[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 19 hours and 45 minutes remaining
12 Players still alive: Emurlahn, Galain, Kessobahn, Korabas, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Korabas ( Kessobahn )

Players not voted: Emurlahn, Galain, Korabas, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

[Silchas Ruin]

Sweet Jesus yu folks have been busy. 4 pages to catch up on. I am at work so it's going to take me a while.. i'll probably go DKT style and post thoughts as I read the thread. Much easier that way and more condusive to how I can play right now.

[Silchas Ruin]

Korabas, on 01 December 2010 - 11:14 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 December 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

The roles I think that may not be able to move, are the support roles. So leaders and healers and possibly guards.

Some suggestion that if you can move, you should try to minimise the risk by sticking to a satelite town, but that means before even other action come into account you are reducing the chance of a successful action due to not occupying the superior position.

In the early Yuan Shau will want to take the superior ground which would maximise their abilities especially if they are killers, in the end game they might retreat back to a satellite town but the allies would then have to move into the central town so as to be able to use their own abilities successfully against Yuan Shau.

The only reason why it to the advantage of staying where you are, is if you were to move it would count as a NA.you can get a extra NA compared to anyone who moves, but they will make up the loss of the NA by increasing their chance of a successful NA.

Damn man, you're scary.


Shit is spraying from the fan in a gazillion directions and you ignore it all, put up an umbrella and talk about stuff left alone by everyone else for the past twelve hours, and for a good reason?

Also, what the fuck about 'superior ground', 'retreat'? Aside from them being rather meaningless terms, all in all, that requires a lot of communication.... and you seem very far in your theories on what Yuan Shao can do. I repeat: WTF? Either you are smoking dope, or you know more than any of us (or at the least, anyone else has revealed on thread), or you have a mind that is best turned toward solving a rubix cube in 19 actions. Either you are stupidly revealing yourself as someone who knows what an Operations dude can do, or you are building a smoke screen the size of the Hoover Dam. in both cases, you are quite dangerous.

Moving counts as the equivalent of a Day action per the OP, by the way.

Does this look like a 'STFU i know you are on my team and you are talking WAY TO MUCH" post? or is that just me?

[Silchas Ruin]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

OK ... that was a very, very quick speed-lynch of Liosan. Understandable, given the lateness in the Day - hell, it could have just as easily been me. If it had been earlier, it would have been suspicious, and probably directed, but it's very hard to tell with time winding down.

I'm really trying to avoid reading too much into the scenes. Or maybe I'm just being lazy because of all the Chinese names.

I'm not going to speculate on numbers distribution at this point. It could be a YS majority of low-powered Roles ... it could be a YS minority of high-powered Roles and recruitment capability. There's absolutely no way to know (well, for anyone who's not actually in that faction).

This has the look of a : "Hey look I am here posting!!, now back to lurking" type of Post. Will be interesting to see what he brings to the table in the next 3 pages.

[Silchas Ruin]

Mockra, on 02 December 2010 - 05:44 AM, said:

Woot! Go team!

Well this seemed forced...

[Silchas Ruin]

This post comes off as very defensive when , to me ,it looked like there wasn't much to be defensive against. For some reson I get the feeling of "feeling the heat" or defensivenes from Korabas' posts... maybe its in my head.

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:

Rashan, on 02 December 2010 - 11:44 AM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 11:02 AM, said:

Rashan, on 02 December 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

okay not baddie. "enemy" is that a better word? YS are the enemy primarily are they not? and could enemy be classed as baddie? we are routing out the other team aren't we?

YS is only the enemy if you are one of the other two factions.
ZX and ZH are the enemy if you are with YS.

Now, here is some free advice, as you are either completely new, relatively or not new at all but pretending:

It is generally a VERY BAD idea to hint you are not with XYZ in a faction game, especially in the early stages, let alone state that explicitly like you have been doing consistently - you want to keep all options open.
Regardless of what side you are on and whether or not they have a majority in either numbers or night actions, you WILL make a target out of yourself for the other faction(s), who have nothing to lose and a lot to gain in removing you.

Honestly, the way you are trying to seem on the (EDIT:) in your words non-scum/enemy/good/ZX-ZH side is quite cramped and leads me to suspect you are anything but. Moreso because IF your own team knows you are really on their side, there will be no collateral damage through night actions as a result.

only a YS player would say this, there are two armies against one here.

And none of us know the exact sizes of each faction. As I said before, I highly doubt YS is outnumbered roughly 2 to 1 by the other two.

Quote

I would be targeted by a YS player at the moment because i am building cases and giving my allegiance.

Ehm, no. Your entire outlook is faulty.
This is a faction game where everyone is roled to an extent and everyone has to take out the other side. YS is just as hard trying to find out who are the power players on the HZ/XZ side as they are trying to find out who are YS and what they can do. It isn't like YS profit more from smoke screens than the other two factions, D'rek made very clear that few know their leaders - what all sides are striving for, is to NOT get recognized as who they are by the enemy side, while having a clear view on who is aligned with each faction.

If you are on the side of the 2Zs, then imho you are doing them a disservice by proclaiming your alignment.

Quote

]if you were not with YS you would sound me out so that everyone can take a look at me.

If YS were taking you as seriously as a danger to them as you take yourself, they'd have offed you, if they have kills.
May I remind you of the fact that so far the only kill we have seen, was performed on a YS player by what seems to be a HZ player?

Quote

you build 2 trains and got someone lynched

I did not build trains. There were no convincing arguments, I merely cast a vote and people voted along. They could just as easily have followed Galain in his early vote on Liosan, the arguments were roughly the same. Lowposters seldom get cases that make a distinction between them as to why lynching the one is better than lynching the other, hence the easy switch by Galain, myself and the third guy (Omtose?) who was on both trains from Mockra to Liosan.

,

Quote

i haven't looked at you too much because you have been contributing quite well, but I will turn my gaze towards you and see what you have been contributing.

Wow. You know, everyone probably appreciates your energetic approach and enthousiasm, but how much of a difference did you really make so far? Your reason for wanting to lynch Ruse is mostly because he made a slightly disparaging remark of your 'I'm so helpful!' post. The only one who agreed was Serc. Who turned out to be YS, the faction you are crusading against.

Quote

at the same time, it isn't 3 factions all against each other, there are 2 against YS.

Open door much? I don't need that explanation, I put it up myself with startling regularity on day 1.

Quote

Yes there are secondary conditions but this only matters towards the end of the game. the primary goal is for people to kill YS or YS to kill everyone else.

See above.

[Tulas Shorn]

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 11:04 AM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

Looking at the wiki for Liu Biao tells me that he once had an alliance with Yuan Shao against his brother Yuan Shu. Not sure how that helps...

Does this also compute with the fact that Yuan Shao actively replaced Cao Cao in D'rek's ME Mafia version?

Liu Biao was scum in one of the minis, and was killed off.
his relative explicitly named HZ as a hero, when he stood up against Yuan Shao in his death scene.

it's a safe bet that he was with Huang Zhong.
I'm on my lunch break, catching up

[Korabas]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

But here, we've got an open alliance between two factions against YS. And YS is most likely to be able to recruit, and I think Serc was that recruiter - admittedly based solely on his title. And I think Korabas' response to Serc's death is extremely telling - especially the way he tried to play down the importance of Serc's Role title. Korabas is very obviously YS. And I think a majority of players don't want to see them expand.


Vote Korabas

Wait a sec...... you vote because I refuse to go around giving high fives to all the other jokers because someone's flavor title may point at him having a certain role?


I always thought it was prudent to use a WCS unless you have absolute proof, I must not have gotten that memo that this had changed...

This post has been edited by Korabas: 02 December 2010 - 06:56 PM

[Tulas Shorn]

Rashan, on 02 December 2010 - 11:44 AM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 11:02 AM, said:

Rashan, on 02 December 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

okay not baddie. "enemy" is that a better word? YS are the enemy primarily are they not? and could enemy be classed as baddie? we are routing out the other team aren't we?

YS is only the enemy if you are one of the other two factions.
ZX and ZH are the enemy if you are with YS.

Now, here is some free advice, as you are either completely new, relatively or not new at all but pretending:

It is generally a VERY BAD idea to hint you are not with XYZ in a faction game, especially in the early stages, let alone state that explicitly like you have been doing consistently - you want to keep all options open.
Regardless of what side you are on and whether or not they have a majority in either numbers or night actions, you WILL make a target out of yourself for the other faction(s), who have nothing to lose and a lot to gain in removing you.

Honestly, the way you are trying to seem on the (EDIT:) in your words non-scum/enemy/good/ZX-ZH side is quite cramped and leads me to suspect you are anything but. Moreso because IF your own team knows you are really on their side, there will be no collateral damage through night actions as a result.

only a YS player would say this, there are two armies against one here. i would be targeted by a YS player at the moment because i am building cases and giving my allegiance. if you were not with YS you would sound me out so that everyone can take a look at me. you build 2 trains and got someone lynched, i haven't looked at you too much because you have been contributing quite well, but I will turn my gaze towards you and see what you have been contributing. at the same time, it isn't 3 factions all against each other, there are 2 against YS. Yes there are secondary conditions but this only matters towards the end of the game. the primary goal is for people to kill YS or YS to kill everyone else.

except, you know, YS could be as big as the other 2 combined. we don't know numbers (at least I don't, maybe you do and would like to share?), remember? and YS IS the big wasrlord who currently controls 2/3 of the former Empire.

Korabas is right: ambguity is the name of the game in a faction game, and you are failing spectacularly.

[Silchas Ruin]

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 01:10 PM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

That is very true Korabas, but am I reading you correctly in saying that it's best to get rid of him regardless of who you are based on his potential to fuck things up? Not sure I agree with that.

You're misunderstanding me on that front. I'm not advocating lynching him just because he's inexperienced and may do damage to his own side.
However, and that might all just be my own private paranoia, as I said on the previous page, I do think there is the possibility of a connection between him, Mockra and Serc:

Serc more or less politely refused to lynch Mockra but showed no such qualms with Liosan;
Serc came to Rashan's rescue when Ruse attacked Rashan;
Rashan was hesitant to vote Mockra and removed quickly, saying Mockra provided content as opposed to posts while Mockra was still ranting.

Given that we know Serc's alignment, a lynch on a suspected allegiance might just give an indication of who is siding with whom, and I am not at all opposed to get a read on how the field is split.

I am not trying to make this a Korabas post fest, but his posts are opinionated, i like that. This post I agree with to an extent and the logic is sound, EXCEPT for the fact that we don't know many of the people on our team. It's all well and good to try to draw connections like this when we know who is on our team, but in this setup, as D'rek made very clear, not everyone knows their leader, or even anyone on their team. To draw these connections and base anything on them (except for maybe as a loose guide on where to look further) is a tough sell.

[Tulas Shorn]

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

But here, we've got an open alliance between two factions against YS. And YS is most likely to be able to recruit, and I think Serc was that recruiter - admittedly based solely on his title. And I think Korabas' response to Serc's death is extremely telling - especially the way he tried to play down the importance of Serc's Role title. Korabas is very obviously YS. And I think a majority of players don't want to see them expand.


Vote Korabas

Wait a sec...... you vote because I refuse to go around giving high fives to all the other jokers because someone's flavor title may point at him having a certain role?


I always thought it was prudent to use a WCS unless you have absolute proof, I must not have gotten that memo that this had changed...

me neither. do we have a single shred of proof that there will be recruiting in the game to begin wiht?

[Korabas]

Tulas Shorn, on 02 December 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

But here, we've got an open alliance between two factions against YS. And YS is most likely to be able to recruit, and I think Serc was that recruiter - admittedly based solely on his title. And I think Korabas' response to Serc's death is extremely telling - especially the way he tried to play down the importance of Serc's Role title. Korabas is very obviously YS. And I think a majority of players don't want to see them expand.


Vote Korabas

Wait a sec...... you vote because I refuse to go around giving high fives to all the other jokers because someone's flavor title may point at him having a certain role?


I always thought it was prudent to use a WCS unless you have absolute proof, I must not have gotten that memo that this had changed...

me neither. do we have a single shred of proof that there will be recruiting in the game to begin wiht?

the fiction on page two mentions a HZ dude called Wen Ping going over to YS.
There is also a line D'rek posted about how a wise man chooses his own master.

[Silchas Ruin]

Omtose, on 02 December 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

Silchas:

Silchas Ruin, on 01 December 2010 - 08:09 PM, said:

Hello- Back for a bit and all caught up, thoughts:

1. I agree with Serc that operations masters aren't necessarily the leaders
2. I feel those with more defensive abilities will probably be residing on the outskirts, while those with offensive abilities are more likely to play in the middle to ensure action success...of course survivability comes into play so it's really a big ol plate of Wifom
3. I am fine with voting off low ,non contributing posters, there is a difference.
4. I also noticed that Merrid backed off as soon as he was called out and it was definately the first thing that pinged my radar in this game.
5. This is going to be another tough game in terms of train analyzation as OP states not everyone knows who is on their team, makes pisking out teams a bit more difficult.
6. The Cake is a lie

Unless I missed a more recent post (or unless I did the math wrong), he's been gone for ~17 hours. He last checked in around one to vote for Mockra, saying that he'd be back for "a bit". It's hard to know if he was around when things started shifting towards Liosan, though - I wasn't paying any particular attention to how many people were reading the thread at the time. Anyway, other then that, nothing really sticks out - at this point he's just another low poster.

I get on when I can, at this point I have more content that Kess, ruse or Tulas. Your "reread" to this point is basically posting all the low posters posts, with minimal commentary. That isn't content. It sure ups your post count though!

[Silchas Ruin]

Omtose, on 02 December 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

With Rashan constantly harping on Ruse, does anyone get the feeling that Rashan has a finder role, investigated Ruse last night (due to Ruse's attack against him earlier), found out he was an oppossing faction, and is now continuing his assault?

Meh, it seems less and less likely even as I type it, sicne Rashan was talking about Ruse a lot before the lynch yesterday. So, nevermind that I guess, but I'll leave the thought up for people to play with.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a little more from Ruse and Kessobahn.

'Hey Leader! If you have a killing role I think Rashan may be a finder! Not sure, but here are my cleverly disguised thoughts!"

[Tulas Shorn]

hmm

nevertheless, i'm doubtful of direct recruitment. in the Rot3K 3 game, the one where all we did was recruit, your char name changed every time you were recruited. here, it appears we recpresent a continuity with a commanding officer defecting. means there is more choice, imho.

i'd be more inclined to think of a "turncoat" mechanic, but we haven't used that here in AGES.....

[Silchas Ruin]

Emurlahn, on 02 December 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 December 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

If you have the ability to move then it best to move to the central town and then increase the chance of a successful NA.

Tiamatha, on 01 December 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

Some suggestion that if you can move, you should try to minimise the risk by sticking to a satelite town,

The only reason why it to the advantage of staying where you are, is if you were to move it would count as a NA.you can get a extra NA compared to anyone who moves, but they will make up the loss of the NA by increasing their chance of a successful NA.

hacked away through these quotes to make my point,

The first quote says move to the middle, the 2nd quote says move to the satalites....

also the OP says nice and clear that moving is a day action, yet he says it will remove his NA

this is a good find, it might be nothing, or it might be that he didn't read the OP. regardless, Tiamatha isn't paying attention.

[Path-Shaper]

Tulas Shorn, on 02 December 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Korabas, on 02 December 2010 - 11:04 AM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

Looking at the wiki for Liu Biao tells me that he once had an alliance with Yuan Shao against his brother Yuan Shu. Not sure how that helps...

Does this also compute with the fact that Yuan Shao actively replaced Cao Cao in D'rek's ME Mafia version?

Liu Biao was scum in one of the minis, and was killed off.
his relative explicitly named HZ as a hero, when he stood up against Yuan Shao in his death scene.

it's a safe bet that he was with Huang Zhong.
I'm on my lunch break, catching up

Liu Bei was the scum of the Rot3K chapter 4.

Liu Biao is a different dude who appeared briefly in Rot3K chapter 3.

[Silchas Ruin]

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 03:21 PM, said:

Well overall, I feel that Rashan's vote and subsequent removal on Mockra is the most suspicious thing I've seen so far.

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

i like some of the posts above, and I am very skeptical of Ruse at this moment in time, however I mentioned earlier that it would be good to get a lynch on day one. there has been alot of interesting posts to read through since i left work, how many votes is that for Mockra.... 6? since he voted himself and ranted at us all in a manner that strikes me like he is a team leader like Serc explains or theories hmm

i am going to bed now, got work in the morning which means i'm up at 6am, i need my sleep I will be back on tomorrow at 8:30


Vote Mockra

He agrees with everyone's thoughts on Mockra, especially Serc who put out the idea he might have a powerful role. Rashan latches on to this for the lynch and that he might be a team leader. Does it occur to him he might be his own team leader? Apparently not.

Mockra, on 01 December 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

Thanks Rashan.

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

Mockra I am going to bed and you just threw a lot of good stuff out. I would be annoyed if I was you and what you say is true. Now that you're playing I will remove my vote, you make good sense, Ruse is on my Radar Silchas and Serc make good points. i hope your not a "baddie"

Remove vote

Vote Ruse

So first he agrees that Mockra is definitely fishy but now he sympathises with him and likes what Mockra is saying? Right. He removes his vote 'now that he's playing' but that wasn't his principal reason for voting, it was because he might be a team leader. I can see Korabas' point in that he looks like Serc's yes man here in that he loyally followed Serc's reasoning twice in roughly ten minutes.

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:

both times, the time i voted you and this time removing the vote there was nothing in between. i removed it before you thanked me after i read what you had said. it looks like i'm waivering here there and everywhere its just that the posts came in between what i wrote.

Four minutes later realises that the vote removal looks suspicious in that there's nothing really in between the vote and the remove, and comes back to clarify. I'm struggling to figure out what he's trying to say but are you claiming cross-post? If so, fine, but it's still fishy as hell, as your reasons don't really match up. I don't really buy the Serc connection though, since you're clearly not on his team, but definitely someone who wasn't thinking for himself there.

This post makes a good point. Rashan has already pointed out that he is a newer player, but the removal and subsequent vote is suspicious.. like a little bit of "oopsies!!" It's just tough to know which side Mockra is on. I know he's not my leader, but that doesn't mean he isn't on my team.

[Ruse]

From reading the op it didn't seem like recruiting rather an ability to switch sides. From what I remember from other games where that has been used. It is either an ability that has a switch (some thing happens) or it is a choice that certain players have. I don't believe that this game is suppose to have a high tmdi so I would go with certain players having choices. But this is just conjecture.

[Silchas Ruin]

Kessobahn, on 02 December 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

Merrid, on 02 December 2010 - 04:36 PM, said:

I'm here, albeit not for all that much longer.

Well, I wish I had something more to say ... but besides Korabas' obvious alignment, and Ruse's lashing out to stir things up ... nothing comes up.

And I can sympathize somewhat with Tiamatha's posting pattern, of only a moderately small number of analytical posts. That's my usual style, especially in a faction game, where it's hard to dig into other people's posts and possible motivations without giving away too much about yourself.

This is his first post since the last one I posted. Still laying low.