[Silchas Ruin]

Omtose, on 02 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

Serc, on 01 December 2010 - 08:12 PM, said:

Quote

...Liu Zong's officer Wen Ping secretly defected and then set fires...

Quote

...while we work our navy into fighting condition and recruit more men...

Quote

"...I propose that you send me to Shang Yong to exchange formalities with Huang Zhong. I believe I can persuade him and Liu Biao's former commanders to make common cause with us against Yuan Shao. Huang Zhong's cooperation would provide a firm basis for our grand strategy."...

Heavy emphasis on recruitment and allying, right there, not to mention the fact that it has some kind of effect on "grand strategies" (see Operations).
I would imagine that means Operations can be improved by recruiting people to your team, or at least that seems to be the subtext here.
If a recruitment mechanic is in play, a large number of killing roles would counteract that too much, so I figure there's only one or two one-shot killers, if any at all.

Thought this might further the idea that Serc was a YS recruiter.

Good find

[Tulas Shorn]

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 11:04 AM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

Looking at the wiki for Liu Biao tells me that he once had an alliance with Yuan Shao against his brother Yuan Shu. Not sure how that helps...

Does this also compute with the fact that Yuan Shao actively replaced Cao Cao in D'rek's ME Mafia version?

Liu Biao was scum in one of the minis, and was killed off.
his relative explicitly named HZ as a hero, when he stood up against Yuan Shao in his death scene.

it's a safe bet that he was with Huang Zhong.
I'm on my lunch break, catching up

Liu Bei was the scum of the Rot3K chapter 4.

Liu Biao is a different dude who appeared briefly in Rot3K chapter 3.

and died, presumably?

[Kessobahn]

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

OK ... that was a very, very quick speed-lynch of Liosan. Understandable, given the lateness in the Day - hell, it could have just as easily been me. If it had been earlier, it would have been suspicious, and probably directed, but it's very hard to tell with time winding down.

I'm really trying to avoid reading too much into the scenes. Or maybe I'm just being lazy because of all the Chinese names.

I'm not going to speculate on numbers distribution at this point. It could be a YS majority of low-powered Roles ... it could be a YS minority of high-powered Roles and recruitment capability. There's absolutely no way to know (well, for anyone who's not actually in that faction).

This has the look of a : "Hey look I am here posting!!, now back to lurking" type of Post.

Everything you've posted on this page looks like that.

[Tulas Shorn]

Ruse, on 02 December 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

From reading the op it didn't seem like recruiting rather an ability to switch sides. From what I remember from other games where that has been used. It is either an ability that has a switch (some thing happens) or it is a choice that certain players have. I don't believe that this game is suppose to have a high tmdi so I would go with certain players having choices. But this is just conjecture.

the "classic" turncoat mechanic comes form m+p games. the player thinks he's RI, but when targetted by scum, instead of dying he becomes a symp.

there are a number of ways this can be incorporated into this game. I can see finders getting an option to "defect" for instance.

[Korabas]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

OK ... that was a very, very quick speed-lynch of Liosan. Understandable, given the lateness in the Day - hell, it could have just as easily been me. If it had been earlier, it would have been suspicious, and probably directed, but it's very hard to tell with time winding down.

I'm really trying to avoid reading too much into the scenes. Or maybe I'm just being lazy because of all the Chinese names.

I'm not going to speculate on numbers distribution at this point. It could be a YS majority of low-powered Roles ... it could be a YS minority of high-powered Roles and recruitment capability. There's absolutely no way to know (well, for anyone who's not actually in that faction).

This has the look of a : "Hey look I am here posting!!, now back to lurking" type of Post.

Everything you've posted on this page looks like that.

Ooooh, snarky.

[Kessobahn]

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

But here, we've got an open alliance between two factions against YS. And YS is most likely to be able to recruit, and I think Serc was that recruiter - admittedly based solely on his title. And I think Korabas' response to Serc's death is extremely telling - especially the way he tried to play down the importance of Serc's Role title. Korabas is very obviously YS. And I think a majority of players don't want to see them expand.


Vote Korabas

Wait a sec...... you vote because I refuse to go around giving high fives to all the other jokers because someone's flavor title may point at him having a certain role?

I always thought it was prudent to use a WCS unless you have absolute proof, I must not have gotten that memo that this had changed...

Who said YS having recruiting was WCS? You're overreacting rather defensively.

I merely proposed it as one of the two possibilities - a smaller faction with recruiting, or a larger faction relying on numbers for balance. Neither is necessarily worse than the other.

[Silchas Ruin]

Ok all caught up. Sorry for the spam, but at work it's much easier for me to post in short spurts. Things I have noticed:

Ruse was low poster and is now a mid poster. Other than twat calling and past game speculation and calling others out, he hasn't done much. Way to look busy big dog.
Korabas started both trains. This leads me to believe he is very aware of at least his leader, and makes him likely not one of the three head honcho's
Kesso, had basically nothing till his Korabas vote, and while I am not sure of his reasoning at least he posted something.
Korabas' "STFU" post to tiamatha was very telling.


I haven't decided where i am going to vote yet, but I am leaning towards Tiamatha. I could see a rashan lynch, as his play has been very erratic and his outright declaration that he is anti-YS would hurt both his team, as well as the YS faction. I could also see a Mockra lynch, he raged at almost being lynched, which suggests a power role, and was defended by (Rashan?).

I am not sure... Lynching suspected power roles at this point can go both ways when you can't be sure who is on your team. I generally like to leave that up to the big wigs with the powerful NA's

[Kessobahn]

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well, I wish I had something more to say ... but besides Korabas' obvious alignment, and Ruse's lashing out to stir things up ... nothing comes up.

And I can sympathize somewhat with Tiamatha's posting pattern, of only a moderately small number of analytical posts. That's my usual style, especially in a faction game, where it's hard to dig into other people's posts and possible motivations without giving away too much about yourself.

This is his first post since the last one I posted. Still laying low.

Also, no - it wasn't. There are a couple more after that you saw fit to ignore.

And "not being available to play at the same time as everyone else" is not the same as "laying low." There's usually a massive burst of posting a few hours before I get out of bed, due to time zones. So I'm not around for give-and-take.

[Korabas]

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 01:10 PM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

That is very true Korabas, but am I reading you correctly in saying that it's best to get rid of him regardless of who you are based on his potential to fuck things up? Not sure I agree with that.

You're misunderstanding me on that front. I'm not advocating lynching him just because he's inexperienced and may do damage to his own side.
However, and that might all just be my own private paranoia, as I said on the previous page, I do think there is the possibility of a connection between him, Mockra and Serc:

Serc more or less politely refused to lynch Mockra but showed no such qualms with Liosan;
Serc came to Rashan's rescue when Ruse attacked Rashan;
Rashan was hesitant to vote Mockra and removed quickly, saying Mockra provided content as opposed to posts while Mockra was still ranting.

Given that we know Serc's alignment, a lynch on a suspected allegiance might just give an indication of who is siding with whom, and I am not at all opposed to get a read on how the field is split.

I am not trying to make this a Korabas post fest, but his posts are opinionated, i like that. This post I agree with to an extent and the logic is sound, EXCEPT for the fact that we don't know many of the people on our team. It's all well and good to try to draw connections like this when we know who is on our team, but in this setup, as D'rek made very clear, not everyone knows their leader, or even anyone on their team.

thanks for the praise. As for not knowing the team, I guess most of us know that feeling.
I think there's a bit of a circle... A knows B, B knows C, C knows A.
With a faction that's bigger, like I expect YS to be, maybe 1 and 2 know 3, 4 and 5 know 6, 3 and 6 know 7. Or something.

[Korabas]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:34 PM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

But here, we've got an open alliance between two factions against YS. And YS is most likely to be able to recruit, and I think Serc was that recruiter - admittedly based solely on his title. And I think Korabas' response to Serc's death is extremely telling - especially the way he tried to play down the importance of Serc's Role title. Korabas is very obviously YS. And I think a majority of players don't want to see them expand.


Vote Korabas

Wait a sec...... you vote because I refuse to go around giving high fives to all the other jokers because someone's flavor title may point at him having a certain role?

I always thought it was prudent to use a WCS unless you have absolute proof, I must not have gotten that memo that this had changed...

Who said YS having recruiting was WCS? You're overreacting rather defensively.

I merely proposed it as one of the two possibilities - a smaller faction with recruiting, or a larger faction relying on numbers for balance. Neither is necessarily worse than the other.

With going from a WCS I meant Serc NOT being the recruiter or another big honcho, as several of you seem to think. But that was considered downplaying his importance by you.

[Silchas Ruin]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

OK ... that was a very, very quick speed-lynch of Liosan. Understandable, given the lateness in the Day - hell, it could have just as easily been me. If it had been earlier, it would have been suspicious, and probably directed, but it's very hard to tell with time winding down.

I'm really trying to avoid reading too much into the scenes. Or maybe I'm just being lazy because of all the Chinese names.

I'm not going to speculate on numbers distribution at this point. It could be a YS majority of low-powered Roles ... it could be a YS minority of high-powered Roles and recruitment capability. There's absolutely no way to know (well, for anyone who's not actually in that faction).

This has the look of a : "Hey look I am here posting!!, now back to lurking" type of Post.

Everything you've posted on this page looks like that.

Except that i have actually read the thread and commented on it rather than making a vauge synopsis, saying that you are being lazy, and saying that you won't speculate.

[Tulas Shorn]

that's all the time i've got for now. back in a few hours

[Silchas Ruin]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 02 December 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well, I wish I had something more to say ... but besides Korabas' obvious alignment, and Ruse's lashing out to stir things up ... nothing comes up.

And I can sympathize somewhat with Tiamatha's posting pattern, of only a moderately small number of analytical posts. That's my usual style, especially in a faction game, where it's hard to dig into other people's posts and possible motivations without giving away too much about yourself.

This is his first post since the last one I posted. Still laying low.

Also, no - it wasn't. There are a couple more after that you saw fit to ignore.

And "not being available to play at the same time as everyone else" is not the same as "laying low." There's usually a massive burst of posting a few hours before I get out of bed, due to time zones. So I'm not around for give-and-take.

Sorry, you are right I missed these 2.

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:11 AM, said:

Omtose, on 02 December 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

Oh good, night actions are resolved right before I head out. Interesting, one dead from HZ and one dead from YS. Any idea on what role Serc might have had?

...And Mockra, you do realize that what you just said seems to be advertising yourself to be HZ or ZX?

In a game where so far the two allied factions are thinking of themselves as being town, as opposed to YS being scum (and I've seen this line of thinking a lot), that's not exactly a giveaway.

And Serc sounds like a Recruiter. If so, YS just got a kick in the nuts, as I'm leaning more and more towards them being Cult-like (even if the language of the narrative is more militaresque, talking about infiltrators and spies and traitors and whatnot).

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 04:34 PM, said:

... it's going to die off again now that I'm here, isn't it?

I am not trying to get into a content war here, you have since stepped up the posting, I was posting as I read and didn't see all the others. Carry on.

[Path-Shaper]

Knowing that a mighty naval force would be the key to conquering Shang Yong and pushing on to Han Zhong, Yuan Shao had constructed a naval camp at the newly-conquered Xiang Yang. Among the many Jingzhou officers who surrendered, Wen Ping and Zhang Yun were well-known expert naval commanders. He commissioned them as chief naval commanders and entrusted them with training his northern forces in marine combat. The two commanders set up a row of twenty-four water lanes for communication; the larger boats formed the outer rim, enclosing the smaller like a city wall. At night the torches lit up the sky and river, while on land the camps, which stetched for three hundred li, sent up smoke and fire day and night.

Spies reported on the layout of the camp to Zhang Xiu's forces. The commanders were shocked: "With such an effectively orgnized naval force, and so many soldiers, how can we hope to overcome them?" Jia Xu laughed and replied, "Have no fear, gentlemen, I will set Yuan Shao's naval forces into disarray without loosing a single arrow!" The next day, Jia Xu sailed a small boat close to Xiang Yang to observe the enemy naval camp, and made sure that Yuan Shao's command tent could spot him observing. That evening, Yuan Shao conferred with his commanders: "The enemy has observed our camp with ease, but we know little of their own." "Your troubles are over, Your Excellency," said Peng Ji, an advisor. "Jia Xu and I were acquainted as children, but he is unaware that I am serving as a military advisor. I will go west, pretending to be arriving from the court, and while reminiscing will gather all the intelligence you need!"

So Jia Xu and Peng Ji's secret plots were each begun, but who would triumph in the battle of wits?

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 02 December 2010 - 07:51 PM

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 17 hours and 48 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Emurlahn, Galain, Kessobahn, Korabas, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Korabas ( Kessobahn )

Players not voted: Emurlahn, Galain, Korabas, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

[Ruse]

Tulas Shorn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

Ruse, on 02 December 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

From reading the op it didn't seem like recruiting rather an ability to switch sides. From what I remember from other games where that has been used. It is either an ability that has a switch (some thing happens) or it is a choice that certain players have. I don't believe that this game is suppose to have a high tmdi so I would go with certain players having choices. But this is just conjecture.

the "classic" turncoat mechanic comes form m+p games. the player thinks he's RI, but when targetted by scum, instead of dying he becomes a symp.

there are a number of ways this can be incorporated into this game. I can see finders getting an option to "defect" for instance.

I could see either of those possibilities or since this is a continuing game where certain things are going to happen. Some people get the option to defect if such and such falls(person or town).

I find the classic cult recruiting (Where one player targets another player then player b is on player a's team) to be a very doubtful mechanic in this game.

[Ruse]

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

Knowing that a mighty naval force would be the key to conquering Shang Yong and pushing on to Han Zhong, Yuan Shao had constructed a naval camp at the newly-conquered Xiang Yang. Among the many Jingzhou officers who surrendered, Wen Ping and Zhang Yun were well-known expert naval commanders. He commissioned them as chief naval commanders and entrusted them with training his northern forces in marine combat. The two commanders set up a row of twenty-four water lanes for communication; the larger boats formed the outer rim, enclosing the smaller like a city wall. At night the torches lit up the sky and river, while on land the camps, which stetched for three hundred li, sent up smoke and fire day and night.

Spies reported on the layout of the camp to Zhang Xiu's forces. The commanders were shocked: "With such an effectively orgnized naval force, and so many soldiers, how can we hope to overcome them?" Jia Xu laughed and replied, "Have no fear, gentlemen, I will set Yuan Shao's naval forces into disarray without loosing a single arrow!" The next day, Jia Xu sailed a small boat close to Xiang Yang to observe the enemy naval camp, and made sure that Yuan Shao's command tent could spot him observing. That evening, Yuan Shao conferred with his commanders: "The enemy has observed our camp with ease, but we know little of their own." "Your troubles are over, Your Excellency," said Peng Ji, an advisor. "Jia Xu and I were acquainted as children, but he is unaware that I am serving as a military advisor. I will go west, pretending to be arriving from the court, and while reminiscing will gather all the intelligence you need!"

So Jia Xu and Peng Ji's secret plots were each begun, but who would triumph in the battle of wits?

Ohhhh intrigue.

[Korabas]

Ruse, on 02 December 2010 - 07:53 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

Knowing that a mighty naval force would be the key to conquering Shang Yong and pushing on to Han Zhong, Yuan Shao had constructed a naval camp at the newly-conquered Xiang Yang. Among the many Jingzhou officers who surrendered, Wen Ping and Zhang Yun were well-known expert naval commanders. He commissioned them as chief naval commanders and entrusted them with training his northern forces in marine combat. The two commanders set up a row of twenty-four water lanes for communication; the larger boats formed the outer rim, enclosing the smaller like a city wall. At night the torches lit up the sky and river, while on land the camps, which stetched for three hundred li, sent up smoke and fire day and night.

Spies reported on the layout of the camp to Zhang Xiu's forces. The commanders were shocked: "With such an effectively orgnized naval force, and so many soldiers, how can we hope to overcome them?" Jia Xu laughed and replied, "Have no fear, gentlemen, I will set Yuan Shao's naval forces into disarray without loosing a single arrow!" The next day, Jia Xu sailed a small boat close to Xiang Yang to observe the enemy naval camp, and made sure that Yuan Shao's command tent could spot him observing. That evening, Yuan Shao conferred with his commanders: "The enemy has observed our camp with ease, but we know little of their own." "Your troubles are over, Your Excellency," said Peng Ji, an advisor. "Jia Xu and I were acquainted as children, but he is unaware that I am serving as a military advisor. I will go west, pretending to be arriving from the court, and while reminiscing will gather all the intelligence you need!"

So Jia Xu and Peng Ji's secret plots were each begun, but who would triumph in the battle of wits?

Ohhhh intrigue.

It gives us a few new names on the YS side, too. Wen Ping we knew about, but Jia Xu is a new one, as is Zhang yun. ZX also has a third name, after himself and Zhuge Liu: Jia Xu.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 02 December 2010 - 07:55 PM

[Path-Shaper]

I'm pretty sure every name in that scene has come up before, though not necessarily in this game.


(That or I just like making you run off to re-read previous games)

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 02 December 2010 - 07:57 PM

[Korabas]

Path-Shaper, on 02 December 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure every name in that scene has come up before, though not necessarily in this game.


(That or I just like making you run off to re-read previous games)

Do I win if I find a name not yet heard of?