[Stingray]

You have been warned! - what follows is FULL of spoliers for the whole book.



OK, so thoughts on a few of the things that jumped out for me, in no particular order...

Iron Bars - poor guy! ICE and SE really have it in for him. Every time we see him he's getting a beating, but really - chained to a table, your chest cut open and a psycho mage squeezing your heart!?! And still he comes out on top and has the strength to challenge Skinner? Don't think I'd like to be Skinner right now - he has to add a seriously angry Bars to the Seguleh 2nd wanting to kill him. Which brings me on to:

Crimson Guard - where do they get their strength / life-force from? We know it's as a result of the vow, but when Ussu is just about to be killed by Bars:

Stonewielder p577-578 said:

he suddenly saw far into the wellspring of the inexhaustible might sustaining this Avowed, and he understood its source. He gazed at the man's twisted face.....appalled by the magnitude of the discovery. He opened his mouth, meaning to tell him - do you have any idea...

Seems to me there's more going on than just the vow. Are the Guard tapping into the strength of a god?


Skinner - yes, he has Iron Bars (and the rest of the Avowed) plus the 2nd wanting to kill him (and his Disavowed), but then he's the King in Chains, has magic armour, and a piece of the Crippled God in a box! Can't wait for that showdown!!!!

Stormriders - so they're good guys really and just wanted to destroy some fragments of the Crippled God which ended up in a box on Fist being defended by the Stormguard on behalf of the Lady? Or have I completely missed the point? Also, there's a nice bit of description of them towards the end if I can find it...yes, here we go:

Stonewielder p604 said:

Their armour appeared to be a mixture of their sorcerous scaled ice over mundane materials such as shell, cold-forged copper, and exotic hides. They were fair, with pale hair. The characteristic features she saw among the corpses reminded her of the Tiste Andii

Some relation to the Liosan?


The Lady - who she? Still not clear to me, but has apparently been working for the Crippled God for millenia.

Kyle - has turned into a serious force, thanks to his sword and friendship with Greymane. Grown up from the kid of RotCG. Hints that the he and his friends the Lost Boys from Assail are going to play a big part in future instalments, and I've got to say I can't wait!

Kiska - bit part player here, but one of ICE's recurring characters so expect her to take centre stage in one of the coming books.

Leoman - we knew he was up to something connected to the Queen of Dreams from Bonehunters. QoD and Agayla obviously trust him, but he still seems to be playing his own game.

Tayschrenn - we don't see him, but it's fairly clear he's still alive and has a big part to play in future books.


There's so much more I haven't remembered yet which will come on a re-read, but plenty to chew on!

[Adjutant Stormy~]

(covers his eyes)

I didn't even know it was out!

[Urizen]

Stingray, on 19 November 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

You have been warned! - what follows is FULL of spoliers for the whole book.



OK, so thoughts on a few of the things that jumped out for me, in no particular order...

Iron Bars - poor guy! ICE and SE really have it in for him. Every time we see him he's getting a beating, but really - chained to a table, your chest cut open and a psycho mage squeezing your heart!?! And still he comes out on top and has the strength to challenge Skinner? Don't think I'd like to be Skinner right now - he has to add a seriously angry Bars to the Seguleh 2nd wanting to kill him. Which brings me on to:

Crimson Guard - where do they get their strength / life-force from? We know it's as a result of the vow, but when Ussu is just about to be killed by Bars:

Stonewielder p577-578 said:

he suddenly saw far into the wellspring of the inexhaustible might sustaining this Avowed, and he understood its source. He gazed at the man's twisted face.....appalled by the magnitude of the discovery. He opened his mouth, meaning to tell him - do you have any idea...

Seems to me there's more going on than just the vow. Are the Guard tapping into the strength of a god?


Skinner - yes, he has Iron Bars (and the rest of the Avowed) plus the 2nd wanting to kill him (and his Disavowed), but then he's the King in Chains, has magic armour, and a piece of the Crippled God in a box! Can't wait for that showdown!!!!

Stormriders - so they're good guys really and just wanted to destroy some fragments of the Crippled God which ended up in a box on Fist being defended by the Stormguard on behalf of the Lady? Or have I completely missed the point? Also, there's a nice bit of description of them towards the end if I can find it...yes, here we go:

Stonewielder p604 said:

Their armour appeared to be a mixture of their sorcerous scaled ice over mundane materials such as shell, cold-forged copper, and exotic hides. They were fair, with pale hair. The characteristic features she saw among the corpses reminded her of the Tiste Andii

Some relation to the Liosan?


The Lady - who she? Still not clear to me, but has apparently been working for the Crippled God for millenia.

Kyle - has turned into a serious force, thanks to his sword and friendship with Greymane. Grown up from the kid of RotCG. Hints that the he and his friends the Lost Boys from Assail are going to play a big part in future instalments, and I've got to say I can't wait!

Kiska - bit part player here, but one of ICE's recurring characters so expect her to take centre stage in one of the coming books.

Leoman - we knew he was up to something connected to the Queen of Dreams from Bonehunters. QoD and Agayla obviously trust him, but he still seems to be playing his own game.

Tayschrenn - we don't see him, but it's fairly clear he's still alive and has a big part to play in future books.


There's so much more I haven't remembered yet which will come on a re-read, but plenty to chew on!

some random questions:
any explanation as to why the Seguleh second has it in for Skinner?
What is Kiska doing on Korel? Searching for Tay? I read somewhere that she's traveling with someone suprising, who is it? Leoman?
Do Shadowthrone/Cotillion or anyone connected to them appear?

This post has been edited by Urizen: 20 November 2010 - 12:08 PM

[The Dark Wanderer]

As the title clearly makes the point of SPOILERS I feel I can get away with answers to those questions, but remember SPOILERS!

Seguleh second does not appear nor is he mentioned in this book (and given the timeline stuff, ICE said running concurrent with TtH somewhere I remember), I suspect he's still with Hood.

Don't really know where you got the idea Kiska was on Korel. Her story occurred mainly in Shadow with a brief intro in Malaz. She may well have ended up on Korel, but that's unclear at the end of the book. Anyone whose read it, could you explain her story's end to me as I'm very confused by it?

Yes. Any more info is too big a spoiler I would argue.

[Urizen]

The Dark Wanderer, on 20 November 2010 - 01:04 PM, said:

As the title clearly makes the point of SPOILERS I feel I can get away with answers to those questions, but remember SPOILERS!


Don't really know where you got the idea Kiska was on Korel. Her story occurred mainly in Shadow with a brief intro in Malaz. She may well have ended up on Korel, but that's unclear at the end of the book. Anyone whose read it, could you explain her story's end to me as I'm very confused by it?

Yes. Any more info is too big a spoiler I would argue.

I suppose I got the idea from the fact that the book is centered on Korel, what with Stormriders an all

I didn't there where a thing like too big a spoiler

[Stingray]

The Dark Wanderer, on 20 November 2010 - 01:04 PM, said:

Don't really know where you got the idea Kiska was on Korel. Her story occurred mainly in Shadow with a brief intro in Malaz. She may well have ended up on Korel, but that's unclear at the end of the book. Anyone whose read it, could you explain her story's end to me as I'm very confused by it?

She ended up on the First Shore (between darkness and an ocean of light) with Leoman and a giant the size of a mountain. What they're doing there I'm as confused as you are for now! Clear set up for the next book, but the First Shore is where the Shake are in Dust of Dreams. Not sure they're there at the same time though and can't really see the two stories merging.

[Urizen]

So Leoman appears, What about Dunsparrow?

I read somewhere speculation that Agayala actually might be Jhess(Sp?), the godess of weaving, does her appearance shed any light on this?

What about Topper and Possum? like Kiska they seem to be reacurring characters in ICE's books.

[The Dark Wanderer]

There's a mildly humorous explanation from him regarding where Dunsparrow has got too.

Agayla doesn't appear to be a god, but does appear to worship the Queen of Dreams who it turns out isn't really a godess and is instead a worshipped ascendant such as Rake or Osserc although one who seems to take a more active role in the wider world.

Topper and Possum do not appear in Stonewielder.

.Sorry Stingray, did read that and the forgot it in stupidity, what I meant was how did they go from Shadow in chaos to Kuruld Galain and what happened to the mad mage they meet there? I didn't quite get what happened there?

[Stingray]

The Dark Wanderer, on 21 November 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

what I meant was how did they go from Shadow in chaos to Kuruld Galain and what happened to the mad mage they meet there? I didn't quite get what happened there?

They got to chaos from the Liosan camp with the help of Warran (Shadowthrone). In chaos they met Yathengar, the mage Tayschrenn was fighting at the end of RotCG. They got away from Yathengar by following the magic guide-bat which the QoD gave them to help them find Tayschrenn. We see Kiska jump off into a void, then the next thing we know they are at the First Shore.

It was all a bit confusing! What I took from it was:

- if Yathengar is in chaos, it's pretty much certain Tayschrenn is around as well. It's also obviously possible to escape from there as well as Kiska and Leoman did.

- there could be two reasons Shadowthrone was helping them search for Tayschrenn. Either he just wants to help out an old friend, or Tays has a part to play in Shadowthrone and Cotillion's master plan and they need him back. The latter idea would mean that Tays will appear in The Crippled God. I'm not convinced - certainly Cotillion implied that Shadowthrone had been wasting his time when they had more urgent work to do.

I'm not sure what was going on with the Liosan. They had a whole army to fight the void, apparently because it was touching their realm. They 'won', though I don't know what that really means, and L'Oric had taken a bit if a beating. Shadowthrone thinks 'there, well. That's one thing settled at least'. No idea what that 'one thing' was, or who gave L'Oric the beating.

As an aside, it occurs to me that Tayschrenn is a mage of Thyr, so maybe he could somehow use the fact that the whorl was touching Kurald Thyrllan?

[Urizen]

Any humorous characters/parts in the book? Kyle's sojurn into Shadow in ROTCG always cracks me up on rereads. Personally I don't see it but Nait/Jumpy was supposedly also a fun read.

[Veilside]

I was kind of disappointed in the book, until I got to the end. The almost throw-away line about the Lady being related to the CG just made it all make so much sense.

[Hetan]

I have been struggling with this but I hate the font which makes it hard to read. I have just received the transworld version which looks very nice so hopefully will get some serious reading done over the weekend.

[Varan]

The Dark Wanderer, on 21 November 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Topper and Possum do not appear in Stonewielder.

Reallllly??????


I think faro could be possum, or perhaps goss and faro are topper/possum,

Edit: why? the lieutentant sapper, urfaa? or something knows goss, and she ran into possum in RotCG.

And i'll admit, i was disappointed when jumpy didnt turn up

This post has been edited by Varan: 27 November 2010 - 05:37 PM

[Veilside]

Varan, on 27 November 2010 - 05:35 PM, said:

The Dark Wanderer, on 21 November 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Topper and Possum do not appear in Stonewielder.

Reallllly??????


I think faro could be possum, or perhaps goss and faro are topper/possum,

Edit: why? the lieutentant sapper, urfaa? or something knows goss, and she ran into possum in RotCG.

And i'll admit, i was disappointed when jumpy didnt turn up

I don't have Return at hand, but wasn't Goss the claw that was sent to kill Toc the Elder?

They're definitely not Topper/Possum.

[champ]

Veilside, on 28 November 2010 - 11:18 AM, said:

Varan, on 27 November 2010 - 05:35 PM, said:

The Dark Wanderer, on 21 November 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Topper and Possum do not appear in Stonewielder.

Reallllly??????


I think faro could be possum, or perhaps goss and faro are topper/possum,

Edit: why? the lieutentant sapper, urfaa? or something knows goss, and she ran into possum in RotCG.

And i'll admit, i was disappointed when jumpy didnt turn up

I don't have Return at hand, but wasn't Goss the claw that was sent to kill Toc the Elder?

They're definitely not Topper/Possum.

That was Moss but I guess it could be the same guy with a different name... Goss/Moss





Spoilers - obv by the thread name but just wanted to point out...





Quickly on the book, want to reread it before fully getting my head around all the details...

Finished the book last night and had a day to digest it... A big improvement on ICE writing style from RotCG and I devoured it wanting to know whats happening, definately one of the better books I've read this year but I still felt something was missing going by my gut feeling after I completed it.

The book jumps from character POV to character POV fairly quickly, whilst it kept a fast pace in the book and you wanting more... i also found that I was reading more about new characters than the ones I really wanted to read about, the continuation from RotCG...

Whilst this is fully understandable setting the background and creating a whole new story, creating a whole new continent for you to get to grips with I wanted to read more about Kiska, Bars, Blues, Tays etc, than geting to grips with the politics of the continent, but that is all personal preference! You do get their stories... But not enough for me! Gods even Jumpy wasn't even in the book and I was really looking forward to reading more, I guess he may be for future books...

But that is unfair on the new characters as ICE does a stand up job here, kept me entertained over the 600+ pages and again a top read, definately desevers it's place amoung the Malazan enteries, I thought it compared to a HoC for me and Im sure when I read it again I will grow to love it all the more!

I guess it's just us Malazan fans are so demanding!

Just whilst writing this, as a thought, if he had wrote RotCG like this, RotCG certainly would of been one of the top malazan books!

On to the contents of the book, will post more in detail when I've read again as this is all off the top of my head...

So...

Shadowthrone, I loved his deception in this book and him confirmed to rule Emurlahn... Or maybe ICE just using Emurlahn to describe shadow instead of Meneas where he is known to rule? Though I cant see him doing that...

Kiska/Leoman combo I read with much anticipation wanting/craved details on Tays but still to no avail! The part playing chicken with the hounds of shadow! Great! I cannot wait to see where the plot will go next with the Shore of Creation and the Giant (who the hell is that?!?!?) Will they jump into SE arc with Kharkanas,,,

Assail, Kyle... ICE keeps teasing us with more details, Kyle from Assail and has glowing amber eyes... More to add to the Assail thread now, definately sounds like a Jaghut upgrade Bole style for Kyle, was it just me or did the description of Kyle been described as squat body and long gangly arms/legs remind you of the Mott Irregulars? He seemed certainily to take some magic blasts and at first I thought it to be the sword but now I think its more to do with who he is!

Manask, ah Manask, congrats ICE for some sheer great moments of comedy, had me laughing out loud and he certainly goes on my favourite character list, I found myself page turning to find out when he would next be appearing, the same as I did with Tehol/Bug in MT! "Stealth Ninja" of the Malazan world...

The Lady/CG was well implemented and I take my hat off to ICE/SE for the whole plot arc/twist with the Koreli and the Storm Guard...

I could go on forever with random comments and I know I am missing 2 obvious ones I wanted to make but they have gone for now...

Now to RG... TtH, then SW will slot in nicely again before DoD in time for CG... addiction is a cruel thing...

This post has been edited by champooon: 28 November 2010 - 10:10 PM

[Hoods Balls]

The Giant on the Shore of Creation struck me as being the same Giant as in TtH. Since I haven't a clue who or what the giant was then Im not sure who he is now. ONe interesting thing is that currently Leoman and Kiska are laying on the beach while Kharkanas and Mother Dark has awaken (in DoD). A clash between the Liosan and the Shake/Watch seems imminent so I guess Leoman and Kiska turns up in CG?

[Veilside]

champooon, on 28 November 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

That was Moss but I guess it could be the same guy with a different name... Goss/Moss



Assail, Kyle... ICE keeps teasing us with more details, Kyle from Assail and has glowing amber eyes... More to add to the Assail thread now, definately sounds like a Jaghut upgrade Bole style for Kyle, was it just me or did the description of Kyle been described as squat body and long gangly arms/legs remind you of the Mott Irregulars? He seemed certainily to take some magic blasts and at first I thought it to be the sword but now I think its more to do with who he is!

Ah, that's the one.

I thought the magic thing was explained by Kyle having an amulet that belonged to Ereko.

[champ]

Veilside, on 29 November 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

champooon, on 28 November 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

That was Moss but I guess it could be the same guy with a different name... Goss/Moss



Assail, Kyle... ICE keeps teasing us with more details, Kyle from Assail and has glowing amber eyes... More to add to the Assail thread now, definately sounds like a Jaghut upgrade Bole style for Kyle, was it just me or did the description of Kyle been described as squat body and long gangly arms/legs remind you of the Mott Irregulars? He seemed certainily to take some magic blasts and at first I thought it to be the sword but now I think its more to do with who he is!

Ah, that's the one.

I thought the magic thing was explained by Kyle having an amulet that belonged to Ereko.

Yeh he had the protection of Ereko and "the stink of that bitch" referring to QoD protection, obv being her soldier but I wasn't sure whether the "amber eyes" was reflecting Ereko or something hidden within Kyle...

[Urizen]

Hoods Balls, on 29 November 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

The Giant on the Shore of Creation struck me as being the same Giant as in TtH. Since I haven't a clue who or what the giant was then Im not sure who he is now. ONe interesting thing is that currently Leoman and Kiska are laying on the beach while Kharkanas and Mother Dark has awaken (in DoD). A clash between the Liosan and the Shake/Watch seems imminent so I guess Leoman and Kiska turns up in CG?

Not to be difficult but care to enlighten me what giant turns up in TTH? granted It's been a while since reading TTH cover to cover but I can't remember any giants..

[Hoods Balls]

Been a while since I read it too but the scene Im referring to is when Kallor meets Gothos with Nimanders crew and Nimander himself is thrown into....something/another world where he meets a giant that builds big structures. I guess I need to read that part again..