[Terez]

Abyss, on 04 November 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

Terez, on 04 November 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

I don't really relate to that sentiment. He's hardly a 'random Darkfriend' just because he's not one of the Forsaken in disguise.

No, but imnsho the revelation that an established character such as Demandred (or whichever Foresaken is left) has pulled off the deception and subverted large chunks of BT out from under Rand would have more impact than a basic mwua-hah-ha traitor ploy.

Well, he basically has done that...through his lackey, Taim. Who is no longer his lackey. Furthermore, if you click the link I gave above, you'll see there's evidence that he's done the same with the Legion of the Dragon, and perhaps also a contingent of the 10,000 mercenaries currently surrounding Caemlyn.

[Aimless]

Jesus. I started re-reading EotW on friday, but on saturday I was overcome by the cravings and pounced on ToM (skipping tGS because it wasn't available). I was worried. I was worried it'd read like some [high-quality but] soulless fantasy-nerd fanfic. I was worried it'd just be a sequence of events leading up to the last battle. I was worried there'd be a lot of irritating man-vs-woman smackdowns as a result of years of pent-up frustration. I was certain the whole thing would feel extremely unnatural, esp- my beloved characters.

Holy crap. The last thing I expected was character development. Or that those characters would be made to experience such personal development. Yeah, I did feel the writer was really out of touch with Mat for part of the book (that hurt a little, because I'd really enjoyed his scenes in CoT). And yeah, there was something about the writing in the first half that occasionally reeked of nerd-generated fantasy. But these small flaws were more than made up for by the sensitive, loving and skilful way in which Sanderson handled Perrin's and Faile's story-arc, for example. I'd grown so frustrated with those two, didn't expect for a second that they'd end up being so thoroughly redeemed by this book. It's like he took them from Jordan and helped them develop into what they'd always been intended to become. I was impressed with how well Sanderson used Morgase, Galad and Gawyn. I was relieved by the way he managed to do Egwene justice by writing her as the complex awesome/aggravating character Jordan [imo] intended her to be. One of the reasons I love WoT is the way Jordan wrote eg. the Aes Sedai (esp. Egwene, Elaine and Nynaeve), so that, even as they kept making me angry they captured my interest and appreciation. I can't really put my finger on what it is, but Sanderson got it. He got the characters, and, although I felt like I'd lost some of them, I was compensated a dozen times over for those losses.

And then the plot. The action, the awesome. I've been reading this series for half my life. It's shaped so much of my life that I can't really decide if it's tragic or wonderful (leaning towards the latter, as it was this series that first took me online and opened up the world to me; and it was on this series I cut my analysis-teeth). I never thought I'd see the events of ToM. I never thought I'd really see the inside of the Tower of Ghenjei (GOD I loved that entire sequence!). I didn't dare believe I'd one day see mankind come together for the Last frickin' Battle.

I enjoyed MBotF, but WoT has recaptured my heart <3 reading ToM I was reminded of just how much I love Jordan's world, and also of some of the reasons why: the way it co-opts the entire body of Indo-European myth and folklore; the way it frames human history (both that which has been and that which surely will be). I feel like it plugs into/steals our history and our cultural memories in a subtle yet profound way that modern mega-epic fantasy doesn't really care to (not a criticism of modern fantasy, just an observation).

It took a long time for me to appreciate just how grim and pessimistic WoT is. Three thousand years of fighting and treachery and stupidity and greed, in the presence of the ultimate common uniting enemy. Three thousand years? Try an eternity. Happy endings? There can be no happy endings in the Wheel of Time. Nothing of value endures. Every evil is sure to come again. Souls never freed from the unending grind. Wrongs aren't righted a hundred thousand years down the Wheel. Rand/Rama/Vishnu/Jesus and thousands of others endure so much hardship to save the world, and a few generations later the Aiel fuck it all up (DAMN, btw, Rhuidean always delivers). If not the Aiel then you can be damned sure someone else will, and one turn later you just know the DO will be back to lick all over the Pattern and those poor sods will have to take him on all over again. I dunno, I'm still hoping this'll be the last time, but I wouldn't be disappointed if it isn't. Bring on the Last Ragnarok and the end of the Third Yuga. Ravana should thank his lucky Balefire to have escaped it

Will be interesting to see how it pans out. I thought Fel was trying to say that order strengthens the Pattern and/or the seals (and that Rand needs to bring about order for this reason).

This post has been edited by Aimless: 21 November 2011 - 06:43 PM

[Abyss]

Aimless, on 21 November 2011 - 06:32 PM, said:

...one turn later you just know the DO will be back to lick all over the Pattern and those poor sods will have to take him on all over again....

I can't quite explain why, but this cracked me up. Rep'd accordingly.

[Aimless]

Okay seriously does anyone know what price Moridin paid for Lanfear's release??

[Terez]

No clue. We don't even have a hint.

[Aooga]

Abyss, on 16 November 2010 - 03:47 PM, said:

Anyone else think the 'show up and convince me not to break the seals' thing is just an excuse to prompt Egwene to gather all the monarchs so Rand can give them a 'peace or else' speach?

haven't read the whole thread and so not sure if this idea has been discussed further up, but would like to share my thoughts. By the way, I just finished reading ToM and tGS back to back recently. Was waiting till series is definitely close to completion before I stepped in to WoT again.

So moving along. This whole section was awesome because of Rand's clear manipulation of the Aes Sedai. He was baiting them but not to gather the monarchs and their armies (he can imperiously command them to do that himself because "I'm the Goddamn Dragon"). No he was baiting the Aes Sedai themselves.

Rand knows he needs the Aes Sedai or rather, large nummber of female channelers for implementing Lews Therin's original plan to seal the bore, else he's just doomed to repeat the same mistakes and get Saidan tainted again.

No he needs the Aes Sedai and so imagine what would be the best way to ensure their prescence at The Last Battle:

Rand: I want the entire White Tower to show up when/where/why I say. [/imperious tone]
Egwene: You don't command Aes Sedai [/imperious bitch tone]

or
Rand: Please help me. puhleeeeese.
Egwene: We'll think about it [/imperious bitch tone]

So instead..

Rand: oh hai, btw i'm gone kickstart Armageddon this time this place with or without youse. Have a nice day *wink*
Egwene: wtf! we must gather all the armies of the world and be there in force to stop this madness [/imperious bitch tone]


Egwene totally bought it and Rand will not only have the Aes Sedai present but the added bonus that she saved him the hassle of bullying the world leaders into mobilizing by doing it herself.

I wonder what other outcome is posisble when you have a teenager dealing with a man who has technically experienced 450+ years of life(sic) as not only a powerful channeller in a more enlightened time but a world leader for most of it. Silly girl Amyrlin doesn't stand a chance....and shouldn't.

This post has been edited by Aooga: 17 September 2012 - 11:38 AM