Malazan Empire: Abyss JUST FINISHED IT and needs a cold one now... - Malazan Empire

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Abyss JUST FINISHED IT and needs a cold one now... ...all the SPOILERS, twice the alcohol... Rate Topic: -----

#61 User is offline   Silk 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 05:42 PM

So in other words the canterbury crusaders (rugby team) are a religious nut group that chase a odd shaped ball around the field?

The original definition of Crusades etc was applicable for the time, however over time this word has changed to mean more than just a religious war and is in todays world a term for an action of a group of people or even one person who is on a mission to do something... like crusading for better health etc....
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#62 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:35 PM

View PostSilk, on 22 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

So in other words the canterbury crusaders (rugby team) are a religious nut group that chase a odd shaped ball around the field?

The original definition of Crusades etc was applicable for the time, however over time this word has changed to mean more ...


exactly, see also Mighty Crusaders comic, Crusade B5 spin-off tv series, song Children's crusade by Sting etc etc.

Put a different way, is the Black Queen character a ref to Chess, which doesn't exist in the Wuniverse?

I suppose the best argument for Ulrik's point would be the name 'Kyle' which irritated so many when RCG came out because it's such a 'real world' name, but i notice that point isn't being raised post SW because we've generally accepted it (and he became a much cooler character... :) ).
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
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#63 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:38 PM

And then ICE puts a dude called Will in SW.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#64 User is offline   Ulrik 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:49 PM

 

View PostAbyss, on 22 December 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:


I suppose the best argument for Ulrik's point would be the name 'Kyle' which irritated so many when RCG came out because it's such a 'real world' name, but i notice that point isn't being raised post SW because we've generally accepted it (and he became a much cooler character... :)  ).

Kyle´s name is still totally stupid...bud he has moustache and that counters everything.
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#65 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:21 PM

The revelation that his moustache was aspected to D'riss and gave him additional protection from the Lady was damn cool.
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
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#66 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:24 PM

Ah yes the much lauded spin-off to Stonewielder, "Stone-Mo: The Legend of the Stash".
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#67 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:37 PM

wasn't the original title supposed to be 'Stachewielder?


- Abyss, ...knows this will end badly...
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
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#68 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:38 PM

View PostAbyss, on 22 December 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

I suppose the best argument for Ulrik's point would be the name 'Kyle' which irritated so many when RCG came out because it's such a 'real world' name, but i notice that point isn't being raised post SW because we've generally accepted it (and he became a much cooler character... :) ).

Still bugs the shit out of me.

I came away from Stonewielder moderately satisfied, but feeling that ICE really, really needs a more challenging editor and to trust the reader sometimes.

I'm still toying with the idea of going full out obsessive in a week or so and breaking down every single chapter with my questions and thoughts - to try and push ICE to better heights. The potential for greatness is there in ICE, but the books just aren't living up to it.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
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#69 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 12:21 AM

Agreed. It like hes trying to hard to get Eriksons level of deep thought (for lack of a btter term) that hes lost some perspective.

This has to be treated like ICE first book really. NOK was only a short story and ROTCG used mainly Eriksons (I dont mean Erikson created them but he had already founded their personalities) characters. ICE created a good continent and set the scene with his own characters very well but just did not follow through with them. Bakune, Ivanr even the Storm Wall to an extent were never taken to their full conclusion.
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#70 User is offline   T'renn 

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 09:12 PM

View PostAbyss, on 22 December 2010 - 07:37 PM, said:

wasn't the original title supposed to be 'Stachewielder?


- Abyss, ...knows this will end badly...



So that's why Greymane didn't shave during the entire campaign..... getting a more potent weapon.

Makes Greymane have another meaning too...

-IhM Tayschrenn - Having second thoughts about a pun containing "Stonewiener"
...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.

-Fisher-


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Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,

Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven

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#71 User is offline   buddhacat 

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 09:29 PM

View PostAbyss, on 13 December 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

View PostD, on 11 December 2010 - 10:00 PM, said:

..."she could have easily altered her appearance" - I don't buy it. IMO, if she were capable of that either The Lady would have smited her or she would have been capable of not getting captured/beheaded. I don't think she's really that kind of witch, more of a seer-type then a warren type. Either way though, if ICE truly inteded for the Priestesses to be the same and for her to be illusorily human in this one, there should at least have been some comment on it somewhere, like turning grey after she's beheaded or something.


Which leaves it open either way really, and not all that important.Are you dissappointed that ICE didn't establish that it was the edur girl or that it wasn't?





The glossary at the end says the Priestess was Letherii, so it's really either a mistake (that she should have been Edur) or someone other than the one in Return.

Buddhacat
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#72 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 05:40 AM

View Postbuddhacat, on 25 December 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

The glossary at the end says the Priestess was Letherii...


i totally did not see that. rep for powers of observation.

Still that doesn't preclude her being Edur, even so.
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
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#73 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 03:07 PM

Perhaps, but how many Edur women have we seen with the fleets? We've witnessed three separate Edur naval contingents I'm pretty sure (Binadas in the Nascent, Tomad's fleet and the two ships Traveller butchers off the Korel coast), and two of them have featured 'witch-women', Sorrow and Feather Witch, and both have been young and Letherii. We've only seen male warlocks with the Edur raiding parties, and as far as I can recall the Edur women are never referred to as 'witches', only the Letherii.

View Postpolishgenius, on 20 December 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 20 December 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

I dunno, between the Stormwall collapsing and the CGrd, fishers and Hiam's perspectives on the wave i thought it was bighuge enough.


My problem was with the writing, not with the stuff itself. It's a matter of taste, I just didn't think ICE captured the scale that well.

Looking back I felt like I really got a picture of what was happening, and I feel ICE deserves kudos for achieving that. I think the multiple POVs from places around the entire subcontinent really hammered home to the reader the actual scale of what was happening. This was a mind-bogglingly massive 'natural' disaster, with tidal waves spanning hundreds, if not thousands of leagues of coastline. I can see your point, even if I don't agree with it, but in any case, ICE definitely handled this event much better than SE handled the 'world-ending' disaster in BH. At the time that did not seem to have nearly the scale of repercussions that SE had led us to expect, yet with ICE's the devastation and the consequences are immediate, and the long-term repercussions well-alluded to.

I also thought Greymane's POV in that was well done, and I saw an interesting parallel with Coltaine. Afterwards he was both revered and reviled by both the Empire and his enemies, and it seems Greymane will be both revered and reviled for his actions. Though I'm annoyed by his cliffhanger death. Reminded me all too much of (DRESDEN FILES SPOILER)
Spoiler

View PostAbyss, on 14 December 2010 - 04:41 PM, said:

Was anyone else perplexed by Lazar, who seemed intermittently to be huge, short, a leader and a barely communicative brawler? And back in NoK weren't we told, tho briefly, that he was big on full faceless armour or am i mis-remembering?

From Nok:

Quote

'Then another Guardsman came out of the night. I'll never forget the way he stepped from the darkness ...like some fiend out of Hood's own Paths. His surcoat shone in the flames like fresh blood. Lazar it was, with his visored helm and black shield. We fought, but it was no use...' Larkin slapped his game leg and shook his head.

From SW:

Quote

The spokesman gestured to the tallest of them, a great thick warrior in a mail shirt that hung to his ankles, a wide shield on his back, and a helm tied to his belt.


Quote

Lazar drew off his full helm and steam plumed in the frigid air from the sweat soaking his hair and running down his face. He drew in great breaths, blowing and gasping; then, peering out over the inlet, he froze. ‘
Damn Hood...’

He's consistently described as tall, and I can't remember him being particularly tacit. Not really a brawler either, as he's shown multiple times to be able to handle two Stormguard at once. Didn't notice any inconsistency.

This post has been edited by MTS: 27 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

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#74 User is offline   Iccarium 

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:41 PM

I think this book may have the least anticlimactic/disappointing ending of any book I have read. I enjoyed the book up till then but was left feeling completely unsatisfied with how little was explained. I honestly thought they forgot to include the final chapter or something.
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#75 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 06:51 AM

there seem to be two non-endings... Kiska and Leoman sitting in a tree on the edge of chaos, and the near complete lack of explanation for what was up with the Stormriders.

That said, everything else was tied up - Bakune became middle management, Ivanr went to start a monastery, Rillish made it home, Suth is a corporal, Kyle went to Assail, Ipshank went back to his temple, manask went back to starting the trouble, the wall is broken, the Lady revealed and gone, Iron Bars and Corlo freed...

...and while the placid cliffhanger was kind of dull for Kiska and Leoman, that was clear setup, which leaves us with one thing and one thing only, albeit a BIG thing... the Stormriders.

And their story ended - the wall is broken, the Ladychunks gone - so ultimately, we didn't get the explanation we wanted, but the story was tied up.

I suppose that in the context of accepting that not evenrything in this series will be explained, I can live with that, but i would have liked more, possibly because ICE did make them so interesting.


@MTS - your quote fu is strong, of course, and perhaps i'm mistaking the description i'm thinking of. I'll hunt it down on the reread.
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
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#76 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 07:42 AM

View PostAbyss, on 30 December 2010 - 06:51 AM, said:

there seem to be two non-endings... Kiska and Leoman sitting in a tree on the edge of chaos, and the near complete lack of explanation for what was up with the Stormriders.

Didn't Kiska and Leoman end up on the Shore? They're probably farther down it than the Shake in Kharkanas, but it seems like a good place for them and Tayschrenn to pop up for The Crippled God.

Mother Dark, Tayschrenn, Yedan Derryg, some gigantic dragon, Twilight, the Shake, Kiska, Leoman, some gigantic figure seen at the end of Stonewielder, Withal, Withal's bitchy Tiste Andii wife, the Nachts, potentially the Tiste Liosan etc.

That's a pretty good convergence building there.
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#77 User is offline   GingerBreadMan 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:41 AM

View Postamphibian, on 30 December 2010 - 07:42 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 30 December 2010 - 06:51 AM, said:

there seem to be two non-endings... Kiska and Leoman sitting in a tree on the edge of chaos, and the near complete lack of explanation for what was up with the Stormriders.

Didn't Kiska and Leoman end up on the Shore? They're probably farther down it than the Shake in Kharkanas, but it seems like a good place for them and Tayschrenn to pop up for The Crippled God.

Mother Dark, Tayschrenn, Yedan Derryg, some gigantic dragon, Twilight, the Shake, Kiska, Leoman, some gigantic figure seen at the end of Stonewielder, Withal, Withal's bitchy Tiste Andii wife, the Nachts, potentially the Tiste Liosan etc.

That's a pretty good convergence building there.



Has there been any discussion about WHO the giant figure is?

Am I the only one thinking the Azath builder?
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#78 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 05:31 PM

It seems to be a dragon we haven't yet seeen/heard of
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#79 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 06:49 PM

From what we saw with the depositing of Rillish at the fishing vessel I think that the storm riders now have access to all of the seas of WU. Unfortunately we didn't learn about what brought them to Wu or what their ultimate aim is. It does look like they might be hunting the crippled god though.
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#80 User is offline   WhiskeyJackDaniels 

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:43 AM

I finally got the book and just finished it earlier today...most of the stuff has been mentioned upthread, but I just figured I'd post here to give my comments/questions

On the importance of the Ivanr storyline...This part didn't really interest me either, maybe if I could have definitively figured out who the Priestess was it woulda been cooler, but as it was I dreaded these parts. I think the importance of this storyline was the Army of Reform taking Ring city, and Ivanr being a revered enough person to be listened to when they needed to evacuate to high ground. Also, his vow of no longer killing people was introduced because that was the best way to hurt the Lady. I know they killed a shitload of people during the battles, but Ivanr is the only person that was able to stop a mass killing/suicide of hundreds or thousands of people inside the sanctified temple of the Lady. I'm not sure exactly what that would have done, but perhaps it would have been enough for her to save more than once piece or allow the Stormguard to overcome the Crimson Guard at the wall. That is probably why Beneth swore a similar vow decades before the book...he found out that blood sacrifices helped the Lady gain strength.

I had wondered why SE said that SW was best read before TCG, now I guess we know. I was not expecting the Crippled God to play any role in this book, though I guess I should have after reading the prologue. My problem was I had always thought that the Stormriders were somehow birthed by the Fall, but now my thoughts are maybe they got pulled down in the wake of the Crippled God, and their enmity extends back to their old realm.

On Kiska's expedition...I'm shocked at how naive she still is. I really figured that was done after NoK. Its interesting how SE/ICE like to give the most important revelations/events in the pov of only one or two characters detouring from the main armies and civilizations. I'm really interested in them finding Tayschrenn on the First Shore right before that army of TL decide to attack the shake. And I have no idea what that giant was...but I'm intrigued.

I don't think that Skinner and Iron Bars will meet up (or at least be resolved) in TCG. We found out in DoD that the heart of the crippled god is in Kolanese, and I think as long as that gets dealt with the fact that a random chunk is still around won't necessarily be enough for him to remain sentient or alive. Maybe he'll just leave the House of Chains as his legacy.
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