[Sir Thursday]

Iran seems to have taken up trolling: http://www.guardian....g-fees-protests

[The Tyrant Lizard]

 Jenisapt Rul, on 10 December 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

Yeah, how dare these angry people getting shafted by their government protest! What is this, some kind of democracy or something!? They should obviously be killed for such an affront to this bastion of aristocratic superiority.

Yes, the protest was getting out of hand, but seriously, how stupid would you be to send any authority figure through a group of disgruntled citizens and not expect an aggressive reaction.

No ones saying there's anything wrong with protesting are they? Are you suggesting that people should be allowed to smash up private property, attack police officers, attack police horses, endanger peaceful protesters, and attack the heir to the throne because the government that was voted in by many of them has betrayed them?

Some people on here are a bit blinded by the fees thing. I don't really care about that. I have a major problem with people rioting and endangering others with there stupidity. Is anyone on here actually defending the rioters? because if not, you could have fooled me.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

 Mezla PigDog, on 13 December 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

 The Tyrant Lizard, on 10 December 2010 - 12:11 PM, said:

You think attacking the heir to the thone of Enlgald is a trivial matter?

Considerably more trivial than forcing the youth of the country into thousands of pounds worth of debt in order to get on in life. I've never seen a more fitting example of the haves and the have nots in this country. I hope Camilla did get poked with a stick, those of us not born into a life of privilage have experienced worse at the hands of our fellow citizens, I'm sure. They will get over the car being trashed, they didn't pay for it and they're familiar with the smell of fresh paint.

You think it's more trivial attacking the heir to the throne than putting up tuition fees in the middle of a recession? They dont have to go to university to get on in life you know.

By you remarks condoning the attacks of charles and camilla I'd say your views border on the idiotic

This post has been edited by The Tyrant Lizard: 14 December 2010 - 12:58 PM

[Aptorian]

First of all, I would probably go back and edit those last couple of posts Tyrant. I think you need to take a breather. When you begin to feel the need to throw personal insults at the other guy, it's time to take a step back. Even if Cougar has called you a nasty name there's no need to bring it with you into the thread.

Report it to a moderator if you believe it was uncalled for or take it up with him in a PM. After all personal attacks is a violation of the forums code of conduct.

 The Tyrant Lizard, on 14 December 2010 - 12:51 PM, said:

 Jenisapt Rul, on 10 December 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

Yeah, how dare these angry people getting shafted by their government protest! What is this, some kind of democracy or something!? They should obviously be killed for such an affront to this bastion of aristocratic superiority.

Yes, the protest was getting out of hand, but seriously, how stupid would you be to send any authority figure through a group of disgruntled citizens and not expect an aggressive reaction.

No ones saying there's anything wrong with protesting are they? Are you suggesting that people should be allowed to smash up private property, attack police officers, attack police horses, endanger peaceful protesters, and attack the heir to the throne because the government that was voted in by many of them has betrayed them?

Some people on here are a bit blinded by the fees thing. I don't really care about that. I have a major problem with people rioting and endangering others with there stupidity. Is anyone on here actually defending the rioters? because if not, you could have fooled me.

A mob is whole different animal than your usual group of citizens. If you get enough angry people together the pressure rises and they WILL lash out. Most of those people are probably going to be thinking back on the shit they've done in a year with shame, because they know defacing public property is the opposite of winning the argument. But that is the kind of shit that happens when you get a lot of young, drunk and angry guys together. Shit gets fucked up.

The fault is with the bodyguards. Charles should never have been within a mile of that mob.

But of course, it does piss me off when mobs start breaking other peoples stuff. I've always been of the opinion that when the mobs start to get destructive they should be given an order to clear out. If they don't, arrest the whole lot of them, tally the amount of damages, and give them a fine that will pay for the damage to peoples property. Also set up some meetings so that they are forced to face the people whose shops and cars they ruined for fun.

This post has been edited by Jenisapt Rul: 14 December 2010 - 01:19 PM

[The Tyrant Lizard]

 Jenisapt Rul, on 14 December 2010 - 01:15 PM, said:

First of all, I would probably go back and edit those last couple of posts Tyrant. I think you need to take a breather. When you begin to feel the need to throw personal insults at the other guy, it's time to take a step back. Even if Cougar has called you a nasty name there's no need to bring it with you into the thread.

Report it to a moderator if you believe it was uncalled for or take it up with him in a PM. After all personal attacks is a violation of the forums code of conduct.

I stand corrected. I have removed the post as I can see it's inapropriate.

[Cougar]

Personal attacks are a violation of forum code in thread, personal disagreements are for the people involved to sort out and up to their own discretion. As you say we have taken this to the PM.

[Mezla PigDog]

 The Tyrant Lizard, on 14 December 2010 - 12:51 PM, said:

Some people on here are a bit blinded by the fees thing. I don't really care about that. I have a major problem with people rioting and endangering others with there stupidity. Is anyone on here actually defending the rioters? because if not, you could have fooled me.

I feel a degree of sympathy for the rioters. From what I can make out, some are the kind of anarchist nobs that show up to any old demo to cause trouble, some are bored little Tarquin's but a lot of them are 6th form kids from inner city London who see the system shafting them by taking away their Education Maintenance Allowance. If you were 16 or 17 in this country, all you would have directly experienced about politics are the lies about the Iraq war, the expenses scandal and now politicians reneging on election promises. It doesn't surprise me If the only way they can figure out to show their frustration is to have a bit of a riot.

Personally, I'm really pissed off at the baby boomers: they got everything for free, horded all of the wealth and property, fixed the system to benefit themselves and pulled up the ladder behind them. If a bunch of kids want a riot, then it's fine by me until they start organising themselves enough to take petrol bombs (although with the price of fuel in this country, that would be an unwise use of their student loans). It's been nothing so far, we can rely on the media to spin it into something that sells newspapers and justifies their existance.

 The Tyrant Lizard, on 14 December 2010 - 12:57 PM, said:

They dont have to go to university to get on in life you know.

No, but they'll forever be behind the rich people who did go to university and that kind of injustice is as good a cause for a riot as I can think of.

Quote

By you remarks condoning the attacks of charles and camilla I'd say your views border on the idiotic

That may be so, but is it not more idiotic to be outraged by the fact that someone whose inherited wealth stems from centuries of taxation of the likes of you and me got into a bit of a scuffle in his free car on the way to a crappy little variety show? He could have missed Kylie! So Charlie got to see a bit of reality. I'm supposed to give a shit?

[Yellow]

Without jumping on any particular bandwagon...

The whole protest thing has always struck me as a complete contradiction. Leaving the specific issue to one side, if you have a peaceful protest then all you seem to get is a pat on the head. "Well done, you made your point, now let's move on to actual government". But if you "go violent", then you get "tut tut, these protesters are harming the cause they claim to stand up for".

In other words, protesting achieves approximately fuck all.

It gets you on the news, but it takes away from the issues you wanted to point out. It all seems completely pointless. There is no middle ground, either. The middle ground consists of something that gains no media attention or political recognition.

The whole thing is a mess.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

I direct you to the poll tax riots - they seemed to work pretty well.

[Horangi]

 Yellow, on 14 December 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Without jumping on any particular bandwagon...

The whole protest thing has always struck me as a complete contradiction. Leaving the specific issue to one side, if you have a peaceful protest then all you seem to get is a pat on the head. "Well done, you made your point, now let's move on to actual government". But if you "go violent", then you get "tut tut, these protesters are harming the cause they claim to stand up for".

In other words, protesting achieves approximately fuck all.

It gets you on the news, but it takes away from the issues you wanted to point out. It all seems completely pointless. There is no middle ground, either. The middle ground consists of something that gains no media attention or political recognition.

The whole thing is a mess.

While I understand your point, I think your statement reflects certain types of protests. Mass protests on the scale like those seen during the Orange Revolution etc, can be quite effective. The real problem with so many protests, is that only a small minority either agrees with the position or cares enough to override or overshadow the various other issues they care about.

[Cougar]

At the moment the government and the conservative (note small C) media establishment is getting away with telling lies about the protesters and the police are getting away with quite a heavy handed approach (although, given what I've seen and the fairly legal savvy nature of the protesters I'd be surprised if a couple of coppers aren't disciplined).

At the moment, the police are taking great pleasure in being able to abuse the students - there is always a deal of animosity between the two groups: the police are seen by students as over zealous, shit-thick, didn't do well enough at school, bullying, racist agents of the state and the police are jaded by perceived student laziness, their (juvenile) anti-authority attitude, seemingly habitual drunkenness and jealousy that one day many of them will be able to make more money than a copper (something I've heard said by some of the more idiot students in the past).

For instance the BBC last week were leading with the fact that 6 police men had been hospitalised and Charles had been distressed, yet they very rarely mentioned the 36 protesters who had been hospitalised, nor the tactics of riding mounted police at packed groups of people. They simply won't get away with that kind of bias and manipulation when it's not a group who are so easy to dismiss.

Regardless of all that, this will be the tip of the iceberg I think. It's easy to abuse and marginalise students as some of the mindless comments on here have shown. However, it won't be half as easy to kettle, lie, disparage and deflect attention away from several hundred thousand rioting public sector workers, mass civil disobedience etc.

I hear on the news that the police want to try and ban more protests. I can not express how much the police need to rethink this. It will only drag more protesters to the flag.

[Battalion]

 Cougar, on 15 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

At the moment, the police are taking great pleasure in being able to abuse the students.

You have proof of this absurd statement?

[pathos]

 Battalion, on 15 December 2010 - 11:27 AM, said:

 Cougar, on 15 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

At the moment, the police are taking great pleasure in being able to abuse the students.

You have proof of this absurd statement?

How can you be siding with the police after they took your cell phone and keep following you around after your abduction ?

[Cougar]

 Battalion, on 15 December 2010 - 11:27 AM, said:

 Cougar, on 15 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

At the moment, the police are taking great pleasure in being able to abuse the students.

You have proof of this absurd statement?

Only what I have seen with my own eyes. So eyewitness testimony, but why should you believe that? I was only there. It's hardly contentious anyway, the police are well known for disliking students, which I can hardly blame them for - students tend to be a disrespectful, noisy lot who cause the police no end of tedious, petty hassle.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

 Battalion, on 15 December 2010 - 11:27 AM, said:

 Cougar, on 15 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

At the moment, the police are taking great pleasure in being able to abuse the students.

You have proof of this absurd statement?

Cougar is certainly backed up by other witnesses and victims:

Jodi McIntyre talking to the BBC about being dragged from his wheelchair.

Alfie Meadows sustains brain injury due to police truncheon.

Peter Hallward's account (published by THE) of what he saw during the protests.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Everyone is stupid for behaving in the ways that they did.

Students: Write your MP, or something
Police: Pepper spray is not a toy, neither is your nightstick.

[Mentalist]

yawn
since when does writing your MP solve anything? that's expecting the system to actually work.

mind you, my last uni is renowned fro its altercations with cops (especially during Homecoming), so I may be a tad biased....

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 18 December 2010 - 10:40 AM

[MTS]

Generally writing your MP only works if said MP is willing to listen. From what I've read it seems a fair few aren't.

[Yellow]

Normally you would say the best way to let your MP know how you feel is to vote the fucker out. The problem though: what are the options? Let's say you voted Lib Dem and you're angry about the student fees. You can't vote for the Tories because it's their policy in the first place (and they're using the Lib Dems as bullet proof vests). Labour are the bastards who brought the original tuition system in back in 1997/8, so they're not on your side either. A vote for anyone else is a waste of a vote.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

And even then, you only have the chance to vote once every five years. If you live somewhere like Winchester, then a Tory MP is always going to be returned no matter who you vote for anyway, so you're pretty much stuffed. Yay democracy