to assume he's going to Quon Tali. But he didn't have the Host at that stage, and various other events had yet to happen, so it's likely he changed course accordingly. Like Ciceronian said, it would be odd if he got into some shit there, as you would have thought we'd have heard about it in ROTCG or Stonewielder, but we didn't. IIRC, Kolanse suffered a famine, so the non-verdant farmland fits the description in the TTH quote, and it is the most likely area for him to be in. Assail makes no sense, nor does Genabackis. Jacurucku perhaps, as I'm certain Ardata fits in this whole CG mess somewhere, but Kolanse is far more likely.

[Abyss]

Agreed with upthread. Paran was initially planning to head to Quon, probably to square things with Laseen. After 7C he inheritted the Host and probably got re-routed when he realized what was happening on kolanse. Figuring a veteran Malazan army with 7C cavalry could handle almost anything, he moved the Host to kolanse and walked into a Forkrul Assail ridden mess that probably devastated the Host and its mid-that when Picker reaches him.

Also possible that Apsalar informed him of what she knew from Cotillion's memories that may have changed his plans.

As for why Kruppe, Kruppe is the one person most likely to have the resources necessary to reach Tavore or whoever.

I wonder whether TCG will backtrack to show us what happened to the Host, or just have post DoD survivors encounter the aftermath.

[amphibian]

On page 644 of my hardback edition of Dust of Dreams, Sechul Lath, Kilmandaros and the Errant discuss what to do immediately after Draconus arrives:

Quote

'Wrong,' said Sechul. 'Draconus has returned. But listen to us. We swirl round and round this dread pit of truth. Errastas, will you stand there frozen as a hare? Think you not the Master of the deck is bleeding from the ears right now? Strike quickly, friend - he will be in no condition to intercept you. Indeed, make him fear we planned this - all of it - make him believe we have fashioned the Consort's escape from Dragnipur.'

Kilmandaros's eyes were wide on her son.

Errastas slowly nodded. 'A detour, of sorts. Fortunately, a modest one. Attend me.'

So yes, I too believe Paran is in Kolanse or very close to it. The congery of Elder Gods is already headed to Kolanse to attend the convergence and to consume the Crippled God's power.

Errastas apparently takes a shortcut through the Hold of Death - which is now controlled by the Bridgeburners and Sechul Lath walks with him in order to steal power from one target or another (betrayal of the Errant being most likely). Do you think Iskar Jarak will let the Errant kill Paran - one of the few living Bridgeburners?

[MTS]

As of the end of DoD Errastas is out cold and Setch and Killy are working to free the OD. With Errastas out for the forseeable future, there's really no need to go after Paran. Take out sorcery with the OD and the Deck is gutted as a power source anyway. Knowing how Setch and Errastas play the game, if they decide to go after Paran I don't think Iskar Jarak will have much of a chance to intervene, or that he could do much anyway. Any confrontation from now on I expect to be indirect or completely out of the blue, Errastas isn't powerful enough to challenge Paran directly. Hell, Fiddler even whooped his ass. It's fairly given that he would intervene though.

[Roldom]

fiddler was bluffing though, his divination may of rustled some feathers but he has no conrol on that,

i still think paran was talking to picker about the tyrant of darustan hes the master of the deck, if anyone can forsee the tyrants arrival its paran

[MTS]

It's all in the 'them'. Answering that determines the subject matter. Who is he talking about? The people in Darujhistan? What's he warning them off from then? As far as I know they're not doing anything to interfere or aid in the Tyrant's return. If he was, why talk to Kruppe? Would make more sense to talk to Baruk. No, he's warning 'them' away from wherever he is, since it's a total clusterfuck.

[Dutch]

I was thinking at first that Kruppe could have been able to send the Trygale after them (and that Paran was thinking the same), then I started wondering if it would have been possible with the Holds in Letharas pre "Iccy" Warrens.
Any Thoughts about that?

And perhaps slightly off-topic and and I'm not sure if this is already asked/answered in another post: How would a TTG carridge know where exactly they should go? Can the Mage find it out with scrying?

[Kanubis]

It would be interesting to see a reunion between Corabb and the ex-apocalypse elements that joined the Host in the Bonehunters...

[Ceda Cicero]

@Amph, that's one of the most confusing parts of DoD for me, as the next time we see Errant, Kily, and Sech, they're back to trudging along towards the OD with no mention of the fact that Sech and the Errant set out to find Paran in the last scene. :shrug: I suppose it will be explained.

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 23 December 2010 - 01:36 PM

[Abyss]

Ciceronian, on 23 December 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

@Amph, that's one of the most confusing parts of DoD for me, as the next time we see Errant, Kily, and Sech, they're back to trudging along towards the OD with no mention of the fact that Sech and the Errant set out to find Paran in the last scene. :shrug: I suppose it will be explained.

Yep - it took place 'off stage' and hopefuly we'll see it in TCG.

Should be interesting - unlike Kila, i can't see Sech and Errant punching their way through squads to get a shot at Paran, so they may strike from ambush or something.

But when we see them next it appears they are just fine, which leaves me wondering if they succeeded.

Not to worry tho - i still stand by my crazy theory that we'll get a last second reveal that Paran was the feint and Fid was the MoD the whole time.

- Abyss, notes hope springs eternal...

[champ]

Quote

Think you not the Master of the deck is bleeding from the ears right now? Strike quickly, friend - he will be in no condition to intercept you

That could also be interpreted that they were aiming to strike at something/someone else and not at Paran, that they were worried Paran could stop them, intercept them...

Though I agree that it is the logical choice that they were aiming for Paran...

[poeg]

champooon, on 23 December 2010 - 02:39 PM, said:

Quote

Think you not the Master of the deck is bleeding from the ears right now? Strike quickly, friend - he will be in no condition to intercept you

That could also be interpreted that they were aiming to strike at something/someone else and not at Paran, that they were worried Paran could stop them, intercept them...

Though I agree that it is the logical choice that they were aiming for Paran...

Not so logical as the Errant has already shown himself to be unwilling to take on Ganoes Paran directly and the other elders have also shown to be "unto themselves" first and foremost throughout the entire series. The first lesson the series was the unleashing of great power draws the same from others with unwanted consequences and attentions as the very direct result. All the great powers, both elder and not, spend a great deal of time not stepping on each others toes. MAD exists even in the Malazan world.

This post has been edited by poeg: 11 January 2011 - 07:50 PM

[Ceda Cicero]

poeg, on 11 January 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

champooon, on 23 December 2010 - 02:39 PM, said:

Quote

Think you not the Master of the deck is bleeding from the ears right now? Strike quickly, friend - he will be in no condition to intercept you

That could also be interpreted that they were aiming to strike at something/someone else and not at Paran, that they were worried Paran could stop them, intercept them...

Though I agree that it is the logical choice that they were aiming for Paran...

Not so logical as the Errant has already shown himself to be unwilling to take on Ganoes Paran directly and the other elders have also shown to be "unto themselves" first and foremost throughout the entire series.

Right but... 1.) Sech and Killy are manipulating Errastas to some end. This seemed pretty clear to me but just in case it isn't, Killy more or less tells Mael as much when they discuss how the Errant thought his summons was compulsory... but it wasn't.

2.) Sech's logic in the quote from champoon is that the Master of the Deck is in a weakened state as a result of Draconus's return, and as such would be unprepared/unable to defend against an attack.

Still, this is - IMO, and as I've stated elsewhere - one of the bigger threads that was left dangling in DoD.

[poeg]

Ciceronian, on 11 January 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

poeg, on 11 January 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

champooon, on 23 December 2010 - 02:39 PM, said:

Quote

Think you not the Master of the deck is bleeding from the ears right now? Strike quickly, friend - he will be in no condition to intercept you

That could also be interpreted that they were aiming to strike at something/someone else and not at Paran, that they were worried Paran could stop them, intercept them...

Though I agree that it is the logical choice that they were aiming for Paran...

Not so logical as the Errant has already shown himself to be unwilling to take on Ganoes Paran directly and the other elders have also shown to be "unto themselves" first and foremost throughout the entire series.

Right but... 1.) Sech and Killy are manipulating Errastas to some end. This seemed pretty clear to me but just in case it isn't, Killy more or less tells Mael as much when they discuss how the Errant thought his summons was compulsory... but it wasn't.

2.) Sech's logic in the quote from champoon is that the Master of the Deck is in a weakened state as a result of Draconus's return, and as such would be unprepared/unable to defend against an attack.

Still, this is - IMO, and as I've stated elsewhere - one of the bigger threads that was left dangling in DoD.

My bad in posting before completing my train of thought. I see Draconus as another player in the Mutually Assured Destruction theatre. He's also not the same Elder who went into the sword as Toll the Hounds clearly shows us. His perspective is itself altered slightly and through that we have ourselves a true wildcard, as is Ganoes Paran, and one whom I am awaiting to see great and noble things from.

[L'oric]

I think that the meeting between the Errant and Paran will not go a conventional route. My guess will be that the Errant is in no way capable of dealing with Paran at all and all these clever manueverings and what not will prove themselves uneffective. Sort of like when Silchas Ruin went to Letheras to exact revenge and was batted aside, a blip or a bump in the road to the Malazan conquest.

This is Paran's/Hood's and Shadowthrones gambit. Three arrows fired at a target we know little about. Tavore and the Bonehunter's and Tool's Imass and Draconus are players placed on the board. I think the idea of don't mess with mortals is still alive in the series and so I tend to lean to the Bonehunters/Paran's Host as being the biggest factor in the eventual outcome.

Sincerely

[Paran]

While they are planning on surprising Paran, Ganoes was instrumental in what happened to Dragnipur - speaking to Draconus, getting a handle on Rake, the Deal with Hood (the map cartographer used to get to Dragnipur), these all required his input. I hope he is in tCG, I've definitely missed him.

[pat5150]

Can't say anything about Paran...

But I do know that he isn't anywhere near Kolanse or Assail...

Patrick