[Battalion]

'Students' are rioting in the streets of London.

They are unhappy that the government who has paid for them to go to university so that they can study for pointless degrees are taking away the funding.

I'm a working class bloke, but I fail to see why the government should be expected to pay for extra education. If you are an outstanding poor student, and show real promise (a+ all the way) a grant should be offered by the government as an investment in national talent. Failing these few outstanding students, if you want to doss around in uni' instead of going to work, pay for it yourself.

Back to the 'students' in the riots.

Most of these fuck ups are anarcists, not real students, and generally turn up at every protest in the land to try fucking with the police. There are pictures of them smashing up police vans, pissing up the side of the vans and giving interviews to reporters, whilst wearing riot police helmets, gathered from fleeing police.

It's an embarrisment to the police. They must stand by and watch while these retards kick the blue lights of the top of the vans to the frenzied cheers of the wankers in the crowd.

If I was in charge, justice would be swift. The first smart arse to climb on one of my vans would be mowed down with heavy machine gun fire. That would propably be the end of that.

People have a right to protest. Most of the people at the student protest were peaceful. But the anarcists there, who turn up like cockroaches at every march in the land, are vermin, and should be used for target practice.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

All of the 'student' rallies around here are always either union workers, political organizers' paid picketers (yes, they exist), or just local citizens.

[Aptorian]

In Denmark you're paid to study. A very small amount of money mind you, but still, Education is free and the Government will support you.

Mind you, currently the assholes that are currently in power, are doing some serious cutbacks all the while claiming that they want to strengthen education and claiming they want people to get finished with their educations faster. All the while they keep giving themselves a raise every 4 years, the fat bastards.

Education should be free, it should not be something you were charged for. A free education is a means of ensuring that anyone, no matter how poor or rich, will have the same chance of getting the education that they dream of and the life they chose. More importantly education broadens peoples horizons, if the majority of your population doesn't have anything but a elementary education, you're going to have a mass of down right ignorant plebs, that are nothing but tools for the elite.

That said, I agree with you on the rioters. The people who start those riots have nothing of value to add, they are just in it for the chaos. I've never understood how trashing other peoples cars and businesses proves any kind of point. If you do that kind of stuff you should be fined so hard your grand children will feel it.

[Ulrik]

Battalion, on 25 November 2010 - 08:08 AM, said:

...so that they can study for pointless degrees are taking away the funding...
...if you want to doss around in uni' instead of going to work, pay for it yourself...

Sorry mate, but I had enough of those stupid verb fucks during communist era in my country. "Fuckin intellectuals...let them work, fuckers!...to factory with those reactionaries!". 
This is insane. If you think that every student just want to spare few years in bed and pub, you are not better in judgement than most of rioters. FYI, I studied six years and five of those I worked. And for A plus theory...some of best or most revolutionary scientists were in many parts of studies average or awful.

I have no sympathy for those rioters...but I have also no sympathy for talks like yours. Its just other side of same coin. Blinded hate without informations. I thins you would like commies...

[Ulrik]

Aptorian, on 25 November 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:

Education should be free, it should not be something you were charged for. A free education is a means of ensuring that anyone, no matter how poor or rich, will have the same chance of getting the education that they dream of and the life they chose. More importantly education broadens peoples horizons, if the majority of your population doesn't have anything but a elementary education, you're going to have a mass of down right ignorant plebs, that are nothing but tools for the elite.

Nicely said, Apt.

[Battalion]

Apt, my point regarding further education is this:

A guy goes to school for x amount of years, and consistently fails his grades because he isn't the sharpest tool in the box, but also because he is too busy fucking around in class, bunking lessons, not doing his homework, and blah blah blah.
When his exams come round, he's done zero revision, because revision is for geeks, and he fails every single one of the tests. F.F.F.F.F.F.FAIL!
He then applied to go to university to further his education. He wants to study ... Sports Psychology, or some shit like that. Why should a government invest money in someone who has consistently proven that they are inept and incapible of knuckling down and studying? After four years, he may or may not graduate, or what ever, and the net result is loss of revinue.
A person such as this, is far better suited to an apprentiship, where they can get practical knowledge and one on one tuition.
I have no problem with investment in talent. If a person has potential, pay for them. If they don't, don't.

[Battalion]

[/quote]
I have no sympathy for those rioters...but I have also no sympathy for talks like yours. Its just other side of same coin. Blinded hate without informations. I thins you would like commies...
[/quote]

Fortunatly, I wasn't searching for sympathy, I was stating my opinion. Don't really see how my views are communist either, but hey.

When you live in a Wellfare State like me, where you're surrounded by freeloading scumbags who live in nicer houses, wear nices clothes and eat nicer food than you, even though they've never done a days work in the entire lives, and you work your fingers to the bone, six days a week, then you may understand my views on people who 'EXPECT' to have things given to them because they feel they are 'DUE' it.

You should have to earn things in life.

You want an education, knuckle down.

[Primateus]

I don't know about the universities in Britain, but here in Denmark there's usually some sort of minimum grade required before you can go to university. And if you fail your high-school you're definitely not going to continue in a university...

[Aptorian]

I agree that everyone is not suited for the typical lecture and test them approach to education, it is actually something that is up in the news currently here in Denmark, where trials have shown that people who are sent out to get some practical experience in a field before they begin their education are much more focused and have a better grasp of what they are actually working at.

How ever, the fact that some people are not suited for, or intelligent enough for, some schools, especially higher learning at a University is the very reason why people take exams in the first place. If your grades aren't high enough you just wont get in. I said that education in Denmark is free, how ever it is certainly not open for everyone. You need to have the right grades to get into your dream course. Things like medicine, law, engineering, etc. have very high demands because of their popularity and level of difficulty.

Lucky for me the expectations of a History student was not very high when I attended

But just because somebody might apply to and education and year after year fail and waste tax payers money doesn't mean you should scratch the whole system. Yes, there are people who exploit the system or waste the resources of the school, but for all the ones that fail there are hundreds or thousands of others who would never even have been able to try if it wasn't for the fact that it was free.

[Silencer]

Any University education system which you can enter when having failed high school is flawed from the get-go. That being said, you still need to allow people who have been out of school for a while access, but that's a simple age cut-off.

By the same token, people who are repeatedly failing University should be denied funding. You pass (within reason, of course) you get paid. You fail everything, you don't.

Other than that, what Apt said. Twice.

[worry]

Work is overrated as a measure of a person's worth, and "earning" education is a farcical concept.

[Gothos]

That depends where you draw a line for who has 'talent'. A+ across the board? That's slightly insane. And completely retarted. A free education system is the cornerstone for an informed and liberated society. University or college isn't just teaching you a trade like an apprenticeship would - it teaches you (at least the good ones) to organize yourself and your work, methodology, how to learn (because you NEVER stop learning in your life) more effectively. Very few of the people I know work in the fields they studied. But the bullshit that they offer in so called higher education (I have a rant or two about higher education and education in general) is still better than the alternative: a society of simplistic, limited rednecks.


As for rioters, I'll agree though. Riots should be reserved for shit that actually matters enough, like state repression.
Mind you, have you noticed how it's better to be a retard with a shovel than an academic when it comes to taking your point across to the government? It's sickening.

[Gothos]

Aptorian, on 25 November 2010 - 09:08 AM, said:

I agree that everyone is not suited for the typical lecture and test them approach to education, it is actually something that is up in the news currently here in Denmark, where trials have shown that people who are sent out to get some practical experience in a field before they begin their education are much more focused and have a better grasp of what they are actually working at.

Oh Gods please make this a standard in education. Mix learning with examples of practical application of knowledge.

[Kanubis]

Aptorian, on 25 November 2010 - 09:08 AM, said:

I agree that everyone is not suited for the typical lecture and test them approach to education, it is actually something that is up in the news currently here in Denmark, where trials have shown that people who are sent out to get some practical experience in a field before they begin their education are much more focused and have a better grasp of what they are actually working at.

Which makes me even more angry at the government's move to apply to a 'multiplier' to people's grades if they apply straight from er.. highschool? Gynamsium? Whatever you call it over here... Far more concerned with grinding people through the machine than getting the best out of people.

Venstre

[Ulrik]

 

Battalion, on 25 November 2010 - 09:00 AM, said:

Fortunatly, I wasn't searching for sympathy, I was stating my opinion. Don't really see how my views are communist either, but hey.

When you live in a Wellfare State like me, where you're surrounded by freeloading scumbags who live in nicer houses, wear nices clothes and eat nicer food than you, even though they've never done a days work in the entire lives, and you work your fingers to the bone, six days a week, then you may understand my views on people who 'EXPECT' to have things given to them because they feel they are 'DUE' it.

You should have to earn things in life.

You want an education, knuckle down.

In my country, my family is in rating between lower middle class and lower class...I debted myself for buying damned flat and I herited my car. You dont have to tell me how it is to live beside richer people:) And still... I feel rather with Apt, for in my humble...no, proud, opinion, education should be free, without locking in financial trap. One of best colleagues I knew has great ideas, solid results in school and lived in poverty. Damned, she bought "as a little pleasure" little can of fanta for half euro once a day and ate just canned food. And she wasnt forced to pay for school, she was just from poor family. So, cut her...

And no, you dont know how accurate are you in communist view on education of intelligence...lucky for you, believe me...

[Battalion]

worrywort, on 25 November 2010 - 09:36 AM, said:

Work is overrated as a measure of a person's worth, and "earning" education is a farcical concept.

What is facical is thinking you can get through life without work.

Work is the cornerstone of civilisation. Right from the very start, if you want to eat you work. If you work a bit harder, you have surpluss supplies, so you can trade, so you have income and food. If you work harder still, you can have people working for you, freeing up time so you can learn new skills.

This post has been edited by Battalion: 25 November 2010 - 10:02 AM

[Battalion]

Gothos, on 25 November 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

That depends where you draw a line for who has 'talent'. A+ across the board? That's slightly insane. And completely retarted. A free education system is the cornerstone for an informed and liberated society. University or college isn't just teaching you a trade like an apprenticeship would - it teaches you (at least the good ones) to organize yourself and your work, methodology, how to learn (because you NEVER stop learning in your life) more effectively. Very few of the people I know work in the fields they studied. But the bullshit that they offer in so called higher education (I have a rant or two about higher education and education in general) is still better than the alternative: a society of simplistic, limited rednecks.

For people who fall short of the grades, there are other options. For well off people, pay for your further education -- your mum and dad have got the money, so use it. For the less fortunate, sorry, get a job. See how swiftly cities decend into chaos when there are no bin men on the streets. In the 90s there was a garbage strike in New York and it caused massive disruption.
Just because people are not accademically gifted, doens't mean they don't have important rolls to play in society.

[Aptorian]

Kanubis, on 25 November 2010 - 09:46 AM, said:

Which makes me even more angry at the government's move to apply to a 'multiplier' to people's grades if they apply straight from er.. highschool? Gynamsium? Whatever you call it over here... Far more concerned with grinding people through the machine than getting the best out of people.

Venstre public/style_emoticons/Malazan/veryangry.gif

I've just settled with the fact that all Politicians are full of shit. They'll spout a lot of shit about their "values" and how much the care about this and that, and then the next week they'll fuck over an entire demographic and say it is for their own good. Just look at all the student housing being built around the University on Amager. It's all designer housing that costs 3000+ a month and can hardly house any students at all. Mean while they wont give a student more than 5000 a month to live on, they don't want them to have a part time job and they wont build more homes for the students that is actually affordable. How they hell does this make sense.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Denmarks political parties need to be killed off because they no longer make any sense in the context of what they were born as. I want a "Students" party, run by students, or a "Young people" party, that I can vote for that I can be sure will do what they can to protect the students instead of all the bull shit coming from politicians that make a million a year and spend their time protecting their own ass and their 5 month vacations..

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 25 November 2010 - 10:04 AM

[Gothos]

Battalion, on 25 November 2010 - 10:01 AM, said:

For people who fall short of the grades, there are other options. For well off people, pay for your further education -- your mum and dad have got the money, so use it. For the less fortunate, sorry, get a job. See how swiftly cities decend into chaos when there are no bin men on the streets. In the 90s there was a garbage strike in New York and it caused massive disruption.
Just because people are not accademically gifted, doens't mean they don't have important rolls to play in society.

Oh but I agree with your point about everyone having a role to play. Personally I can't stand the amount of careers in bullshitting people, creating fake wealth, and how well that pays. But how I see it, the higher tiers should earn a lot less, and the lower ones should earn a lot more. There is, I think, a fundamental flaw in writing off low-education jobs as unimportant and therefore low paid. I think a mid-grade manager shouldn't earn more than 2-2.5 times more than the clerk crunching the numbers for him. As it is right now, he'll earn 8-10 times as much. The higher the tier goes, the greater the disproportion, and that is corrupt, unfair and inadequate.

But I'm opposed to making it harder for people to get education to even the numbers out. I'm supportive of the notion to make low-education jobs to be more appealing and competitive.
And make that goddamn education actually teach people something.

[Ulrik]

 

Battalion, on 25 November 2010 - 09:57 AM, said:

What is facical is thinking you can get through life without work.

Now Im a little bit confused. What is you definition of work? Only manual? Because only really small part of society can really get through life without work.