[Kanubis]

Steve Halter, on 14 January 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 14 January 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

didn't they leave kiska and leoman dripping blood? maybe because they're not real bloodflies they can't lay eggs in the wounds, but i'm sure that they took a few chunks outta the two of them.

That was my guess. leoman called them bloodflies, but they were really just another nasty biting fly.
Or, it could have been that since they were part of a d'ivers they weren't laying eggs.

Subspecies and all that.


I wouldn't want to be near a European Hornet, but I sure as hell wouldn't swap it for an Asian Giant Hornet...

Oh and the Letherii woman on the boat. Featherwitch was born a slave. By the time the fleets set out to find people to fight their lovely Emperor, they could quite conceivably have recruited Letherii who weren't born of slave stock. I'm sure they still wouldn't get the comfiest chair in the evening or anything, but could possibly have greater esteem than Featherwitch.

Besides, maybe part of the reason Featherwitch was treated like that was because she was such an objectionable uberbitch.

This post has been edited by Kanubis: 18 January 2011 - 07:28 AM

[Abyss]

Roldom, on 18 January 2011 - 12:02 AM, said:

the jaghut are native to wu, there constantly pointed out to be one of the 4 elder races that evolved on wu, where as the tiste are constantly said to be invaders
...

The Jaghut are one of the 4 'founding races' (the other thre being K'chain, Forkrul and Tlan Imass) said to have developped civilizations before the humans ever did, but that by no means equals them being native to Malazanland. It just means they got there early. The T3 were around at the same time. Per RCG it appears the Thel Akai had a civilization even before then but aren't even remembered. Per MoI the K'chain self destructed when they tried to REcreate the Nah'ruk, who were apparently from another world entirely. And then there's the Eres... *head 'splodes*

Paran, on 18 January 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

...As for ICE's "nice touches" I just don't feel we ever got past the skin of any character...

Oh c'mon... Suth? Rillish? Kiska? Hiam? Corlo?!?
And sideways through others Greymane, the Black Queen.... frikkin IRON BARS???

Sure there were some 'disappointments'... Ivanr maybe... Shell certainly, Bakune, Leoman perhaps, Shadowthrone was there but we didn't learn anything 'new' about him unless you count covertousness when it comes to fish... but there was a tonne of character development and characters evolving through the story. Suth emphatically does not end the book the way he starts it. Rillish redeems himself. Hiam doesn't. Iron Bars is even more hardcore than he started.

Quote

...Kyle was a lot better, and Ussu and Boron were done well,

Agreed.

[D'rek]

Kanubis, on 18 January 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Steve Halter, on 14 January 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 14 January 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

didn't they leave kiska and leoman dripping blood? maybe because they're not real bloodflies they can't lay eggs in the wounds, but i'm sure that they took a few chunks outta the two of them.

That was my guess. leoman called them bloodflies, but they were really just another nasty biting fly.
Or, it could have been that since they were part of a d'ivers they weren't laying eggs.

Subspecies and all that.


I wouldn't want to be near a European Hornet, but I sure as hell wouldn't swap it for an Asian Giant Hornet...

Oh and the Letherii woman on the boat. Featherwitch was born a slave. By the time the fleets set out to find people to fight their lovely Emperor, they could quite conceivably have recruited Letherii who weren't born of slave stock. I'm sure they still wouldn't get the comfiest chair in the evening or anything, but could possibly have greater esteem than Featherwitch.

Besides, maybe part of the reason Featherwitch was treated like that was because she was such an objectionable uberbitch.

I think people are falsely remembering FW being treated far better than she was. She was a slave and got beaten a lot, none of the Edur respected or cared about whatever power she had. For the Edur captain in RotCG to follow Sorrow's orders and ask her for her opinion is, IMO, completely different to how we've seen any Letheri treated by the Edur, nor have we seen any Letheri other than soldiers being taken along on the Edur fleets. It is certainly feasible that this particular Edur captain was not like the others and respected the opinions of a Letheri witch, but given how different it is from MT and RG, I think the scene in RotCG wrongly gave the impression that she was Edur (or at least failed to show she was Letheri).

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Abyss, on 11 December 2010 - 07:17 AM, said:

YOU'RE A MEAN ONE, MISTER REL: Y'know what's really funny to me? Despite not even appearing in this book, Emperor Mallick seems to be doing a fine job.

I haven't read the entirety of this thread -- I haven't got time right now, so I don't know if anyones mentioned it but I'd like to say that since RotCG my opinions of Mister Rel are divided.

On one hand, right the way through the series pre-RotCG, he was a right bastard and I absolutely hated him. He was a scheming arsehole with no concern for anything but himself, and no doubt he still is BUT on the other hand, we've seen nothing but success for the Empire under his leadership, since, and I find my self thinking well he's not that bad, is he?

The question, then, is were we misled to believing he was an arsehole or are we now being lulled into a full sense of security before he pulls some dirty trick out of his, um...arse?

[Sinisdar Toste]

well, what need dirty tricks now that he's the emperor? other than hamstringing rivals, he's probably just gone go on being a kick ass emperor. all his dirty tricks early in the series were for the sole purpose of propelling himself to the throne.

[Abyss]

Green Pig, on 21 January 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Abyss, on 11 December 2010 - 07:17 AM, said:

YOU'RE A MEAN ONE, MISTER REL: Y'know what's really funny to me? Despite not even appearing in this book, Emperor Mallick seems to be doing a fine job.

...The question, then, is were we misled to believing he was an arsehole or are we now being lulled into a full sense of security before he pulls some dirty trick out of his, um...arse?

I totally think that at heart, Mallick Rel is only looking out for Mallick Rel.

Sinisdar Toste, on 21 January 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

well, what need dirty tricks now that he's the emperor? other than hamstringing rivals, he's probably just gone go on being a kick ass emperor. all his dirty tricks early in the series were for the sole purpose of propelling himself to the throne.

'Kellanved'. Need i say more?

[Evergreen]

K so is it just me or did Rillish touch the little girl holding a piece of the lady, then faint.

The first thing we hear about his fall is that it was far enough onto sharp rocks that there was no way he survived.
On top of that Devaleth has a freakout after that about anyone touching the box.
Seeing as the girl holding is explicitly mentioned to be possessed by the power of said piece but that she can survive it,
Doesn't that imply that Rillish may have been possessed by the Lady.

When the fisherman get his body they weren't really close to the cliffside, and he was caught in a net underwater,
that would be pretty hard to survive. Really I'm just wondering if anyone else noticed this.

Forgot about the Stormrider part, that probably rules it out, nevertheless.

This post has been edited by Nimander Golit: 21 January 2011 - 10:20 PM

[Wampyry]

Well, I finally finished Stonewielder and my overall impression is disappointment. I thought the book title was an indication that the storyline would include Greymane. The man was barely in the book.
I expected to read some history about Greymane, how he got involved in the Malazan invasion of Korelri, how he met the Storm Riders, why and how did he betray everyone by talking to the Riders, why did Hiam allow him to leave Korelri, when did he meet up with the Crimson Guards, what so special about his sword that he can call it up at will, etc, etc.

The Storm Riders, a very interesting race of people, are not written about.

Spoiler

In NOK a Rider takes human shape. In DOD a human takes Rider shape

Certainly would like to know about them.

Stormwielder is not a bad or uninteresting book, but it was not what I hoped for. I am not looking forward to Esslemont's next book.

[Sinisdar Toste]

well, seeing as how the next book is set in darujhistan, a place that has been very well fleshed out in books up to this point, hopefully ICE can slide into it and focus more on plot and climax and less on world-building and character introduction. i think everyone who's read SW has come away with three general issues: not enough greymane, no clear reveal on the nature of the lady and not enough insight into the riders. i found it to be very well written and, at times, engrossing, but as you say, it could have benefited from some more attention to certain aspects.

as for the next novel, i am looking forward to it, as i don't think ICE can do anything but keep improving. his style and prose have improved with each book and the things that people are put out about are things that he has consciously chosen to either address or not address. as frustrating as that can be, it's his choice, and i'm sure he had reasons that were good enough from him.

[Marcule]

Just finished SW as well, while I enjoyed it and think it well worth the read, I thought RCG much more entertaining and interesting, and so was disappointed only because most opinion that SW is ICE best work to date. All things considered, it is a moot point. There seems to be a theme here of ordinary folk put into extraordinary circumstance, forced into positions they thought above their station in life and come out ahead (sometimes seeming by accident) even though in the face of all their self doubt and 'im not worthy' self reflections (Suth, Ivanr, Bakune.) Suth more than anyone else. I find it both interesting and at the same time--somewhat boring. Suth's only real accomplishment being saving Devaleth. Most of everything that happenes to him seems to be what would happen to me if I was in his position, which I suspect was the intent of the character. Foremost being how he worry's about the people around him being the weak link when it turns out to be him due to his lack of trust/faith in those around him (the test battle with the Moranth Blue before they reach Korel) He seems to get beat down and wakes up saved by others more than anything else.

Now I hold in my grubby little hands The Crippled God. I opened the cover to peak at the map only to think 'Oh WTF! That map sucks!' But then the stupid-shit grin creeps back on my face and I start petting the cover again. I almost don't want to read it... just hold it and caress it. Insane is all a matter of perspective in the end.

[Lady Bliss]

I'm a little disappointed by the negative comments for this book. I thought it was great! Yes, ICE writes differently from SE, but I was good with the difference in styles, and as others have posted, you can see that his writing has evolved since NOK.

My thoughts...

Stormriders are definitely some kind of Tiste. I'm thinking Liosans that were left behind since they sealed off Kurald Liosan. There has been some mention that this is why we don't see much of them in the books. Maybe they couldn't go back for some reason and went mad?

I have no issue with Kyle. If you are ok with Ben then Kyle is just as acceptable. So it sounds like a mundane Earth type name. Personally I subscribe to the monkeys typing on typewriters theory that eventually the works of Shakespeare will be reproduced. Throw together random configurations of consonants and vowels, and you'll eventually get Barak Obama .

I'm surprised that no one else is excited about the further development of the Crimson Guard! I feel like that is a group of characters that I can enjoy following like the Bridgeburners!

[Azathmaster]

About the stormrider tiste relationship theres a thread about that. here:
http://forum.malazan...=1

This post has been edited by Azathmaster: 11 January 2012 - 12:53 AM

[Azathmaster]

Paran, on 18 January 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

...As for ICE's "nice touches" I just don't feel we ever got past the skin of any character...

Oh c'mon... Suth? Rillish? Kiska? Hiam? Corlo?!?
And sideways through others Greymane, the Black Queen.... frikkin IRON BARS???

Sure there were some 'disappointments'... Ivanr maybe... Shell certainly, Bakune, Leoman perhaps, Shadowthrone was there but we didn't learn anything 'new' about him unless you count covertousness when it comes to fish... but there was a tonne of character development and characters evolving through the story. Suth emphatically does not end the book the way he starts it. Rillish redeems himself. Hiam doesn't. Iron Bars is even more hardcore than he started.


Hiam redeemed himself in my eyes. He realized that the Lady was using the stormguard and that all they did was for nothing so he was all like, "This'll be a beautiful death, jumpin out the windooow, letting evrythin goooo. lettin enrythin goooo."
Kanye west reference.(Power)

[worry]

While ICE is a much more mixed bag than SE in terms of folding that kind of stuff into his characters, I do think Hiam is one of ICE's best characters, for sure. Possibly my favorite (though Temper gives him a run for his money).

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

While this topic is up- and I shouldn't be on here because I haven't read the book and it kindly has been made rather clear by Abyss in his very first post that there are spoilers in this thread, but: what's the consensus on the reading order, where does SW go? Before DoD or after TCG? Ta!

[Abyss]

Miss Savage, on 11 January 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

While this topic is up- and I shouldn't be on here because I haven't read the book and it kindly has been made rather clear by Abyss in his very first post that there are spoilers in this thread, but: what's the consensus on the reading order, where does SW go? Before DoD or after TCG? Ta!

While either works, i'd opt for SW before DoD. Certain events just flow better that way.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Abyss, on 11 January 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 11 January 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

While this topic is up- and I shouldn't be on here because I haven't read the book and it kindly has been made rather clear by Abyss in his very first post that there are spoilers in this thread, but: what's the consensus on the reading order, where does SW go? Before DoD or after TCG? Ta!

While either works, i'd opt for SW before DoD. Certain events just flow better that way.

I'll gladly read anything that puts another thousand pages between me and the inevitable end. Thus.... just placed the order! Thankyou

[Overactive Imagination]

Aptorius, on 11 December 2010 - 08:43 AM, said:

You know, your talk of Ivanr and the Army of Reform reminded me of something. I couldn't put my finger on it, but now I got it.

The reason why the Ivanr chapters annoyed me so much...

Those were my least favourite chapters as well.. mainly because they were really boring, poorly written battles (the ones outside Ring city). I don't know what it is with Esslemont, but sometimes his writing is super good and other times it seems really clunky and tedious. This tends to happen in action sequences.

Also, there was a part where the Malazan fleet was going to attack Korel/the wall and when they started the assault and were sending troops to shore.. that part was terrible. There was one part where Devaleth was like ''omg I don't know how we could possibly win this we're getting killed! I've been thinking about it for days and we have no chance what should we do!??!'' and then all of the sudden she's like ''oh yeah the moranth i totally forgot!!'' ... seriously wtf? how the fuck could she just forget about the moranth? doesn't make any sense at all.

Other than that I really liked about 90% of the book. Thought it was way better than RotCG.

[Overactive Imagination]

worrywort, on 11 January 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

While ICE is a much more mixed bag than SE in terms of folding that kind of stuff into his characters, I do think Hiam is one of ICE's best characters, for sure. Possibly my favorite (though Temper gives him a run for his money).

Yeah Hiam was really good. The best parts of SW happened on the wall. I also liked that engineer guy and his relationship with Hiam.

Also, when Shell was pushed out to fight the Stormriders for the first time.. that was fuckin amazing.. loved how ICE explained how the stormriders attacked.

The wall itself seemed really cool too.. how it was built and how I imagine it looking, and pretty much everything about it, including its destruction

[yuna_anomander25]

just finished, and I could say ICE improved on his writing, there's still some things which I found I didn't like but overall its good. Mostly ICE shines the most in telling stories that have only been touched upon briefly or just mentioned, like The Old Guard, Korelri, the Stormwall, Stormriders and etc,

now my comments:
-what's up with ICE with giving modern/earth names to his characters, we have Kyle, then we have Will, Allan, Ella, even June, so many,
-I'm with the rest that would have liked to know more about the Stormriders, and about the connection with the Riders and Tiste Liosan,
-would like to see too the final confrontation between Iron Bars and Skinner

hopefully I could immediately read Orb, Sceptre, Throne and to continue with Blood and Bone before the Assail book arrives